[mresseguie]

The basic circuit he uses is amazing.  I've replaced every small cap in my amps with Miflex KPCU caps and bypassed all the larger caps with more KPCU's, as well as replaced all the input and output wiring with UPOCC copper wire, replaced the binding posts & RCA jacks with top line Furutech connectors, replaced the IEC with pure copper iEgo connectors, after all that they perform at a VERY high level. 

Plus I love the fact that you can roll anything from an EL84, to EL34's, 6CA7s, KT77S, KT66, 807, KT88, 6550 or KT120's in this amp, as long as you use the appropriate rectifier. 

You are correct about the rectifier tube! I used every combination known to man and the biggest jump in Sonics came when I added a Sophia 274B mesh plate in the pre and Sophia blue glass 274B in the amp. Soooo much AIR around instruments. I just can’t believe the performance you get from his offerings?!? I’ve TRIED HARD to replace this combo and spent a lot of money trying to do so and nothing can best it?!? After buying this SS amp I’m just going to stick with Inspire gear as I’m not going to the 5-10k range for an amp when I get this much out of a 2k amp. That’s why I’m going to have him build me cost no object amp then be done with the front end.

Stop it right now, you two!

All this excited chatter is 'inspiring' me to research his amps.....and I already have too many amps. Geez, Tyson. Why didn't you tell me this back when I bought your ST-70 from you? 

[Tyson]

Stop it right now, you two!

All this excited chatter is 'inspiring' me to research his amps.....and I already have too many amps. Geez, Tyson. Why didn't you tell me this back when I bought your ST-70 from you? 

What do you think I was selling the ST-70 for?   

Actually I really like that version of the ST-70 too, the octal driver board is quite good.  But I just don't need that much power nowadays with my speakers. 

The Inspire amps I have only do 14 watts max (with KT120 tubes), and even less with 6L6 or EL34 tubes - only about 10 watts.

[opnly bafld]

Stop it right now, you two!

All this excited chatter is 'inspiring' me to research his amps.....and I already have too many amps.

I have had (pun intended) 3 of 'em; Sweet 807, SEP Universal, and SET Universal.
Loved all of them, especially the Universals, like Tyson said the tube choices................

Lin

[mresseguie]

What do you think I was selling the ST-70 for?   

Actually I really like that version of the ST-70 too, the octal driver board is quite good.  But I just don't need that much power nowadays with my speakers. 

The Inspire amps I have only do 14 watts max (with KT120 tubes), and even less with 6L6 or EL34 tubes - only about 10 watts.

Okay. I'll grudgingly forgive you. 

In reality, I've only used the ST-70 a few times since it arrived. There's nothing wrong with it, but it's extra. I'll likely sell it and another amp next Spring when I'm back in the States.

[khill]

I don’t want anyone thinking this Cherry amp isn’t sweet...it is! Thing is, SS may just not be my jam?!? This thing is dynamic, has sparkling highs, nice bass slam, and nice wide soundstage (Inspire throws a larger ski soundstage and seems to image better)?!? The things I don’t quite like about the Cherry is there is not that syrupy lush midrange. If you have heard a good SE tube amp...you know what I mean. I’m sure 95% of the guys who dig all that clear defined SS sound might think this thing was heaven...but I list to way too much piano jazz and SS just makes the horns and cymbals sound tinny...if that’s a word!? I listened to some Radiohead and some rock music and it did sound a little better on the Cherry but like I said...I’m old now and love my slow instrumental piano jazz with cymbal crashes and stand up acoustic bass strings vibrating. Yummy!!!

[FullRangeMan]

Your post remind me the romantic EL34/KT88 presentation.

[mresseguie]

I don’t want anyone thinking this Cherry amp isn’t sweet...it is! Thing is, SS may just not be my jam?!? This thing is dynamic, has sparkling highs, nice bass slam, and nice wide soundstage (Inspire throws a larger ski soundstage and seems to image better)?!? The things I don’t quite like about the Cherry is there is not that syrupy lush midrange. If you have heard a good SE tube amp...you know what I mean. I’m sure 95% of the guys who dig all that clear defined SS sound might think this thing was heaven...but I list to way too much piano jazz and SS just makes the horns and cymbals sound tinny...if that’s a word!? I listened to some Radiohead and some rock music and it did sound a little better on the Cherry but like I said...I’m old now and love my slow instrumental piano jazz with cymbal crashes and stand up acoustic bass strings vibrating. Yummy!!!

While I have not heard a Cherry/DAC SS amp, I have heard two renditions of the 1200as2 and a Rowland class D amp, and agree 100% with what you have stated concerning the different characteristics (SS vs tube). I have my 1200as2 for back up or when my living room is too warm, but my Don Sachs amp <not syrupy> is what I prefer to listen to.

[RonN5]

We all have our own individual preferences. After hearing a LOT of live music over the past few years of various genres in various venues, I’ve come to believe that lush syrupy midrange is more of an effect than it is realty. That is not to say it doesn’t sound good or it isn’t fun.. but to my ear it isn’t quite as realistic.

If I had the space I’d set up two systems... or maybe even three... one being the most realistic and the other two with different but pleasing sounds.. but for now that isn’t going to happen so I’m sticking with the 2 cherry and it’s realism.

[SET Man]

I don’t want anyone thinking this Cherry amp isn’t sweet...it is! Thing is, SS may just not be my jam?!? This thing is dynamic, has sparkling highs, nice bass slam, and nice wide soundstage (Inspire throws a larger ski soundstage and seems to image better)?!? The things I don’t quite like about the Cherry is there is not that syrupy lush midrange. If you have heard a good SE tube amp...you know what I mean. I’m sure 95% of the guys who dig all that clear defined SS sound might think this thing was heaven...but I list to way too much piano jazz and SS just makes the horns and cymbals sound tinny...if that’s a word!? I listened to some Radiohead and some rock music and it did sound a little better on the Cherry but like I said...I’m old now and love my slow instrumental piano jazz with cymbal crashes and stand up acoustic bass strings vibrating. Yummy!!!

Hey!

   I was looking forward to your finding in this, especially with so much have been said about the Cherry amp.

   I'm not surprised on your finding. Although, I have to admit that "syrupy" mid can be misunderstood by many. I actually have heard some SET amps that do sound syrupy, too much for my taste actually. Yes, I'm using SET amps myself but there's nothing syrupy about my them, I find them pretty natural to my ears.

   For me when I put on, let's say Anna Netrebko singing Verdi's "Addio del Passato" and I don't feel it then that system is not right for me. I want to be reminded when I've heard here sing live on the Met Opera's stage. Of course I do like other type of music too. It is all about emotional level for me.

   Anyway, as expected. For me and other tube users, especially SET users will most likely understand your finding. But for other SS or Class-D users they are likely to labeled us as lover of distortions. But I'm OK with that

Buddy

[Tyson]

I find that SET (and SEP) amps allow a level of direct, low level transparency that really allows you to hear the nuances of the performance in a way that other topologies just don't, at least not IME.  The nuance I'm talking about is not just "detail" but rather a fully transparent view of the artist as a physical being.  That's not syrupy at all, IMO.  It's more honest and also more directly emotive. 

The downside is that you need very efficient speakers to mate with an SET or SEP amp.  The good news is that there's more and more options out there nowadays, and many of them are excellent, and often FAR better than products in the past. 

[planet10]

The downside is that you need very efficient speakers to mate with an SET or SEP amp.

That is only a side issue. The real skill in matching a SET or SEP with their typically high output impedance is having a speaker with a very flat impedance curve, or an impedance curve that is complementary — the FR of the high output impedance amp is convolved with a portion of the speaker’s impedance (an amount directly related to the output impedance). I see many SET/SEPs matched with high efficiency speakers with ugly impedance curves and i shudder.

It should also be noted that there is no reason that a SS SE amp cannot have the same kind of low level “truth” that a good SE tube amp has. A SIT/VFET has transfer functions really similar to a triode, transistors similar to pentodes, MOSFETs in-between. These amps are much rarer outside DIY.

dave

[Wind Chaser]

I like syrup (maple) on my pancakes; don’t mind a little in my herbal tea either, but I prefer purity of tone to SET syrupy tone. In addition to purity, I like power. Power is good. Power means I get to pick the transducers my ears like. 

[planet10]

...I prefer purity of tone to SET syrupy tone...

It doesn’t have to be that way althou, particularily in 300B amps, i have heard it more often than not. I call the syrupy ones to be a classically, tubey sound, a good SET will not have this kind of behaviour until pushed far harder than it should be.

dave

PS: only maple syrup for me

[SET Man]

I find that SET (and SEP) amps allow a level of direct, low level transparency that really allows you to hear the nuances of the performance in a way that other topologies just don't, at least not IME.  The nuance I'm talking about is not just "detail" but rather a fully transparent view of the artist as a physical being.  That's not syrupy at all, IMO.  It's more honest and also more directly emotive. 

The downside is that you need very efficient speakers to mate with an SET or SEP amp.  The good news is that there's more and more options out there nowadays, and many of them are excellent, and often FAR better than products in the past.

Hey!

  Well put on there about a good SET system there. And yes finding the right speaker to with SET that you can live with is the hard part I must say.

Buddy

[FullRangeMan]

I like syrup (maple) on my pancakes; don’t mind a little in my herbal tea either, but I prefer purity of tone to SET syrupy tone. In addition to purity, I like power. Power is good. Power means I get to pick the transducers my ears like. 

The musical warm mellow tube tone came from the EI core OPT,
For a more detailed and focused tone should be used an C or double C core OPT.

It doesn’t have to be that way althou, particularily in 300B amps, i have heard it more often than not. I call the syrupy ones to be a classically, tubey sound, a good SET will not have this kind of behaviour until pushed far harder than it should be.

[khill]

I find that SET (and SEP) amps allow a level of direct, low level transparency that really allows you to hear the nuances of the performance in a way that other topologies just don't, at least not IME.  The nuance I'm talking about is not just "detail" but rather a fully transparent view of the artist as a physical being.  That's not syrupy at all, IMO.  It's more honest and also more directly emotive. 

The downside is that you need very efficient speakers to mate with an SET or SEP amp.  The good news is that there's more and more options out there nowadays, and many of them are excellent, and often FAR better than products in the past.

Tyson,
You are spot on with the “low level transparency” comment! Little ticks from a cymbal layered in the background, a pluck of a guitar string that is set way in the background. I get these thing with the SET (SEP)!!!! I pulled the STM out of my system today and spent a lot of time listening to many of the reference tracks I listened to on the Cherry and to my ears it’s not even close as to which system sounds better. Night and day!

[khill]

I like syrup (maple) on my pancakes; don’t mind a little in my herbal tea either, but I prefer purity of tone to SET syrupy tone. In addition to purity, I like power. Power is good. Power means I get to pick the transducers my ears like. 

Syrupy was a bad description?!? What you said! 

[khill]

Hey!

  Well put on there about a good SET system there. And yes finding the right speaker to with SET that you can live with is the hard part I must say.

Buddy

Like I said earlier. I have spent thousands of dollars trying to find something that would push my little DH Inspire SET(SEP) amp and pre out of my rack and nothing has been able to do it.

3k on amp/pre, 3k on Tekton DI’s, and 1.2k on Border Patrol DAC. I have to say it’s a budget system that just works I suppose?!? For the life of me, everything I try to upgrade to ends up for sale?!?

 

[RonN5]

Tyson,
You are spot on with the “low level transparency” comment! Little ticks from a cymbal layered in the background, a pluck of a guitar string that is set way in the background. I get these thing with the SET (SEP)!!!! I pulled the STM out of my system today and spent a lot of time listening to many of the reference tracks I listened to on the Cherry and to my ears it’s not even close as to which system sounds better. Night and day!

I have a slightly different take on what is happening.  Lately, there have been a number of SET amp reviews that have sparked an increased number of SET amp forum threads.  It seems that the SET amp magic doesn't happen with all speakers. In other words...you can't just plunk any SET amp in front of any high efficiency speaker and be certain you will get the "low level transparency" you referred to. 

This isn't and shouldn't be a surprise because we have all learned that the magic happens only when the source, electronics, speaker and room combination is optimal which often takes a lot of trial and error....as you have experienced

In my case, I own the Salk Veracity STs....89db efficiency...so not ideal for marrying with a SET amp.  But, what the Salks do have is the RAAL 70/20 ribbon tweeter...which itself has an unbelievable ability to recreate all of the dimensional inner detail that you referred to....but not with every amplifier.  I've heard the Veracity STs with four different amplifiers....only with the 2Cherry did they produce the sound you describe with your system and SET amplifier.  And at least for me, the dimensionality and detail are only part of the whole experience....the 2Cherry actually brings the sound alive with clarity (without harshness) and tonality that results in a high degree of realism.

Based on a review by Terry London...who also owns various Tekton loudspeakers including the Perfect Set....maybe you could consider his latest amplifier recommendation which has SET sound but more power.

https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/aric/

[genjamon]

Interesting review. And mirrors what I’ve heard with stout transmitter tube SET amps as well. I would only note that his final comparison of 211/845 should be taken with a grain of salt. The 211 tubes he used were of significantly higher quality than the 845 tubes. Those base-level 845 tubes could easily have been the reason for the performance differential there, in my experience.

These kinds of SETs are magical, but exact a heavy toll in operating costs (highest quality 845 tubes go for upward of $1k, and even decent performers are >$500 a pair, plus all the other tubes in these amps).