[Elizabeth]

Thanks for the popcorn Photon46! 

[redbook]

To the doubters and naysayers regarding the ability of cables to influence reproduced sound, I would ask you to consider the following. Shunyata Research, a favorite target of those who love to cast the curse of "snake oil purveyor," has another company devoted to serving the medical community called Clear Image Scientific. They market power cords and power conditioners to hospitals for the purpose 
 Bravo, well said thanks.. :thumb:of of increasing the resolution of medical imaging devices in electrophysiology labs by reducing noise riding on power lines. Clear Image's products use the same build characteristics and materials as Shunyata's audio products. (If you are of the mindset that power line noise is of no consequence to the end result your audio system reproduces, then continue with your current skepticism.) Here is a link to Clear Image's website and a list of of some of their medical clients:

http://clearimagescientific.com/case-studies/

Here is a short video from Shunyata showing an Axpona demo of a Clear Image power cord's noise reduction capabilites:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=shunyata+axpona

I find Shunyata/Clear Image provides rather clear evidence that their products actually do affect power line noise riding on electrical lines. If one accepts the evidence that a power cord CAN affect power line noise, then one confronts two further possibilities.

One, while power line noise can be affected by a power cord, it's inconsequential to the sound an audio system reproduces. Also, I suppose it's possible that the frequencies of noise affecting medical imaging equipment is different from that which affects audio equipment and could account for different degrees of effectiveness in each application.

Two, if one accepts that power line noise can affect audio reproduction, then perhaps the inability of ABX blind testing to establish definitive effectiveness illustrates that ABX testing is an imperfect arbiter of effectiveness. Of course, that is another can of worms we can debate endlessly as well. 

[witchdoctor]

I did a test of two power cords. The red one tasted like roasted garlic with a hint of licorice. The other black with brilliant blue metallic threads was clearly more like port wine with  a hint of Brazil nuts and pork chops.. 
I was able to do this test only once due to the dealer throwing me out the door.
I have tried to do a repeat of the test, but so far no luck.

Thank goodness for intelligent dealers 

[witchdoctor]

Sugar pills.....
They work great, till you die.

Thank God double blind tests....when done properly....
work on all things that truly matter in life.

Not audio though.

Look at it this way.....if there were ANY, or JUST ONE double blind/ABX tests anywhere
on this big ol internet that proved wire made a difference the snake oil salesmen that sold you
these wires would parade that fact around like a medalist at the olympics.
But they dont, cause theyre aren't any.....not even one......think about that, not one.

Anything can change the sound.....
Till your bias free of shiny new toys.

So you bought a Sony Walkman, congratulations.  Everyone else has oil of snake spinning on their turntables or whatever. Great call!

[witchdoctor]

FWIW- I use Virtual Dynamics Nite power cords on my active speakers and my Marantz processor. Were they expensive? YES, no doubt. Will they last a lifetime? It has been more than 10 years and counting. Was 10 plus years of pure sound emanating from the quitest of black backgrounds while gripping my system with complete and utter control worth the investment? How can you measure joy? I didn't write this review, but I can agree with it:

https://www.audioasylum.com/reviews/Cable/Virtual-Dynamics/Nite/cables/56393.html

[redbook]

 I run 3  Nordost Vishnus plus a Shiva....one for each amp, CD3 and the equalizer...has been significant effect on line noise. ....and the snake oil portion keeps me regular...LOL

[timind]

I run 3  Nordost Vishnus plus a Shiva....one for each amp, CD3 and the equalizer...has been significant effect on line noise. ....and the snake oil portion keeps me regular...LOL

[Photon46]

My experiences with cables of all varieties has been mixed. Many decades ago, when I had Adcom separates, a Denon 1650 cd player, and Maggie MGC's, I didn't hear much difference with cable changes. As time passed and my equipment has become more resolving, it's not been hard to hear the differences between cables in most applications. There's not been a correlation between money spent and results achieved. My favorite speaker cables so far have been inexpensive 10 gauge Western Electric cloth insulated wires. I've never experienced "jaw dropping" increases in sound quality with a power cord, but good a/c cords do have a cumulative effect as more are added to your system. I can also understand why someone might find power cords to be a waste of money. I know listeners who don't seem to focus at all on the things that power cords affect most like ambience retrieval and reduction of background noise levels.

[PDR]

Keeping with the audio theme, this thread reminds me of a
Doobie bros song....

"As he rises to her apology....."

Nuff said done with this silliness, have to get my walkman.

[Freo-1]

Here is a link regarding power cords.  It makes a lot of sense.


http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=6431

[Elizabeth]

Haven't we, and thousands of others ALREADY HAD this conversation? Like thousands of times?
If ANY of you happened to have missed those, forgive me. Carry on. 

[drummermitchell]

That,s why I dumped all my Shunyata anacondas and python helixes and use my stock cords that came with my Bryston amps,12 to be exact.
The one thing that made a huge difference were my two Torus PIU’s.
I do love how the snakes use pipe foam insulation to give the eye candy appeal,bigger is better.
Power line wire-step down to house wire- down to a power snake-to the component wiring.
I guess the snake doesn’t care what the component wiring is or the end of the snakes blades are ect ect .
Keep spending boys,did that shit years ago,after the BS rush were back music.

[Elizabeth]

Here are some odd tidbits which can either make you shake your head in disbelief... or be glad to know...   
So Michael Green who has a business which involves tuning rooms and systems (and is successful btw with lots of big name places having been tuned) mentioned a tiny tweak. Loosening the AC duplex, just a little. makes the sound ;more natural'. I tried it. and the first impression is yeah.. wow. But the downside is if you have a really resolving system, the vocals get a tiny bit smeared. And the more outlets in the chain you do, the more smearing.  So, slightly loose outlet CHANGES THE SOUND... Yup. So I have 17 Furutech GTX-D duplex in my system, and only a pair in one box are slightly loosened. (rubber pad under them) It seemed to me after awhile I got tired of the loose sound. and went back and tightened up again. After back and forth, I now just leave those two, (going to the power conditioners)   
A less mind blowing bit is the difference between Furutech GTX-D Gold (plated) and GTX-D NCF Rhodium plated duplex. I have a pair of them one Gold, one Rhidium in hte outlet box for the amp. Moving just the plug end from one to the other changes the sound. Yup, Gold is warmer, heavy, Rhodium is tight, lighter and clear really clear.
Similarly two AC powercords for the one Furman REF 20 power conditioner The Pangea AC14XL is more neutral. the other one a DH Labs with Furutech '28' Rhodium plugs is warmer and fuzzier sounding.

So you guys can argue until the cows come home. I know what I got. Having swapped them many times. 

Added: I remember a guy who was selling $$$$$ powercords, only someone discovered the wires was basic Builders Square or Menard's extension cords wrapped with thick garden hose. He managed to avoid jail, and now he is selling stuff again.

[Calypte]

I asked for science.  Except for the study of line noise in medical systems -- which I don't see as particularly relevant to home audio -- all that's been offered here is uncontrolled "I replaced cord X with cord Y, and WOW! -- I heard a difference!" 

That's not science.  But I've learned what I need to know.

[redbook]

Yes, it's actually what you don't hear is the point.

[Photon46]

For those whose minds have not been closed to the possibility that mutual benefits can be realized in both audio and medical devices by addressing power line noise, read on. Clear Image Scientific's (and Shunyata's) websites explain exactly why medical devices and audio share common problems which their cords and conditioners address: http://clearimagescientific.com/technology/

I'm not referencing this manufacturer's products and websites because I'm a zealous fan of Caelin Gabriel's products. Unlike so many in the cable business, Caelin is a reasearch scientist with a no BS background in hard sciences with military applications. He knows that the traditional measures of cable performance that cable naysayers insist define the only relevant parameters (inductance, resistance, capacitance) can't explain what's going on if a cable DOES affect sound. He's developed testing equipment that purports to offer objective evidence. One may question whether what he measures actually has audible effects, but Shunyata/Clear Image does not market their products with fairy dust and voodoo.

[Ola_S]

Yup, Gold is warmer, heavy, Rhodium is tight, lighter and clear really clear.
Similarly two AC powercords for the one Furman REF 20 power conditioner The Pangea AC14XL is more neutral. the other one a DH Labs with Furutech '28' Rhodium plugs is warmer and fuzzier sounding.

Since you are writing the way you do, how things ARE and not how you perceive them to be, I assume you performed controlled blind test where you could confirm your impression with a statistical significance of at least >95%?

[Speedskater]

Warning:
Cryoing any AC power system component will invalidate the 'UL' rating of that component. All AC wires, cables, plugs and receptacles have a minimum/maximum storage temperature range. Go above or below that range and the 'UL' rating is invalidated.

[S Clark]

I asked for science.  Except for the study of line noise in medical systems -- which I don't see as particularly relevant to home audio -- all that's been offered here is uncontrolled "I replaced cord X with cord Y, and WOW! -- I heard a difference!" 

That's not science. But I've learned what I need to know.

That's good.  I don't think I've ever seen one of these threads where anyone learned anything. 

[Photon46]

That's good.  I don't think I've ever seen one of these threads where anyone learned anything.

Amen to that brother. I really wonder why we still participate in these threads after so many years of arguing the same points. There's a philosophical and perceptual divide as wide between cable atheists and believers as there is between the religious variety. The non believers think those who hear cable differences are as gullible as those that bought Papal dispensations during the Middle Ages. The cable believers keep hoping the atheists will someday trust their ears and subjective impressions instead of insisting on measurable science to validate any reason to listen for differences. The twain, in general, shall never meet.

I know that this tangential subject is of little relevance to the discussion at hand, but I sometimes think believing in the efficacy of audio cables is a little like the study of acupuncture (from allopathic medicine's perspective.) If you look at the government's NIH website for their scientist's perspective on acupuncture's efficacy, they first state that the science for validating claims for acupuncture is extremely problematical as viewed by the gold standards of double blind testing. Nonetheless, the experiential data from the entire aggregate of  field use leads them to to find it efficacious and recommendable for quite a variety of maladies. Cables and audio components interactions are vastly simpler than the human body of course, but maybe there's a lesson there.