[FreedomJazzDance]

Not to confuse matters but, you have the option of doing an active crossover that isn't digital. The Pioneer SF-850 is a 2 or 3 way active crossover. Stock, they sound quite good. A few power supply tweaks and they sound even better.


These have 6, 12 and 18dB slopes for each XO band. Each band has separate gain controls so your can compensate for efficiency differences. The used market has these at around $800 or so, when you can find them.

As for experience, I did active, multi-amp setups for almost two decades with tremendous success. I've since pushed the "easy" button with big power and ridiculous speakers. Without question, my active setup just flat smoked my current setup (which is pretty decent by most standards).

There are other active analog XOs out there. I've even got an all tubed 2/3 way. I've played with most of them over the years but by a goodly sum, the Pioneer SF-850 was the best, IMO, YMMV, and all other disclaimers that come to mind.

Good luck on your journey 
Carry on 

Nice!!! thanks for the tip about the Pioneer one, I also noticed that Sony produced some very well respected analog crossovers, form the ESPRIT series I think... there's lot of options, can be really fun to experiment, again, thanks for the tip about the Pioneer one 

[FreedomJazzDance]

Bryston had an active 3 way xover years in the 1990s.
https://www.stereophile.com/miscellaneous/594bryston/index.html

Thanks for the tip about the Bryston FullRange, 

[FreedomJazzDance]

Hey guys, let me ask about again about the Pioneer M-73 solution for multi amplify the radial horns and super tweeters, because I think it was not so clear...I'm taking a closer look at an amp's picture right know, and noticed that the speakers A and B, can be selected both at the same time, so maybe is possible amplify the 2 super tweeters + 2 radial horns, just one of this, instead of 2 isn't?

[FullRangeMan]

Hey guys, let me ask about again about the Pioneer M-73 solution for multi amplify the radial horns and super tweeters, because I think it was not so clear...I'm taking a closer look at an amp's picture right know, and noticed that the speakers A and B, can be selected both at the same time, so maybe is possible amplify the 2 super tweeters + 2 radial horns, just one of this, instead of 2 isn't?

A & B will delivery the same musical program since input is just one, you will need a xover after the amp.

[FreedomJazzDance]

Let me put a hypothetical situation about a bi-amp application with a particular amp, in a more organized way, in order to be simple for you guys explain me.

Here's the amp:





Here's the situation:

Considering a pair of 3 way loudspeakers, 12" woofer + radial horn + super horn tweeter, it's possible to amplify the 2 radial horns + 2 super horn tweeters, with just one Pioneer M-73?

I'm asking because the amp have two A Left speakers terminals + two B Right speakers terminals, and on the front, I see that is possible to select the A + B speakers selector at the same time, and also, when you see inside the amp, appears to have 4 separated channels, see the picture:



I will be in fact bi-amping?

Many thanks, best regards.

[FreedomJazzDance]

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[FreedomJazzDance]

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[Rusty Jefferson]

If you're going the passive crossover route, it would be more common to bi-amp the speakers by using 1 amplifier (or 2 channels of a multi channel amp) for the woofers, and a second amp (or 2 more channels) to power BOTH the bi-radial horn and super tweeters.  You're not gaining anything by separating the super tweeters in the network and tri-amping.

If you're dead set on tri-amping, I'd suggest buying two 3 channel amplifiers. Many good quality, reasonably priced models available.

[WGH]

Aren't you putting the cart before the horse? I know buying an amp is a lot easier (and quicker) than designing a speaker with three complex crossovers but buying an amp does not make you a speaker designer.

Do you have a link to the drivers and/or the crossover designs? Forgive me if I missed it, your threads ramble and are in three places at once.

Dennis Murphy designs the crossovers for Salk Signature Sound and you should follow his example. Dennis usually has only one speaker at a time:
"....even though I frequently can't compare speakers in stereo because I only have one of each."
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=72521.msg679682#msg679682

Here is a thread on finalizing a speaker design:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=78682.msg746615#msg746615

Once you have your prototypes made and the initial crossovers measure well, then you can make a second crossover with some tweaks and compare the two designs using the Van Alstine ABX Switch Comparitor

Once you have your speakers designed and tweaked, then you will know what type of amplification will work best (tubes, Class A, Class AB, Class D) and the power requirements, then you can buy the amp.

[srb]

..... it's possible to amplify the 2 radial horns + 2 super horn tweeters, with just one Pioneer M-73?

I'm asking because the amp have two A Left speakers terminals + two B Right speakers terminals, and on the front, I see that is possible to select the A + B speakers selector at the same time, and also, when you see inside the amp, appears to have 4 separated channels .....

The Pioneer M-73 is a 2-channel stereo amplifier.  Many stereo amplifiers have an A/B speaker selector switch and A and B speaker outputs.

This is to facilitate choosing between two pairs of speakers or both pairs at the same time.  When you choose A+B you are connecting the speakers in parallel, which is why, for example, if the amp is capable of driving 4Ω speakers, it will say the minimum impedance for A+B is 8Ω.

[FreedomJazzDance]

I think I have found the answer for my question, please let me know if I'm correct:

Consider passive crossover.

So if I choose to use 1 M-73 to amplify 4 speaker's drivers using the 4 speaker's terminals (A left horn + B left tweeter / A right horn + B right tweeter), and select A AND B speakers selectors to work at same time, i will be bi-wiring, that means: each amplifier's channel will be responsible for divide their power for 2 drivers right? this can be done only if the drivers don't go bellow 8ohms, correct?

I realized this is not a 4 channel amp, it's a 2 channel stereo amp, I was thinking it was a 4 channel amp, with 4 separated blocks, with each speaker's terminals connected to each block, just because of the inside look, (appears that are 4 separated amp blocks), but is not, it's just a stereo amp, correct?

[WC]

Yes to both questions.

[FreedomJazzDance]

Thanks! finally understood then

Still considering passive crossover.

So let me ask you:

what will be the benefit of using two M-73, and bi-amp 2 horns and 2 tweeters Vs. the bi-wire method with just one M-73?

Thanks!

[WGH]

An amp for something like this?

https://6moons.com/audioreviews/realitycheck2/kalinowksi.html

[FreedomJazzDance]

Will take a look, thanks...

Found this website this days, the guy builded the exactly loudspeakers, with a very sophisticated multi amplification system and active crossover, build all his amps, contact him, talked with him this days, very nice guy

https://nobody-audio.com/English/index.html

All the documentation about each aspect of the system's design process on his website is stunning, everything, from the loudspeaker's building process, amp's that hi built, all system's fine tuning, very interesting and helpful, in order to interpret some infos I need to evolve more my knowledge about audio in general, as you guys noticed, I'm on the beginning of the learning process about some subjects, and you guys are being amazing, thanks for the patience with me, I'm very grateful

[WGH]

Will take a look, thanks...

Also take a look at Bert Doppenberg's site with photos of his horn designs, products including DIY parts, and most important - a Forum!
http://www.bd-design.nl/index.html
http://www.bd-design.nl/contents/en-us/d132_John_Kalinowski.html

Mini Case Study - John Kalinowski of KCS  Loudspeakers
https://studylib.net/doc/9005890/mini-case-study-john-kalinowski-of-kcs-loudspeakers-by-jo...

Follow John Kalinowski, the designer and builder of the Fostex speakers shown above on Pinterest
https://www.pinterest.com/johnkalinowski9/

[FreedomJazzDance]

Hello guys, any of you had experiences with the Sony TA-N86B?

http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N86B.html

I'm thinking about in start to acquire some of this amps when founded in great condition, for the multi amp project, as well preamp from that series, and the crossover.

The amps had a long production run, from lates 70's till mid 80's, for what I researched Sony puts a lot of high level of engineering on this series of equipments, the amps are class A or you ca switch to B, they are compact, so shipping will be low cost, plus friend in Japan ca bring to me...

I thinking that ca be an amazing solution for multi-amplify the 3 way speakers, 2 TA-N86 in Class A for the horns and tweeters, other one for woofers, + the preamp and the crossover, all from the same series.

Also, if you guys can recommended me if there's a Forum where are sections focused about vintage amps restorations and etc, in order for me to know more some particularities of this amp design, and how hard, or easy... is to revise, or repair they if needed...

But my concern is: I don't know if there's people were I live, that have the know how to recap, or repair this amps, in case the need for it.... any of you had contact with this amps? to make a revision on then, repairs, and etc, it's complicated?

Many thanks.

[FreedomJazzDance]

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[FullRangeMan]

Tri amp it is a pro-audio solution as Rollo said,
I would not put any money on this.

[FreedomJazzDance]

Well after think about a lot this days, considering all the infos acquired, i think I still not have the knowledge to elaborate a multi amplified active system, better keep it simple first, make the Passive crossover recommended by Fostex...thanks everybody, if occurs another  doubts I will put here, apreciate all the help, best regards.