[swisstrips]

I was originally going to ask "what to get for newbie" etc.. but thought I would ask something a bit different.  I have little to no experience with TT in the context of HiFi.  Like any other component in this hobby there is a ton of minutia to digest, research, ask all the same questions etc..  But I am genuinely interested to see/experience a good TT and sort of see what all the fuss is so to speak.  Ultimately great sound is what we are all after.

I had a cool (to me) mint Yamaha TT (P-520 I think) that I used very minimally (like a half dozen times) with a different rig I had at the time, but gave that to my daughter yrs ago so its been awhile and that is my only foray with TT.

I'm very heavily vested in my digital setup and my rig is pretty solid (pass XA mono's, Atma-Sphere MP3 pre (no phono), Revel Ultima Studio 2's, dedicated / treated room etc..  I don't stream though, and either rip CD's or buy the best digital version I can find and my library is pretty substantial.

The other conundrum that struck me, is besides the expense at getting started in this, is the expense of good albums (opposed to digital downloads/ripping CD's).  That and the small album collection I do have (from way back, maybe 20-40 albums) which are prob in crappy condition, the thought of now re-purchasing the vinyl equiv of the digital I have now (not all of course) seems a bit overwhelming in a way. 

So what to do?  I started looking at some TT and was like ooy, its one thing after another in so far as researching what might be a good purchase, new or used, brands, what's my budget, vintage, modern and all the accessories needed etc......that led me to here.

I don't have a phono pre, but was thinking of borrowing back that Yamaha TT temporarily and see how it goes with my current rig.  I don't know if that TT is junk, decent, great etc.. but would have to get a pre of some sort (don't think I would want to add the phono to my Atma-Sphere at this point) or just get something "decent" and worst case flip it if its not for me. Advice, thoughts?

[mresseguie]

You're not alone. 

You have done a credible job of describing my own situation. However, I do stream - a lot (and thoroughly enjoy the huge selection of titles that my TIDAL premium subscription provides).

I own a crappy used TT with a questionable cartridge/stylus, so I don't even use it. It collects dust in my garage. If I recall correctly, I own 34 LPs. I periodically ponder buying a decent TT and good quality cartridge/stylus. I do not own a phono pre, but <should I someday decide to> would not hesitate to buy one from the guy who built my tube preamps and amplifier (Don Sachs).

Edit: Nearly every time I find myself wondering how much I'm likely to spend on a competent vinyl rig, I tell myself that I can take that money and spend it on significant upgrades to my SW1X DAC in order to achieve that 'almost' vinyl sound. I'm far more likely to upgrade my DAC than invest in vinyl at this point.

I look forward to the well informed replies to your query.

Michael

[twitch54]

Well, you asked for opinions so here's mine........... @ 66 years young I've been at this longer than most and not as long as some. With that being said if I were to start from scratch today would I ?   Nope !!

Good digital has gotten so good that the $$ to do analog right is considerable. Oh sure, one can cobble together a vinyl rig for a grand but is it 'really' gonna compete ? no, no and no !!!

With all this being said I'm not giving up my vinyl setup (VPI Aries3, Super platter, SDS, Benz Micro 'Gullwing', Fosgate Signature phono-pre) anytime soon. I still enjoy the engagement I get from spinning the 1500 (or so) LP's that I own and that's the thing, while my collection is modest, I have them .......

Good luck in which ever way you go !

[toocool4]

It’s hard to know what to say. You need to ask yourself a question, why do I want to get into LP’s? You need to be honest with yourself. If it’s something like the cool hip factor, then not a good enough reason but if it’s some other good reason then give it a try.

If you do decide you want back in, then I say borrow the record player back from your daughter and just live with it for a while. If you then get into it, then it’s worth looking into something better after that.

Good luck.

[timind]

I sold the majority of my vinyl albums (kept 100) along with my turntable years ago, but have had the itch to get back into it a couple times. A while ago I bought a vintage Pioneer turntable and a nice NOS Shure cartridge. It worked fine and sounded great. I probably played 10 albums before the shine wore off.

The conclusion from my trial was: vinyl is not for me. If I want to hear music, I want to hear music, not fiddle with the medium. If you enjoy the ritual, go for it. My opinion is not based at all on the sound quality.

Your idea of giving it a trial is a good one. You can decide if you enjoy the effort needed to listen to an album.

[dpatters]

Unless you have a collection of vinyl I would just stick with digital. It will take a large investment to approach your digital setup. Good vinyl is expensive.

Don P

[WGH]

Unless you have 1,000 albums in storage I would say forgetaboutit. You would need to spend thousands of dollars to get a turntable, cartridge and phono preamp and even then the sound of your digital setup would be better.

I have all the Beatles vinyl albums. I bought them when they were first released and they are still in excellent shape but the sound is horrible compared to the remastered digital albums, I'll never play those vinyl albums again. I also have vinyl from the cool jazz era that sound wonderful. It's always hit and miss whether the vinyl will sound better than the digital because DAC's have improved so much, and with so much new digital music released I can go for months not playing any of my old vinyl, some of which I have heard 100's of times over 50 years. Now I want to hear something new and with digital downloads I can hear it immediately too.

If I was into new vinyl I would have to wait 6 months to order anything new. Records tend to warp in 110 degree delivery trucks. I put a credit card on my car dashboard when I went to the driveup window to buy beer and it melted into a "U".

Does your town have a used record store? Do you have unlimited funds? New vinyl is so expensive you might as well buy a boat instead, you will get more pleasure (and use) from a boat and a it will eventually cost the same as an extensive vinyl library.

[toocool4]

Beatles would sound bad anywhere. 

[swisstrips]

Thanks all who responded thus far, really great info! and does really help me at this point.  It put things into perspective.  The items mentioned kind of summarize where my thought process was headed. 

Certainly not to take anything away from vinyl and individuals who love it as there is no "best" anything.  You build up something that suites your preference, not anyone else's, and hopefully end up with a great sounding and pleasing rig that brings you a lot of enjoyment.  I have done that with my current setup IMO over the last few yrs and have absolutely no desire to dump that.  The vinyl question or interest was really just to try something else, have fun etc.. 

If I had unlimited funds, well then its not a issue, but it would appear on the surface it would potentially become a drain on several fronts.  At least in trying to match my dig front end, which wouldn't have to be the motivation either, but I probably would end up going "there" in the end. 

Nothing wrong with getting something "decent" and just having fun with it, but I guess I would have to keep that in perspective.  Again thanks for the thoughts / opinions

[nlitworld]

Having just been bitten by the vinyl bug and setting up an inexpensive system by most standards and still less than 100 records, my biggest enjoyment comes from the experience you can't replicate with digital. Going to your local record store that smells of musty vinyl and incense and flip through the bins finding some of your favorite records you can't find on digital. Taking them home and sitting down to listen and I mean really listen, it lets you enjoy the experience completely. For me, it became less playing music on the stereo and more experiencing the music. I didn't believe my coworker when he said I'd enjoy vinyl more, but it's true. I listen to the same records more consistently than other digital stuff on my pc.

As for pure sound quality, anymore it's all good once you get away from mp3. Some setups are just good, some are phenomenal, and the same is true for vinyl. But the experience of enjoying the music is a very different story. Whatever lets you enjoy the music. Just my $0.02.

[BruceSB]

Last night I received by refurbished Thorens TD125 turntable back from the HiFi Guru.
He installed it for me and, quite frankly, I was shocked by how good it sounded!!
I have what I consider to be a pretty good CD/SACD player (Halcro) and the vinyl that I played last night sounded considerably better!
Talking about a Cats album that I purchased from an op shop for one dollar when I was in the US, and some original, fifty year old New Seekers albums which I purchased new from the UK back in the day.
Nothing 'audiophile' just plain ordinary vinyl!
Ben (the HiFi Guru) and I had a conversation about the sound and we spoke about how Peter Ledermann from Soundsmith regularly comments about how vinyl has five times the resolution of CD!!!!
Actually, I have heard him say it at a HiFi Show via video link.
The new bearing helped make things extra quiet.
The HiFi Guru favourably compares my refurbished Thorens to $15K turntables.
https://hifiguru.com.au/projects/bruces-thorens-td125-upgrade-with-custom-iridescent-electric-blue-plinth/
I am very pleasantly surprised.
No special phono pre amp, just the built in phono on my Myryad MP100.
Previous to the refurbishment my turntable was pretty poor, amongst other things the bearing was shot, pictures of my old bearing are on their site.
Look give vinyl a try.
I think the you will be surprised.
As an extra bonus you are open to a whole world of recordings that have never been released as CDs.
Think I read somewhere that the figure may have been 50 percent but I can't remember it exactly.
My recommendation?
Buy an old Thorens or one of the other great 70s turntables, get it refurbished by an expert and go out and enjoy vinyl.
If the 'inconvenience' of vinyl aggravates you, rip it in high resolution!!!
You can still enjoy that vinyl sound!!!
Hope this is of help.
Bruce

[Mag]

I'm going to rain on your Parade, "vinyl has five times the resolution of CD!!!!
I don't think so, I don't hear it. I recently copied an album that was recorded analog comparing it to same album re-mastered on cd. IMO it was slightly better certainly not 5 times better. And as far as I'm concerned with Concert blu ray videos trump vinyl by a long shot.

I will agree that many albums were never released on cd, one reason to listen to vinyl. And with a good recording vinyl doesn't sound compressed like many cd, but there are bad vinyl recordings too.

So you know if you put a lot of money into a vinyl rig it should sound pretty darn good. Just as putting a lot of money into digital will sound pretty darn good.

[Phil_S]

Very interesting discussion.  My situation is a bit different but may be relevant here.  I haven't taken the streaming leap, don't have a DAC.  I do have about 2500 LPs. Based on your investment in digital my recommendation is to NOT get into vinyl.  Use the funds to either upgrade or acquire more music. 

[toocool4]

Based on your investment in digital my recommendation is to NOT get into vinyl.  Use the funds to either upgrade or acquire more music.

I agree with Phil_S. I have a lot invested in Vinyl hence I would not start again with CD. If I want to go to CD now, I would need to spend loads to match my Vinyl setup.
Besides I have been spoilt by friends with Nagra and dCS CD players, nothing less will do. I would rather use that money to improve what i have already.
Also if you start with a new format, you will also need to buy new material and that's not cheap.

But saying all that, if you want it and have the money go for it.

[Sonny]

Well, all the advice, feedback and comments before this post of mine are all valid!  Here's my take, if anyone is interested.

Here's what to consider about Vinyl:

1 - Cost - it can be very very expensive, but having said that, it doesn't take much you have a decent set up
2 - Work - there's a lot of work in find synergy between table/arm/cart/phono pre!
3 - Tweaking - there's a lot of time spent to set up and tweak to get the best out of your vinyl playback
4 - Guessing - with all the years in having a vinyl playback set up and experience in setting up and tweaking a cartridge/arm combo, I still question myself if I've aligned the cart/stylus perfectly, what alignment is best, could I do better, etc.  With digital, it's plug and play, well almost that simple.
5 - Time - though it's nice to have physical media to touch, read and flip, it's also a time consuming process to find the album you want, make sure it's clean, get out of the cover, place on the platter, etc...

I am sure there are more reason why vinyl can be a love / hate relationship when it comes to all the points above, however, the results are that once it's all set up, I think it is the most pleasurable source for music.  The connection is there.  You listen to more than just a complete track, perhaps a whole side without skipping to the next song because you can (with digital).  The "awe" of physical process of an LP, Stylus and Phono stage to bring music from this piece of vinyl.  Lastly, though it's a cumbersome process, it's rewarding and calming.

PS, Twitch54, are you still using the SSR cables? 

[swisstrips]

Again, the additional comments are great, thank you!  The comment(s) relating to the experience as it where, was probably my initial motivation and not if its necessarily better.  We all know the source of the recording is critical (discounting gear, room acoustics etc..). 

I think with vinyl you are more inclined (forced) to listen start / finish the entire album.  With digital you have to be a bit more (a lot more) diligent not to just use playlists, single tracks.  Pros and cons to either environment for sure.  The comments do help put this all into context and certainly nothing wrong with having both. 

I do have considerable invested in DAC, network, servers, software etc..and feel as though It makes sense $ to continue to maintain that.  However it would be easy enough to try and get my old TT back to putz with, I'll see what I can do in that regard.

Not to veer off too much but, is the Yamaha TT I had possess any sort of quality or is it just a "meh" / good starter?

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Swisstrips,


You have been to my house and heard my old Thorens TD145 with a Nagaoka MP-200 cartridge and the Bellari preamp with a NOS 1950's tube and it sounds very good for not a lot of money.  You can certainly do better for not much more.

For around $1100 there are some nice TT's like the Rega RP3, Pro-ject X2,  Mobile Fidelity  Studio Deck, Music Hall MMF5.3.  For a little more money look at the Rega RP6, Music Hall MMF 7.3 and the Clear Audio Concept.

If you want to go cheaper there are some good decks.  If you want to tinker, the Schiit TT sounded great at RMAF.

AVAHiFi makes a great Phono preamp.  Jerry Raskin at the Needle Doctor said Franks Phono preamp sounded better than any of the preamps he sold up to $1K. Lounge Audio makes some great phono preamps.  I had the Silver edition in my system last fall and it sounded great.   The gold is supposed to sound  even better.

https://www.loungeaudio.com/hi-fi

Stereophile gave the basic phono pre a glowing review.

We need to get together for Beer.  Unfortunately it is supposed to rain this weekend.

Larry

[Elizabeth]

I would definitely tell you do NOT do it. Unless you have a substantial collection of records already. it is a waste of your time and money.
I now own 2,800 of  so down from 6,000 and that down from 13,000.
I own 3 turntables. If  I did not already own the records no dang way would I bother!
Better to spend your money on really expensive booze.Or just set the money on fire and watch it burn
Mainly if you have to ask, DO NOT DO IT. 
If it really was a must have, you would never have asked.

[knotscott]

There's an intangible experience with vinyl that only vinyl can give.  I also happen to favor the sound of a good TT/cart setup.  It doesn't need to cost a fortune to get good performance from vinyl.  You can pick up a new Audio Technica LP-120XUSB for ~ $250.  It has a very respectable built in pre-amp for line level out, or use the standard phono outs to your own phono pre-amp input, USB output for ripping copies, a decent arm, very quiet motor, external RCA connectors for easy cable upgrades, and a very nice VM95E stock cartridge, with some excellent stylus upgrade options. 

I added the shibata stylus and a rubber/cork slip mat, and it's been performing admirably for me in a very good system. 

[twitch54]

PS, Twitch54, are you still using the SSR cables? 

Tuan, they continue to perform flawlessly ! .........

Dave