New x5's a bargain at twice the price.

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sjsfiveo

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New x5's a bargain at twice the price.
« on: 11 Sep 2020, 12:39 am »
Have had my X5's for close to 2 months now and without out a doubt the best speakers I've owned. I have had my share of speakers, Martin Logans, Focal Kanta's, 1.7i and 3.6r Magnepans, Emerald Physics, Triangle and Tannoy's. None of them provided a complete sonic package like the x5's due. Beautiful clarity and detail with a sound stage a mile wide with incredible defined imagining. Not only do you get sonic enjoyment your rewarded with a visual show as well. Bass is tight fast and plentiful these speakers have no problem pressurizing the 16x32 room there in and they play with such an effortlessness to them. They do take some time to break in and smooth out, when i first got them I was thinking to myself I waited 8 weeks for these! but after quick call to Clayton he reassured me just give them a few hours and some volume and you will be rewarded and boy was I ever. I couldn't be happier, I cant wait to get home now and turn on the stereo.
  My front end consists of an Aurender N100H streamer, Ideon Master Time Blackstar edition Reclocker, Aesthetix Pandora Eclipse edition DAC with NOS gold pin tubes, Nat Audio Magnetic Preamp and a Audio Research Reference 75SE tube amp. Wireworld platinum USB's, Analysis Plus Silver Apex XLR's and Verastarr copper foil speaker cables. One last thing Clayton is just a fantastic human, he was an absolute pleasure to deal with start to finsh, so if your on the fence there worth it take the plunge. 


Rushca01

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Re: New x5's a bargain at twice the price.
« Reply #1 on: 11 Sep 2020, 01:11 am »
Thank you for the review.  As I have mentioned in other threads I’m still on the fence and this certainly helps especially considering you have compared them directly to the Focal Kanta whic are on my list.  I wish there were more YouTube reviews on the x series even considering how “poor” the sound transfer is. 

morganc

Re: New x5's a bargain at twice the price.
« Reply #2 on: 11 Sep 2020, 01:20 am »
Any tips to share with tweaking your bass pressurization?  I have a similar size Room and have not been able to get the bass dialed in that well except at high volumes. Amp has plenty of power.  Have moved speakers up to 4 feet out into the room and played around from 2-4 feet. 

sjsfiveo

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Re: New x5's a bargain at twice the price.
« Reply #3 on: 11 Sep 2020, 01:38 am »
I'm 44 inchs away from the front wall and 18 inches from the side walls. Where is the volume set on your bass amp? I'm about 8-8.5 outta 10.

morganc

Re: New x5's a bargain at twice the price.
« Reply #4 on: 11 Sep 2020, 02:33 am »
I've got them at 10!  But my sidewalks are 5 feet away

Mr. Big

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Re: New x5's a bargain at twice the price.
« Reply #5 on: 11 Sep 2020, 11:29 am »
Closer to the side walls. You no reinforcement. The woofer wave is front and back not the sides so try to 24" from the sidewall and see what happens.

sjsfiveo

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Re: New x5's a bargain at twice the price.
« Reply #6 on: 11 Sep 2020, 11:30 am »
So your speakers are only 5-6 feet apart?

bbybaudio

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Re: New x5's a bargain at twice the price.
« Reply #7 on: 11 Sep 2020, 02:10 pm »
The X5s are the best speakers I have heard. Was looking to buy Focal Sopra IIs or Wilson Sophia IIIs, both great speakers. What convinced me to go OB was listening to NOLAs at my friends house. NOLAs are OB for midrange and tweeter with large enclosed woofer.  To me, the X5s have great dynamics, are musical and lifelike with the great lower midrange and bass.

My X5s are 38" from rear wall and 5ft or 7 ft from sidewalls. Subwoofer amp is set at 7.5 or 8 and I do not lack for bass at all. I used the Stereophile Test CD to adjust bass response. I sit about 10.5 ft back and speakers are 8.5 ft apart. Depending on the recording, bass is full at low volume and at medium volumes I can feel the subterranean notes.

Roy Sq

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Re: New x5's a bargain at twice the price.
« Reply #8 on: 18 Sep 2020, 11:14 am »
I would like to know more about the ability of the powered woofers to add a little extra thump to the room.  I heard the M3S turbo's last year and liked a lot of what I heard.  The bass was very tuneful (remarkable) but it did not have that oomph down low that I like.  Would be interested to hear others thoughts with these.  Thanks.

bbybaudio

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Re: New x5's a bargain at twice the price.
« Reply #9 on: 18 Sep 2020, 01:28 pm »
Looking again at others posts, the other night I turned the subwoofer amp up from 8 to 9 out of 10. Played a number of tracks and felt that I was on the verge of too much oomph. The Erykah Badu album, Baduizm, which is well recorded and has more than ample bass, had too much for me with the amp set to 9.  However, everyone has their own preferences, evidenced by the cars that have the subwoofers thumping at crazy loud levels. To me, the X5s have more than enough oomph.

sjsfiveo

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Re: New x5's a bargain at twice the price.
« Reply #10 on: 19 Sep 2020, 04:20 pm »
I like bass and I find with the bass turned all the way up it’s a touch to much, It hits  hard but fully controlled. I have never wished for more or wished I hadn’t sold my pair of Rel s.h.o subs. The beauty is there full adjustable to the users liking. I looked at the M3 but after talking with Clayton and going over my electronics with him he suggested the X5’s due to my Tube amp. I have an Audio Research Ref. 75se he thought I’d like the bass control of the X5’s better because of the built in bass amp.

alex_g_3

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Re: New x5's a bargain at twice the price.
« Reply #11 on: 21 Oct 2020, 03:03 am »
What Tannoy's did you have ?

I'm thinking of making the switch.  I've currently got the Legacy Eaton Standmounts.

Could you compare and contract between the X5 and the Tannoy ?

dealaddict

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Re: New x5's a bargain at twice the price.
« Reply #12 on: 31 Oct 2020, 08:50 pm »
I also feel the bass is missing some Oomph.  I only have two speakers, the X5 and Harbeth 40.1.  The 40.1 has significantly more oomph.  It has a 11.8” woofer, so, comparable to the 12” in X5.  What I don’t understand is that, I got more oomph driving the 40.1 with a 75W amp.  The X5 has a 250W Hypex Fusion NCore plate amp and I tune it all the way up.  I only listen to Jazz, so, for the bass, I am referring to the double bass and drums.  But I have to be clear, the bass for the X5 is good, much better than other speakers I previously owned.  I use a Luxkit A3300 preamp where I can tune the bass.  If I tune the bass up by 1 click, I got something similar to the 40.1, so, i just wish to have a bit more oomph, not a lot.  I am curious, is that we can adjust the amp?  I expect more bass with a 250w for one 12” driver.  I think the current max setting should be around 70%, so, there is more room to increase the bass.

TomS

Re: New x5's a bargain at twice the price.
« Reply #13 on: 31 Oct 2020, 10:29 pm »
I also feel the bass is missing some Oomph.  I only have two speakers, the X5 and Harbeth 40.1.  The 40.1 has significantly more oomph.  It has a 11.8” woofer, so, comparable to the 12” in X5.  What I don’t understand is that, I got more oomph driving the 40.1 with a 75W amp.  The X5 has a 250W Hypex Fusion NCore plate amp and I tune it all the way up.  I only listen to Jazz, so, for the bass, I am referring to the double bass and drums.  But I have to be clear, the bass for the X5 is good, much better than other speakers I previously owned.  I use a Luxkit A3300 preamp where I can tune the bass.  If I tune the bass up by 1 click, I got something similar to the 40.1, so, i just wish to have a bit more oomph, not a lot.  I am curious, is that we can adjust the amp?  I expect more bass with a 250w for one 12” driver.  I think the current max setting should be around 70%, so, there is more room to increase the bass.
The Hypex amp and sub are only handling ~90 hz on down so there is a lot of bass content going to the main 12" midbass/midrange driver too. My X5's have plenty of juice, though I have a full set of room treatments as well. In my case, not wanting for anything more. A boxed Harbeth and open baffle X5 interact with the room very differently. I had Focal Sopra No 2's before, and the X5's give up nothing to them in terms of bass oomph. I am a jazz lover too ;-) Perhaps measure your room response with REW to see if there is a dip? Or move your listening chair forward/back to see if there is a better spot for bass? It might not be the same for these 2 speakers.

Jean-Paul

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Re: New x5's a bargain at twice the price.
« Reply #14 on: 1 Nov 2020, 01:03 am »
I think a lot of discussion about bass hinges on the experience each listener brings. Mine is that audiophile speakers are not in the same universe as powered pro monitors in regard to bass weight, power, and slam. I know audiophile speakers often measure quite well frequency response-wise in the low frequencies; the problem is that they just don't sound that way. I listened to passive audiophile speakers for years, unaware of what I was missing. Then I heard a set of JBL LSR6328 monitors and couldn't believe the bass punch and weight that was coming from eight inch woofers. I had never heard anything from audiophile speakers, even large ones, that came close. When a bunch of audiophiles came over to listen they were all asking where the subwoofer was and couldn't believe there wasn't any such thing in the system. So when I hear from audiophiles that there is PLENTY of bass from their full-range electrostatics I just roll my eyes. My guess is that having a passive crossover between power amplifier and woofer somehow robs the sound of the guts and weight you get from a powered monitor where the amp is driving the woofer directly. However, I assumed the X series, which uses a powered woofer, would have those same characteristics. But, according to at least one owner, apparently they don't. I'm puzzled.....

genjamon

Re: New x5's a bargain at twice the price.
« Reply #15 on: 1 Nov 2020, 02:09 am »
OB dipole bass is of different character than monopole bass. It usually doesn’t have the same punchy visceral force that a ported box will produce. That doesn’t mean it will sound light o less voluminous. It just often doesn’t “hit” the same way. But I have heard people say these new Spatial designs find more of a middle ground than most other OB bass designs. I haven’t heard them myself.

TomS

Re: New x5's a bargain at twice the price.
« Reply #16 on: 1 Nov 2020, 02:10 am »
I think a lot of discussion about bass hinges on the experience each listener brings. Mine is that audiophile speakers are not in the same universe as powered pro monitors in regard to bass weight, power, and slam. I know audiophile speakers often measure quite well frequency response-wise in the low frequencies; the problem is that they just don't sound that way. I listened to passive audiophile speakers for years, unaware of what I was missing. Then I heard a set of JBL LSR6328 monitors and couldn't believe the bass punch and weight that was coming from eight inch woofers. I had never heard anything from audiophile speakers, even large ones, that came close. When a bunch of audiophiles came over to listen they were all asking where the subwoofer was and couldn't believe there wasn't any such thing in the system. So when I hear from audiophiles that there is PLENTY of bass from their full-range electrostatics I just roll my eyes. My guess is that having a passive crossover between power amplifier and woofer somehow robs the sound of the guts and weight you get from a powered monitor where the amp is driving the woofer directly. However, I assumed the X series, which uses a powered woofer, would have those same characteristics. But, according to at least one owner, apparently they don't. I'm puzzled.....
Not in the same universe?  :scratch:
The topology, execution, and target market matters. At one time I had JBL M2's with 4 x 500w amplifiers and active XO's in this same room, so I do have experience with varied types. It's an entirely different topology for very unique needs (mastering), and is also far more costly. They could entertain neighbors several houses away if you choose. Its 8" sibling, the JBL 708p, would have done the job just fine too, but still the output isn't needed for my modest room. Sure, for some it's a great option, but even the X5's go quite a bit lower.

So far, I find the X5's bass very satisfying, plenty of weight and slam, but with incredible nuance that I doubt many powered speakers in pro audio could dream of. Certainly the powered woofer helps, though the mid/bass driver to AMT still has a passive XO. It's obviously well executed and the system remains very efficient. It does not require huge power, which is sometimes needed to overcome passive XO losses as well. The drivers in the X5 are not in any way comparable to full range electrostatics either, given their roots in pro audio, and are very robust.

Over the years, Clayton has explored a broad range of passive, fully active (external active xo and amps), fully powered (with xo/amps), and partially powered passive speakers like the X series. He knows the target market well, determined these are a good fit, and executed in a way that they perform very well for the intended home audio market.

glynnw

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Re: New x5's a bargain at twice the price.
« Reply #17 on: 1 Nov 2020, 04:25 am »
All I can talk about are my own experiences.  I used to work at Telarc records (in sales) where we had a CD called RoundUp.  In the first minute or so is a recording of a horse as it runs across the soundstage and then returns.  In the Telarc soundroom running Threshold amps into a pair of Waveform speakers, there was a point where one felt the bass - the room shook as the hooves struck the ground.  Since leaving there I have had many speakers including a pair of powered Bagend 18" subs, a Carver and more, and now I have a pair of Danny Richey's dual 12" servo subs.  Never could I recreate the huge sound we had at Telarc until I bought a pair of X5s.  Using those with the OB subs has finally resulted in my hearing and feeling that deep bass.  While I think the servo subs go noticeably deeper, it is the impact of the subs in the X5s which gets that ground shaking effect.  I cannot technically explain it, but you can certainly feel it. I could easily live with the X5s alone, but I have the servo subs so why not use them too?  BTW, when first introduced as a demo disc at CES in Vegas, the recording of RoundUp blew up a pair of Polk speakers.  We giggled.

morganc

Re: New x5's a bargain at twice the price.
« Reply #18 on: 1 Nov 2020, 05:42 am »
All I can talk about are my own experiences.  I used to work at Telarc records (in sales) where we had a CD called RoundUp.  In the first minute or so is a recording of a horse as it runs across the soundstage and then returns.  In the Telarc soundroom running Threshold amps into a pair of Waveform speakers, there was a point where one felt the bass - the room shook as the hooves struck the ground.  Since leaving there I have had many speakers including a pair of powered Bagend 18" subs, a Carver and more, and now I have a pair of Danny Richey's dual 12" servo subs.  Never could I recreate the huge sound we had at Telarc until I bought a pair of X5s.  Using those with the OB subs has finally resulted in my hearing and feeling that deep bass.  While I think the servo subs go noticeably deeper, it is the impact of the subs in the X5s which gets that ground shaking effect.  I cannot technically explain it, but you can certainly feel it. I could easily live with the X5s alone, but I have the servo subs so why not use them too?  BTW, when first introduced as a demo disc at CES in Vegas, the recording of RoundUp blew up a pair of Polk speakers.  We giggled.

Hi Glynn.
   I too own the X-5's and just built a pair of servo Subs from GR Rsearch.  Can you share your amp settings and crossover points with me?  At least as a starting point for my own tuning?  There are a lot of knobs and gen though I'm far from dialing it in perfectly, I can say that the oomph is definitely present now. 

Early B.

Re: New x5's a bargain at twice the price.
« Reply #19 on: 1 Nov 2020, 07:22 am »
... I have had many speakers including a pair of powered Bagend 18" subs, a Carver and more, and now I have a pair of Danny Richey's dual 12" servo subs.  Never could I recreate the huge sound we had at Telarc until I bought a pair of X5s.  Using those with the OB subs has finally resulted in my hearing and feeling that deep bass.  While I think the servo subs go noticeably deeper, it is the impact of the subs in the X5s which gets that ground shaking effect.  I cannot technically explain it, but you can certainly feel it.

While the deep bass that you feel in your gut is impressive, is it accurate? When I go to a live concert, even in an intimate venue such as a jazz club, I don't feel ground shaking bass. If I hear or feel this reverberation at home, I fix this problem because excessive vibration from the walls and floor has a sound, and it isn't musical. If you want power punches, OB subs may not be your cup of tea. But if you want the most accurate bass on the planet, the trophy goes to OB servo subs.

Glynnw -- I'm guessing your OB subs are overlapping in frequency with the X5's, giving you a huge hump somewhere in the bass region. If you like it, that's great, but likely an anomaly nonetheless.