[Jon L]

Oh man, that AMT driver is awesome.

I have been researching the Beyma TPL150H AMT driver in hopes of crossing them over at 1 kHz/18dB in a DIY project.  Beyma recommends crossover point of >=1kHz (12dB slope). 

However, I found multiple actual measurements on-line that are vastly different from the measurement Beyma posts.  Mainly, the driver needs to be crossed over at 1.8-2kHz to avoid the resonance frequency, and it also rolls off rapidly above 10kHz.

I am very curious what the crossover point/slope is used in Spatial Audio X3, X5 and what crossover/baffle strategies were used to create the reported great sound?  I would normally just buy them and try, but at $830/pair, risk is higher. 

Top graph is the Beyma-published FR.  The rest are user measurements.
BeymaTPL150Hfr1 by drjlo2, on Flickr
BeymaTPL150Hfr by drjlo2, on Flickr

[sarora9]

If the old speakers are right behind the X5 they are probably interfering with imaging.

[mrotino332]

The programs 1, 2 and 3 do nothing on the woofer amps.  Clayton had told me he was thinking of programming them differently but then decided it was not worthwhile so just programmed them the same DSP.  So just turn on the amps each time you listen and it will default to program 1 and no need to change the programs.

[geerock]

Morganc, Thanks for the reply.  Unfortunately, I don’t think there is any distributor in Canada to audition.  Can you elaborate what is tone density?  Can you also elaborate on the soundstage?  Is the improvement big or just subtle?  Would you recommend the X5 as an upgrade or they just sound “different”.

Thanks.

Dealaddict

Are you aware the X5's have gone up a thousand dollars?

[morganc]

I'm certainly happy that I got mine for a screaming deal used as well.  Loving them mOre and more each day.   Currently running them with a 2-Cherry Amp and the sound is quite sublime. 

[dealaddict]

No.  When I learn about the X5 a week or two ago, it is already $5950 per pair.  Do you mean it was $4950 before? 

Dealaddict

Are you aware the X5's have gone up a thousand dollars?

[sarora9]

The programs 1, 2 and 3 do nothing on the woofer amps.  Clayton had told me he was thinking of programming them differently but then decided it was not worthwhile so just programmed them the same DSP.  So just turn on the amps each time you listen and it will default to program 1 and no need to change the programs.

Note however that the adjustment dial does affect bass level and should be adjusted to your room and taste.

[dealaddict]

The programs 1, 2 and 3 do nothing on the woofer amps.  Clayton had told me he was thinking of programming them differently but then decided it was not worthwhile so just programmed them the same DSP.  So just turn on the amps each time you listen and it will default to program 1 and no need to change the programs.

Thanks for the info.

However, I observe something.  I listened to it last night at pretty low volume in P2, the subwoofer turn off probably thinking there is no music coming in.  When I turn the volume up a bit, they turn back on.  Then I switch it to P1 and do more tests, it seems the subwoofer stays on without the on and off.  I will leave it to P1 and do more tests.  Maybe I need to program one with no auto power off.

[mrotino332]

Yeah I'm not sure regarding if there should be any differences regarding the amp shutting off between P1 and P2.  I just leave it on the default P1 and do not notice the amps ever turning on/off during a listening session but I do not typically listen at softer levels.  I do always shut off the amps between listening sessions, I don't like to leave them on although I'm sure you can with no issues.
I believe they operate like a rel sub in that the amp will go in standby mode if it doesn't detect a signal for some time.  I had rel subs which did that but I still preferred to switch them off when not listening, just my preference.

[geerock]

No.  When I learn about the X5 a week or two ago, it is already $5950 per pair.  Do you mean it was $4950 before?

They are now $6950.

[dealaddict]

They are now $6950.

Oh, it is still USD $5950 in the description page

https://www.spatialaudio.us/pagex5

But listed $6950 in the products page.

https://www.spatialaudio.us/store

Compared to other brand having power subwoofer, it is still quite (or very) reasonable.  IMO, we are the lucky early adopters who got a deal.   

[glynnw]

Regarding the sub settings on the X5, Clayton asked that I not fool with them and leave it at P1. As supplied P1 is set to the profile that he has designed for the speaker.  As I understand it, the other options are not set up at all.

[dealaddict]

Just to give an update on using 2A3 on the X5.  I have been waiting for a pair of RCA 2A3 and they finally arrived today.  it took me 2 weeks of painful waiting due to the COVID-19.  It is a Triode Lab 2A3 integrated amplifier with transformer upgrades.  It is said to be ~$8000 at retailed, of course I bought used and didn't pay that amount. 

A funny side story.  The seller, which is a store, send me 6SL7 tubes while it should use 6SN7.  I plugged the 6SL7 in them and it sounds like crap.  Vocal sounds thin.  I initially thought: "Oh ... the 2A3 are not enough to power the speakers maybe the reason."  I happened to have a pair of 6SN7GT because my Almarro uses it.  Viola!  That's it, it sounds good now.  I started to think if the original owner sell it because he put the wrong tubes in it making it sounds like crap.  Good I get a good deal.   

First of all, I don't feel the 2A3 lack of power driving the speakers.  Using my 18W Almarro, using a CD player, it is set at about slightly pass the 7:00 position.  On my 2A3, for similar sound level, it is at ~9:00 position.  This is actually good for my listening taste and environment.  My area is 18"x12", and I listen Jazz at a low-medium volume.  I don't know if the upgraded transformer make any difference.  We are comparing a top of the line 2A3 (CAD$8000 retail) to a best-bang-for-the-buck amp (CAD$3000 retail).  I don't feel I need to increase the volume of the powered subwoofer either.  So, it seems the amp is only driving the mid range and the AMT, and the sweet 4 W is not lacking anything in driving them.

I haven't done any A/B test.  By impression, the 2A3 sounds smoother.  The instruments also have better separation.  I feel it overall sounds better, not yet able to analyze specifically what is better.

[dealaddict]

I further listen for another 2 hours ...
This 2A3 is smooth.  When I listen to the Almarro, for some kinds of music, I get a bit of a fatigue feeling, i don't know why.  But I didn't get that for this 2A3.  It also sound more 3D and more real life.  And somehow, the soundstage sounds higher too, not sure why.

It is also more revealing.  It reveals some noise in one of the song that again I didn’t notice before.  Also, the slight “squeak” before a note in violins, the singer’s saliva noise ... everything are revealed.

The Almarro is good, it got rave reviews.  This Triode Lab 2A3 yet brings my system to the next level!!

[geerock]

I further listen for another 2 hours ...
This 2A3 is smooth.  When I listen to the Almarro, for some kinds of music, I get a bit of a fatigue feeling, i don't know why.  But I didn't get that for this 2A3.  It also sound more 3D and more real life.  And somehow, the soundstage sounds higher too, not sure why.

It is also more revealing.  It reveals some noise in one of the song that again I didn’t notice before.  Also, the slight “squeak” before a note in violins, the singer’s saliva noise ... everything are revealed.

The Almarro is good, it got rave reviews.  This Triode Lab 2A3 yet brings my system to the next level!!

Nice find on the 2A3.  Killer amp.  A buddy of mine has one and, when he heard the 6sn7 tubes in my Don Sachs pre, he decided to try the ones that came with it.  Normally I wouldn't give you a nickle for chinese tubes but the new  Dawning Series high end stuff from Shuguang are an exceptional tube.  I have all kinds of NOS tubes but tried these and they are a lush, beautiful sounding tube.  Just a suggestion if you want to do a little tube rolling.  Just be sure to get the WE6SN7 PLUS.  In his 2A3 they are great.

[dealaddict]

Nice find on the 2A3.  Killer amp.  A buddy of mine has one and, when he heard the 6sn7 tubes in my Don Sachs pre, he decided to try the ones that came with it.  Normally I wouldn't give you a nickle for chinese tubes but the new  Dawning Series high end stuff from Shuguang are an exceptional tube.  I have all kinds of NOS tubes but tried these and they are a lush, beautiful sounding tube.  Just a suggestion if you want to do a little tube rolling.  Just be sure to get the WE6SN7 PLUS.  In his 2A3 they are great.

Thanks for the info.  I will put it on my list.  I am tempted to try the Psvane WR2A3 as well, but they are $400, very expensive.  I heard these are good too.  Which one, 6SN7 or 2A3, will have biggest impact to the sound?

[Jon L]

The Almarro is good, it got rave reviews.  This Triode Lab 2A3 yet brings my system to the next level!!

Almarro uses great design and nice transformers, but for some reason, the designer uses these grey polyester coupling caps in all his amps, including 318B and A205a II.
Change those out with some nice copper foil caps, e.g Jupiter copper foil, and do a rematch 



 

[dealaddict]

Almarro uses great design and nice transformers, but for some reason, the designer uses these grey polyester coupling caps in all his amps, including 318B and A205a II.
Change those out with some nice copper foil caps, e.g Jupiter copper foil, and do a rematch 

In fact, I am going to do that.  My Almarro need a service.  The sound is leaning on the left, and I believe it is caused by the volume pot.  So, I will take it to a technician and do the following:

1) replace the volume pot
2) by pass the source selector as it also have some problem
3) check all the caps make sure there are no leaks
4) replace the coupling caps.

I also read multiple post on upgrading to Jupiter caps, but they are expensive and more than what I want to spend on it.  The Audio Note 0.44uF happened to be on sale, and for the 0.22uF, I bought the Arizona Blue Catcus.  They will arrive on 22.  Will update back after the rematch 

[dealaddict]

Almarro uses great design and nice transformers, but for some reason, the designer uses these grey polyester coupling caps in all his amps, including 318B and A205a II.
Change those out with some nice copper foil caps, e.g Jupiter copper foil, and do a rematch 

Ok, I finally got back the amp, it has more problems than I anticipated.  Besides upgrading the 0.44uF cap to Audio Note, and the 0.22uF to Arizona Blue Catus,  two of the blue caps leaks and got replaced.  Then after that, one side has no high frequencies and the technician replaced 6 of the capacitors as well.  I end up spend $600 all together for parts and labor!  So, here is the rematch.

After the fix and upgrade if the caps, the Almarro is much more musical, no longer dominate by the mid range.  Compared to the Triode Lab 2A3, the music has more weight, more mid and low frequency, even more bass.  I don’t expect that because the X5 has a power subwoofer.  I believe it is due to the extra 10w of power to the 12” mid range driver. 

However, my impression to the Triode Lab still holds.  It has more detail, more clarity and more transparent.  I can hear more “stuff“ going on.  So, for certain records, I enjoy it more on the TL.  However, there are some songs that sounds a bit harsh or fatigue-ing to  be play on the TL. 

So, it is hard to say which one is better.  They are both good.  The Almarro is more relax, while the Triode Lab reveals every single bits of detail.  My taste is more leaning towards the Triode Lab.  The Almarro is overall good.  But the Triode Lab gives me a smile when listening to the right records.