Opinions sought on comparing two GR products

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RonP

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Opinions sought on comparing two GR products
« on: 7 May 2019, 06:09 pm »
Hello all

After trading a few emails with Danny, I'm posting here at his suggestion.

I'm looking to get some opinions/experiences on speakers from the GR product line. And ideally a live audition - I'm Austin, TX based.

Background:

After more than 10 years without a serious 2 (.1?) channel system at home, I'm wanting to setup a system once again. Ideally these would be the last speakers I'd buy. Yeah right I know. But I'm looking for a pair of large tower speakers for that "big sound". I recently moved out of the apt and rented a house with a 19.5W x 18.5D listening room upstairs. (Actually it's another 8ft4in deep since it's open to the room below)

What I've heard so far:

So back in Q4 I went over to the local maggie dealer and spent some time with a pair of 1.7is. They were not setup perfectly but I certainly got the feel for them. I immediately liked the added details I was hearing to LPs I already knew. He swapped over to Martin Logan ESLs. The sound changed and was pleasant but it also seemed some LPs now sounded flawed. For a final comparison he swapped to a pair of DynAudio towers. Very nice speakers but I lifted the needle about halfway thru the first track. The treble was so clearly localized to a box at the top of the speaker. I just couldn't go back to that limited area of treble.

At another location, I also auditioned some Legacy Focus SE's and completely loved them. Not so much their price. I've also made a mental note that I'd like to audition the Janszen audio floorstanding speakers.

LSAF 2019:

I headed to my first LSAF to once again speak with the Legacy dealer. I found out they're no longer a dealer. Welp. But I also stumbled into Danny's room. ohhhhh... ahhhhhhhh... yes! :thumb: I certainly liked the big bad mamma jammas he had setup, but those were probably a little impractical for me.

After some back and forth w/Danny about some speakers he suggested the X-Oticas:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138007.0

and I also liked the idea of these Neo3/10 (+ M165-16 stack ):
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=160972.0

(I'd add subs to whatever tower I decided upon.)

So I want to get everyone's feeback on the A vs B of these two speakers. I do want extra detail, but not to the extreme where you have to feed the speakers a (basically) perfect signal. Maybe the X-Oticas will have that - I don't know.

I would appreciate what y'all would have to say in this matter.


Tyson

Re: Opinions sought on comparing two GR products
« Reply #1 on: 7 May 2019, 07:10 pm »
If you can stretch the budget I'd get the Super 7 kit.  It really is the last speaker you'll ever own.  Just astonishingly good and in a much higher class than anything you mentioned in your post. 

But if that's not in the budget, I'd rec getting the Neo10/Neo3 and a pair of OB servo subs.  I think it's called "The Monolith".  Mainly because it's about 85% of the Super 7 for a lot less $$.  It gives you the perfectly integrated mids/highs and that beautiful planar OB imaging and details.  And you also get servo OB bass, which quite frankly is a game changer. 

The other cool thing about doing the Monoliths is that if you DO decide at a later date that you want to upgrade to the Super 7s, it's simple matter of changing the top section of the speaker from the Monolith single Neo10/Neo3 to the Super 7 quad stack Neo10s and Neo3.  The base of the speaker (the powered OB bass section) is the same between the 2 speakers.  And trust me, once you have servo powered OB bass, you will not ever, ever, ever want to go back to anything else. 

Peter J

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Re: Opinions sought on comparing two GR products
« Reply #2 on: 7 May 2019, 08:05 pm »
Hi Ron, I built the X-Oticas and have lived with them for better than two years now, so perhaps I can offer some impressions, but not much on the comparison of the two. I'm in Idaho, so not exactly close by, but you'd be welcome to have a listen in a normal living room with furniture and virtually no acoustic treatments. Maybe Danny still has the protos I built and he'd be closer.

 Some things you should know about me. I'm not a hyper detail freak, but rather like a little more relaxed presentation. Not soft or mushy, but natural and organic. Also I'm old and my hearing is...well, not perfect! You can read about my initial impressions (along with some frustration) at the end of my build thread. I've had three different amps hooked to them. All set up as balanced monos close to speaker and the same Cary SLP-03 preamp, also running balanced outputs.

 Initially NCores, which may have attenuated the top end a smidge, but were overall crisp, clean and likable.

Next up were Schiit Vidars, which offered a different perspective. Some things better, some things not, but ever so slightly took the edge off top end which I liked.


More recently, Schiit Aegirs. This is a majic combo for me. The  system exemplifies what I term organic sound. Ho-hum recordings aren't unbearable, which has not always been the case. An easy presentation that doen't dog me after a while. Very listenable. Danny described these as sounding beautiful, and I'd agree. I've had conversations with him about what's being left on the table by not using ribbon tweeter. I get the feeling I made the right choice based on my preferances.  IMO, that "greener grass" that we audio nerds seek is often almost the same color green once we get to other side. So mark me satisfied for the moment.


Should you go this route, I can offer renderings and insight and whatever else a protracted build garners. Just ask.
« Last Edit: 7 May 2019, 09:13 pm by Peter J »

S Clark

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Re: Opinions sought on comparing two GR products
« Reply #3 on: 7 May 2019, 08:21 pm »
How big is your room?  What are your listening preferences?  There are speakers that won't work in a 28x40' chapel that would work fine in a 10x15 extra bedroom.

RonP

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Re: Opinions sought on comparing two GR products
« Reply #4 on: 7 May 2019, 08:32 pm »
How big is your room?  What are your listening preferences?  There are speakers that won't work in a 28x40' chapel that would work fine in a 10x15 extra bedroom.

As yes that's a good question. I forgot to mention my tastes are 99% rock music. 60s+70s classic rock, 80's pop, 90's alternative.

(Pink Floyd for life!  :thumb: )

re: room size
19.5W x 18.5D listening room upstairs w/9ft ceilings. (Actually it's another 8ft4in deep since it's open to the room below at the back of the 18.5ft depth)

S Clark

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Re: Opinions sought on comparing two GR products
« Reply #5 on: 7 May 2019, 09:02 pm »
As yes that's a good question. I forgot to mention my tastes are 99% rock music. 60s+70s classic rock, 80's pop, 90's alternative.

(Pink Floyd for life!  :thumb: )

re: room size
19.5W x 18.5D listening room upstairs w/9ft ceilings. (Actually it's another 8ft4in deep since it's open to the room below at the back of the 18.5ft depth)
I'd find a used pair of Super V's and make a reasonable offer.  Are they as good as the Super7? No, but they are within striking distance, and great rock speakers.  Are they as good as the X-Otica's? Again, I don't think so, but you can find them finished and if the discount is right...

mlundy57

Re: Opinions sought on comparing two GR products
« Reply #6 on: 8 May 2019, 12:34 am »
Ron,

When you were at LSAF did you make it to room 207? I had the smallest version of the NX-Oticas, NX-Otica monitors paired with dual driver servo subs, in 207.







I also have a pair of Danny's floorstanding N3 towers. These are a transmission line design. They are paired up with a sealed 12" servo sub.




I live in the Tulsa area. Not exactly close to you but doable if you would like to hear either of these.

With your room dimensions you can handle the regular version of the NX-Otica, which is the one Peter has, and either two or three driver servo subs. I'd recommend the three driver version which is what Danny had in his room at LSAF.

I haven't heard either the Neo 3/10 or the Super 7 monitors, though I will be building one or both of those out in the next 6 months or so.

Mike




RonP

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Re: Opinions sought on comparing two GR products
« Reply #7 on: 8 May 2019, 01:28 pm »
Hello again everyone. I wanted to take a moment to thank everyone for their replies. You've given me a lot to think about. I really appreciate the listening offers everyone's extended. I think I saw on one of the stickied posts there's an owner here in Austin. I should PM him.  :D


@Tyson - The monolith later transitioning up to the super 7 is a very interesting idea.

@PeterJ - I hear you on the detail. I want more than average so I can pickup each backup singer, but not crazy amounts of detail. I have a Vidar as well. So that's interesting news about their new amp the Aegirs.

@S Clark - I appreciate the option, but knowing me, I'd opt for the X-oticas over the Super Vs. Thanks for taking the time to throw out another option.

@Mike

Yes we spoke at LSAF. I had to leave early so I didn't get to hear anything but the bookshelf speakers. [Those were amazing btw] It was nice talking to you - I asked you a million questions about cherry veneer and you played some Roger Waters for me via Roon. You've built and heard a lot of systems. I am looking forward to seeing your thread once you have the Neo3/10 & Super 7s built. If I can't find a local woodworker to do veneering, you're my guy for that  :). It was super good meeting you.




Captainhemo

Re: Opinions sought on comparing two GR products
« Reply #8 on: 8 May 2019, 04:57 pm »
Is there  a reason why you  are looking  at the  X-Otica vs the  NX-Otica  ?   I would be my recommendation to go withthe  NX   version(s) as they use the  full  open  gr Neo3 tweeter while the  X-Otica uses the   Peerless 1"   dome tweeter  in  a non  OB  configuration.  I like the   Peerless  dome  but  IMHO it  doesn't   offer teh same  performance  as the   OB Gr neo3 planer  tweeter.

I've got a ways to go before  I can  offer up a full comparison of the  NX  - series with  Ob servo bass   ( we have had them all   in here) to the   Super 7's but  I can say  that  the  NX-Otica's with   upgraded  M165x lower woofers  were in myroom for   about 2.5 yrs and I was extremely happy  with them.  I prefered teh   floor standing  model over the NX-Otica Mtm... the added impact of the   lower  4 M165  or M165x's  was worth more  than the   non high passed  NQ's  of the  Mtm version.

I haven't  built out a  pair of the   Neo3?Neo10 OB monitors yet but  I do know tha the  6.25"  width is going to allow them to image incredibly well. As Tyson mentioned,  an added bonus of these is that they share the  gr Neo3 and the   BG Neo10 withthe super 7's  which leaves you  an  upgrade path down the orad if at some point  you  choose to do so.

I'll post  some  additional info with regards  to the   NX-Otica  vs  super 7   in due time... need to spend some time withthe  7's

jay

mlundy57

Re: Opinions sought on comparing two GR products
« Reply #9 on: 9 May 2019, 12:05 am »
Hello again everyone. I wanted to take a moment to thank everyone for their replies. You've given me a lot to think about. I really appreciate the listening offers everyone's extended. I think I saw on one of the stickied posts there's an owner here in Austin. I should PM him.  :D


@Tyson - The monolith later transitioning up to the super 7 is a very interesting idea.

@PeterJ - I hear you on the detail. I want more than average so I can pickup each backup singer, but not crazy amounts of detail. I have a Vidar as well. So that's interesting news about their new amp the Aegirs.

@S Clark - I appreciate the option, but knowing me, I'd opt for the X-oticas over the Super Vs. Thanks for taking the time to throw out another option.

@Mike

Yes we spoke at LSAF. I had to leave early so I didn't get to hear anything but the bookshelf speakers. [Those were amazing btw] It was nice talking to you - I asked you a million questions about cherry veneer and you played some Roger Waters for me via Roon. You've built and heard a lot of systems. I am looking forward to seeing your thread once you have the Neo3/10 & Super 7s built. If I can't find a local woodworker to do veneering, you're my guy for that  :). It was super good meeting you.

Ron,

I remember. You are the only one who asked for Roger Waters at the show. I'm sorry you missed the NX-Oticas. I only had the bookshelf speakers in the system 15-20% of the time. In the future, if you would like to listen to a pair of speakers someone has in their room but are not playing, ask to hear them. Most of us are more than willing to accommodate. I had someone in later in the show when the Oticas were playing who wanted to listen to my desktop monitors so I swapped them in.

Mike

mlundy57

Re: Opinions sought on comparing two GR products
« Reply #10 on: 9 May 2019, 12:06 am »
Is there  a reason why you  are looking  at the  X-Otica vs the  NX-Otica  ?   I would be my recommendation to go withthe  NX   version(s) as they use the  full  open  gr Neo3 tweeter while the  X-Otica uses the   Peerless 1"   dome tweeter  in  a non  OB  configuration.  I like the   Peerless  dome  but  IMHO it  doesn't   offer teh same  performance  as the   OB Gr neo3 planer  tweeter.

I've got a ways to go before  I can  offer up a full comparison of the  NX  - series with  Ob servo bass   ( we have had them all   in here) to the   Super 7's but  I can say  that  the  NX-Otica's with   upgraded  M165x lower woofers  were in myroom for   about 2.5 yrs and I was extremely happy  with them.  I prefered teh   floor standing  model over the NX-Otica Mtm... the added impact of the   lower  4 M165  or M165x's  was worth more  than the   non high passed  NQ's  of the  Mtm version.

I haven't  built out a  pair of the   Neo3?Neo10 OB monitors yet but  I do know tha the  6.25"  width is going to allow them to image incredibly well. As Tyson mentioned,  an added bonus of these is that they share the  gr Neo3 and the   BG Neo10 withthe super 7's  which leaves you  an  upgrade path down the orad if at some point  you  choose to do so.

I'll post  some  additional info with regards  to the   NX-Otica  vs  super 7   in due time... need to spend some time withthe  7's

jay

Jay,

When you say X-Oticas, do you mean the X-Statiks?

Mike

RonP

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Re: Opinions sought on comparing two GR products
« Reply #11 on: 9 May 2019, 12:47 am »
 I didn't realize there were both X-Oticas and NX-Oticas until well thru this thread  :o

Captainhemo

Re: Opinions sought on comparing two GR products
« Reply #12 on: 9 May 2019, 03:26 am »
Jay,

When you say X-Oticas, do you mean the X-Statiks?

Mike

No,  NX-Otica  /  X-Otica... I think  Peter   is the only one with a  pair of the X-Otica's   aside from the prototypes Danny  has .(

As I mentioned above,   I  do like the  Peerless dome tweeter  but  I don;t  believe it  competes  with the  OB GR  Neo3 ( even he closed back Neo3 PDr as i had in the  OB 7's)...    in the  confgiguration of this speaker  I see  no benefit of  going the  X  vs  NX   route

jay

mlundy57

Re: Opinions sought on comparing two GR products
« Reply #13 on: 9 May 2019, 04:16 am »
No,  NX-Otica  /  X-Otica... I think  Peter   is the only one with a  pair of the X-Otica's   aside from the prototypes Danny  has .(

As I mentioned above,   I  do like the  Peerless dome tweeter  but  I don;t  believe it  competes  with the  OB GR  Neo3 ( even he closed back Neo3 PDr as i had in the  OB 7's)...    in the  confgiguration of this speaker  I see  no benefit of  going the  X  vs  NX   route

jay

I didn’t know there was an X-Otica. I knew Danny was talking about one a few years ago that had 8” servo subs on the bottom instead of M-165s but I missed that an X-Otica model was developed.

Mike

Captainhemo

Re: Opinions sought on comparing two GR products
« Reply #14 on: 9 May 2019, 02:23 pm »
Ahh, how soon we forget    :lol:
Peter's  amazing  work 
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=139529.0


jay

Tyson

Re: Opinions sought on comparing two GR products
« Reply #15 on: 9 May 2019, 02:51 pm »
No,  NX-Otica  /  X-Otica... I think  Peter   is the only one with a  pair of the X-Otica's   aside from the prototypes Danny  has .(

As I mentioned above,   I  do like the  Peerless dome tweeter  but  I don;t  believe it  competes  with the  OB GR  Neo3 ( even he closed back Neo3 PDr as i had in the  OB 7's)...    in the  confgiguration of this speaker  I see  no benefit of  going the  X  vs  NX   route

jay

Yeah, once you hear how amazing the Neo drivers are, it's really hard to go back to domes (and cones).

mlundy57

Re: Opinions sought on comparing two GR products
« Reply #16 on: 9 May 2019, 03:36 pm »
Ahh, how soon we forget    :lol:
Peter's  amazing  work 
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=139529.0


jay

Now I remember that😃. That was a great build. Man, I’m getting old ☹️

Mike

tg3

Re: Opinions sought on comparing two GR products
« Reply #17 on: 28 May 2019, 06:05 pm »
For your tastes in music, the Super V is a safe bet.

corndog71

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Re: Opinions sought on comparing two GR products
« Reply #18 on: 30 May 2019, 02:24 am »
I’m with Tyson on this.  The Monoliths are stunning!  The combination of Neo drivers and OB bass are nearly unbeatable for the money.  They are very easy to listen to and never fatiguing.  Hell, if I didn’t have so much other stuff to do I would listen to my Super 7’s all of the time!

Now if that’s too steep of a price, I would recommend any N-series speaker with a single servo sub. 

I also get great sound from a pair of X-Statiks with a single servo sub.

With any of Danny’s speakers you can’t go wrong. 

RonP

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Re: Opinions sought on comparing two GR products
« Reply #19 on: 30 May 2019, 03:45 pm »
Awesome. Appreciate the continued feedback.