Speaker cables on AKSA

Felipe · « **on:** 31 Jan 2005, 10:18 am »

Hi,

I would like to ppl comment on wich speaker cables sound best with AKSA, but first i'll leave a question :

How does the AKSA handles with FOIL cables like the Goertz or any DIY copper foil cables? These are high capacitance cables. Does the AKSA work with these?

Tx

Filipe

Tinker · « **Reply #1 on:** 31 Jan 2005, 11:36 am »

Quote from: Felipe

How does the AKSA handles with FOIL cables like the Goertz or any DIY copper foil cables? These are high capacitance cables. Does the AKSA work with these?

If you hunt back through the archives Hugh does not usually endorse high capacitance cables (such as Goertz) with the AKSA.

Check the tour sticky at the top of the forum: the tour amp is really shining with the Tara Lab cable.

I thought I'd stick my 2c in because I use Goertz MI1 and MI2 with my (slightly modded) AKSA 55s. They sound great, but they are such a pain in the a$$ to work with I think I will stop using them eventually.

T.

Felipe · « **Reply #2 on:** 31 Jan 2005, 12:03 pm »

The Tara Labs really seem like a very nice match, for what ppl are saying.

I searched the Web and the Tara Labs site, they dont seem to make that cable anymore !??

- Tara Labs Phase 2 TFA Return

Does anyone know here to get it from ?? Europe supplier would be nice.

Tx

Filipe

Gordy · « **Reply #3 on:** 31 Jan 2005, 01:36 pm »

Hello Felipe

The Cable Company http://www.fatwyre.com/ in New Hope, Pennsylvania is the only source that I am aware of that still has it. It is on sale though, if you buy the 10 ft. terminated length only!

Carlman · « **Reply #4 on:** 31 Jan 2005, 02:09 pm »

Quote from: Gordy

Hello Felipe

The Cable Company http://www.fatwyre.com/ in New Hope, Pennsylvania is the only source that I am aware of that still has it. It is on sale though, if you buy the 10 ft. terminated length only!

You are correct. The CC bought the remaining inventory from Tara. They have a special arrangement on this deal... Tara will terminate the cable if the length is 10' or more. There is a fee to terminate for anything less.

Of about 8 different grueling speaker cable comparisons, I found the Tara to be the best for the AKSA by far.

tl1000sv · « **Reply #5 on:** 31 Jan 2005, 05:19 pm »

I presently have the Tour AKSA 100N+ and concur with the cable assessment. I tried it with CC89259, braided Cat5 and stranded zipcord. Tara labs sounds better than any of them. I have been making notes for an upcoming post to the review sticky, and had already ranked them in this order of preference:

Tara Labs
CC89259
zip cord
Cat5

Now that I think about it, that is approximating an increasing rank for overall cable capacitance.

Tim

Felipe · « **Reply #6 on:** 31 Jan 2005, 05:35 pm »

Tim:

Do you mean the Tara has a lower capacitance than the CrossConnected 89259?
I built the cc89259 and they are suposed to have VERY low capacitive properties !

Are the Tara worth the extra $ ? I cant seem to find a pair for less than $100 USD plus shipping.

tl1000sv · « **Reply #7 on:** 31 Jan 2005, 05:50 pm »

I haven't measured the Tara's capacitance (trust me, I am spending all my time listening) but to my knowledge, they are a straight through design with a return feed. $100 for a set is all you are going to find, in that the only new old stock is available from a single source.

I think you might be mistaken about the CC89259. They are low inductance designs, but capacitance is more than twice that of zipcord - not that it should be a problem for any amp. I was anticipating the CC89259's to sound better than the Tara's, but I distinctly preferred the latter.

I tried the Tara's on several amp/speaker combinations and was convinced to order a set, if that conveys anything to you.

I did make an error in my previous generalization - CC89259 are more capacitive than zipcord but they sounded better to me. FYI, Goertz cables are 20x the capacitance of zipcord...

Occam · « **Reply #8 on:** 31 Jan 2005, 05:58 pm »

Felipe,

For folks based in N.A. I'd reccomend the Taras, as they are quite inexepensive for 'haute' cables. For someone who is a distance away, or for those amenable to some diy, you might cosider making your own. The Tara TFA II wReturn are simply 2 insulated and twisted 18ga solid core wires on the (+) cable. On the physically separate return (-/ground) cable leg, when it is 'with Return', it simply is those same 18ga solid core wires but 3 of them with the extra wire connected at the speaker end and left floating at the amp end. You could make your own version with whatever wire you like, magnet/transformer enameled, whatever.

I've no idea to what extent this particular synergy is due to the specific construction and composition of the wires, or whether the extra wire of the 'with Return' version does diddlely.... I just know it works exceptionally well, far better than CC89259, FOR ME on the 100w N+.

With regards to the CC89259, the cross connection raises the capacitance significantly, from about 17pf/ft for a single coax 89259, to about 40+pf/ft, but at the same time offers significantly lower inductance. The Tara's geometry of pysically separate '+' & '-' legs would have even lower capacitance. (I lack an LCR bridge to empically verify that statement).

Felipe · « **Reply #9 on:** 31 Jan 2005, 06:21 pm »

Occam:

Thanks for the info on the Tara cables. I think i'll give it a try on the diy.

But i still have an issue : Do you know of comparisons of the real Tara cable vs a DIY Tara cable?

What i mean is....despite knowing the philosophy of the cable, dont the wire properties itself influence on the final result ?
What kind of copper cable does Tara Labs use ?
What about insulation ?
How many twists per feet ?
Crimp or solder spades ?

regards,

Filipe

rosconey · « **Reply #10 on:** 31 Jan 2005, 06:24 pm »

try the orange(14ga) home depot extention cord-25ft for 12$.

i just tried some and it replaced a 12ga home depot yellow extention cord-didnt notice a difference at first but today there is more sparkle and i noticed my feet wouldnt stay still and i didnt even put bologna in my shoes

.
i ran 2 wires from black and one from red as suggested over at the asylum

for the price its worth a try and if you dont like just add connectors and make power cords

Occam · « **Reply #11 on:** 31 Jan 2005, 06:41 pm »

Philipe,

All I can tell you is that my Tara have 5-6twists/ft, though I don't know how it would change objective/subjective measures as the wires that are twisted together are carrying the same signal, and not both phases as is typical. So the twists/ft are not effecting the capacitance of the cable.....Similarly, the nature of the insulations dielectrive effects shouldn't be as significant. But subjectively, it might, or might not, be critical. Dunno.

As to the other questions.... if I knew that, I'd be a cable manufacturer. (well, not actually. There is that issue of 'not playing well with others')

Josh,
Sorry for the overpost of your CC89259 post. I should have hit preview. So whats this nonsense about not attending Saturday's Rave because of migraines? What could be more soothing that hearing loud music on mutiple components and considering the combinatoric permutations?

dstroot · « **Reply #12 on:** 31 Jan 2005, 07:07 pm »

How are the NOS Tara's terminated? $100 for a high-end set of cables doesn't sound terribly exhorbitant to me - very good DIY are probably $50 with good wire and good termination.

The site selling the 10' Tara cables doesn't have any pictures, nor any description really. Also - are the Taras flexible or stiff? How heavy are they?

I might be interested in trying them but not without some more data.

Occam · « **Reply #13 on:** 31 Jan 2005, 09:28 pm »

HI Dstroot,

These Taras are reasonably stiff as they're basically 2-3 solid core 18ga copper wires twisted together for each of a speaker's 'run', comprised of 2 separate cables.. Nor would I reccomend tight bends, as repeatedly doing so tends to break solid core wires.. Neither heavy nor light, the recent pair I saw came with quite servicible spades on one end and banannas on the other, all gold plated.. Tara/Cable Co offrers you the choice. The spades were the same as came on my 7yr old set of Taras, certainly not qualifying as audio 'jewelry' but thick enough as not to bend, but not too thick as to cause problems with normal binding posts. After 7 years of cable swapping, none of the gold plating has worn away.

Seano · « **Reply #14 on:** 31 Jan 2005, 09:32 pm »

If anyone is interested, I've been very happy with my QED Silver Anniversary biwire speaker cable with my 100N+. It's flat and not fat so it's easy to hide, silver plated copper strand and most importantly very good value. I couldn't pick any difference between my DIY Risch cables and these guys. I changed cause the Risch cables weren't long enough to suit the new position and I wasn't keen on repeating the laboured construction. Very happy with the outcome.

For whatever reason, I found it was much cheaper to buy direct from the UK than to buy it in Australia. I got mine from www.hificables.co.uk. They are doing 3m terminated pair in biwire for 112 pounds or the stereo version for 69 pounds (which today is about US$130). Failing that it's 7.45/m biwire or 4.00/m for the stereo.

Tad more expensive than the Tara but probably a heck of a lot easier to get hold of.

PSP · « **Reply #15 on:** 31 Jan 2005, 09:52 pm »

Occam,
If I wanted to go the TFAII wReturn DIY route, I make a + bundle by twisting two wires, and make a return bundle by twisting three wires. What do we then do with the + and return bundles?

- twist them (loosely, tightly, or what?)

or
- bundle them together, like big zip cord

or
- keep them apart

or
- what???

Many thanks,
Peter

Seano · « **Reply #16 on:** 31 Jan 2005, 11:13 pm »

This Tara stuff is beginning to sound more and more like glorified Cat5.

Of which I have shed loads..........hmm

1 twisted pair for +ve and 1 twisted pair plus a half for -ve. Terminate with silver solder and jam into the binding post. Sounds easy enough to try.

Occam · « **Reply #17 on:** 1 Feb 2005, 12:19 am »

Peter,

A complete stereo pair of the TFA II LS cables (with or withot that 'Return' feature) consist of 4 physically separate cables.
Keep them apart.

SamL · « **Reply #18 on:** 1 Feb 2005, 02:34 am »

Quote from: Occam

Philipe,

All I can tell you is that my Tara have 5-6twists/ft, though I don't know how it would change objective/subjective measures as the wires that are twisted together are carrying the same signal, and not both phases as is typical. So the twists/ft are not effecting the capacitance of the cable.....Similarly, the nature of the insulations dielectrive effects shouldn't be as significant. But subjectively, it might, or might not, be critical. Dunno.

quote]

Hi Occam,

Thanks for your detail desc about the Tara speaker cable. It is fascinating to see something so simple to sound good.
A question about the 3 wire type "-" Return wire. They are all twists together - right? How far back is this "none connecting" return wire goes? Is it all the way next to the spade that connected to the amp?

A few years ago I heard about earth the speaker drivers to the power amp case using a separate wire. Have anyone heard about this or tried it?

Have fun,
Sam

Gordy · « **Reply #19 on:** 1 Feb 2005, 02:46 am »

One last oddity about the Tara's, the 18g wire is square, not round. This according to the included Tara propa... info sheet that came with the wires