Dan’s Wedgie Build

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Danny23

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Dan’s Wedgie Build
« on: 27 Apr 2019, 10:50 pm »
Hello, AC folks! My name is Dan.  I’m a long-time lurker, but haven’t contributed up until now.  I’ve begun building my wedgie kit, so I figured I’d share my adventure, and ask a few questions along the way.  I’m a true novice, so I fully intend to tap into the group’s knowledge base.  I have a pair of dual 12” servo subs and amps waiting for a wedge base, so I’ll share that build here too








The glue up has gone well thus far. I cut out the short wing, and spent WAY too long sanding and getting the shape just right, but it came out pretty perfect.

Now a few questions, if I may.

1.) My current setup are Maggies (1,7i or mini Maggies w/dual DWMs, depending on my mood).  I’m using a Crown 2502 amp.  I think the Crown will be doing the Wedgies a disservice, so I’m considering an upgrade to some tube goodness. Do you think a Bottlehead Kaiju (8 watts) will be enough?  Note that I’m upgrading the Maggie’s because I want more dynamics, but I also love the tube sound, and the BH kit sounds fun to build. Alternatively, I could do a pair of strapped Kaijus (16w each), but that is a bit pricey. I listen to a broad mix - classical, jazz, and rock.  I do like it pretty loud, but not “rip-your-head-off” loud.
2.) Can someone with more experience please double check my crossover layout?  See below.





3.) Does anyone have a drawing of a dual 12” sub wedge base?  I found a few build threads, but I haven’t found a drawing with dimensions.

Thanks for reading!

Dan

mlundy57

Re: Dan’s Wedgie Build
« Reply #1 on: 28 Apr 2019, 02:22 am »
I’ve powered my Wedgies with a 5wpc tube amp (OddWatt Podwatt). They sounded pretty good with it but they sounded a lot better with a 15-20 watt tube amp. I don’t know how the Bottlehead amp will perform. If the room isn’t too big it should be fine.

I’ve built the wedge base. I’ll look to see if I have plans. The ones I built were for three 8” servo woofers. I don’t know if Danny has got more of those drivers in yet.

Mike

Danny23

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Re: Dan’s Wedgie Build
« Reply #2 on: 28 Apr 2019, 01:08 pm »
Would rotating the smaller inductor 90deg work better?  Like this:



corndog71

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Re: Dan’s Wedgie Build
« Reply #3 on: 28 Apr 2019, 05:21 pm »
Bottlehead makes some nice kits.  I still use their Reduction phono preamp. 

For low to moderately sensitive speakers I would recommend more power.

http://www.tubes4hifi.com/ is another great source for tube amps at reasonable prices.

Captainhemo

Re: Dan’s Wedgie Build
« Reply #4 on: 28 Apr 2019, 05:35 pm »
You'd be better off having  the  small inductor on  edge in between the  2 larger ones  on their sides so that if it  were to roll ( like a  tire) it would roll into the center of one of the larger inductors.  Keep the large ones  as far apart as possible

jay

Danny23

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Re: Dan’s Wedgie Build
« Reply #5 on: 28 Apr 2019, 06:12 pm »
Like this?  Would it be better to stand up the inductor on the right too?



mlundy57

Re: Dan’s Wedgie Build
« Reply #6 on: 28 Apr 2019, 06:18 pm »
No

Have you read through the “Crossover assembly 101” thread in the sticky section of the GR Research circle main page? There are some good tips there.

Be sure the board you are going to build the crossover on fits in the place you want to put it. I neglected to do that and ended up with the crossovers sticking out the back of the speakers.

Mike

Danny23

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Re: Dan’s Wedgie Build
« Reply #7 on: 29 Apr 2019, 09:54 pm »
No

Have you read through the “Crossover assembly 101” thread in the sticky section of the GR Research circle main page? There are some good tips there.

Be sure the board you are going to build the crossover on fits in the place you want to put it. I neglected to do that and ended up with the crossovers sticking out the back of the speakers.

Mike

Yeah, I read the “Crossover 101” thread, but I reread it per your recommendation.  I understand standing up the inductor on the right isn’t a good idea.

I remember seeing your crossovers hanging out the back. Still beautiful speakers, regardless.  I’ll make sure I do a trial fit prior to doing anything permanent.

To those that paint your speakers, and fill the seams with wood putty - do you have any tricks to sanding the hardened putty in the interior corners?  It’s extremely difficult to get a good sanding motion in there.

mlundy57

Re: Dan’s Wedgie Build
« Reply #8 on: 29 Apr 2019, 10:44 pm »
Yeah, I read the “Crossover 101” thread, but I reread it per your recommendation.  I understand standing up the inductor on the right isn’t a good idea.

I remember seeing your crossovers hanging out the back. Still beautiful speakers, regardless.  I’ll make sure I do a trial fit prior to doing anything permanent.

To those that paint your speakers, and fill the seams with wood putty - do you have any tricks to sanding the hardened putty in the interior corners?  It’s extremely difficult to get a good sanding motion in there.

If you havent already put wood putty in there you can use epoxy (something like West Systems epoxy, not the 5 minute epoxy you get at the home stores) or a couple coats of a sanding sealer like Sinzer Sealcoat. These are a lot easier to sand. The Sealcoat is easier to get and a lot less expensive than the epoxy.

If you already have the wood putty in, a triangular shaped oscillating profile sander will help with the sanding.

ebag4

Re: Dan’s Wedgie Build
« Reply #9 on: 2 May 2019, 02:39 am »
Hi Dan, I have experience with the Kaiju and the original Wedgies.  IMO they make an excellent pairing.  The Wedgie is one of my favorite speakers, in fact I am currently working on a new bass solution for the Wedgies since I used my 12” servos in a subsequent NX Otica build.

With regard to the wedge bass build using the 12” servos, I did not like the one I built, the H frame is far superior.  I believe Mike may have had success with his wedge bass unit. I now believe I built mine too small, I worked to keep the size as small as possible, and in the end it didn’t work out. In hindsight I believe it was so tight that when the drivers were pumping hard they were negatively impacting each other, the excursion appeared to get non linear.

The room the Wedgies live in is very small, 10.5’x12.5’x8’, well treated and dedicated so placement is not an issue.  The Wedgies have produced some amazing listening sessions.  In a larger room you could run out of gas, but with 12” servos handling the bass, if you high pass the Kaiju like I did, the 8 watts goes further than you might think.

Good luck with the build and let me know if there are any questions I can answer for you.

Best,
Ed


Danny23

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Re: Dan’s Wedgie Build
« Reply #10 on: 7 May 2019, 01:46 am »
The crossover schematic lists an optional bypass cap.  What’s a bypass cap, what benefit would it provide, and if you used one, what brand and values did you use?

Regarding my work thus far, I made the mistake of using wood putty on the seams before getting the epoxy recommended above, so I’m still sanding - trying to make them perfect.

Another question - does anyone have the schematic for the line level high pass filter Danny has mentioned in a couple of threads?  I’d like to filter out the low end from reaching the wedgies.


Captainhemo

Re: Dan’s Wedgie Build
« Reply #11 on: 7 May 2019, 03:32 am »
To  improve  charge/discharge  rates of the main cap,  use    a  .022 or .047 uf bypass cap on that   high pass cap.  depending on the  gear in your  system, this may improve  clarity and definitiion separation.
There are a  ton of  diferent    "flavours you can go with, some of the more popular  would be the sonicap Platinum ( not sure you'll find them any longer),  the  Jupiter  Coppers,  the   new  milFlex Copper  etc.    If you  want to try  it onthe  cheaper side,   try   using  a  Soniccap  Gen II  or      a  vishay  Roderstein  ... ....  I've use d  the  vishay  roderstein  .1 uF's  in some more  budget orientated builds with  very good  results.  I have also heard  some good things  about     the  Dayton Audio  Silver  line of caps but have never  tried them
Personally, if you  tyr the   bypass caps and go  for one othe less expensive options, I'd get  4  and the  the caps  in  the woofer circuit as well

The  cap value  for the nline filter  will depend onthe input impedence of your  amp....  they'll all be unique .. let  danny  know  your   input impedence and he can  guide you  accordingly.
jay

Danny23

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Re: Dan’s Wedgie Build
« Reply #12 on: 22 May 2019, 12:19 am »
I know I’m slow to update this thread, but I’m plugging along working on the Wedgies when I find time. I’m really enjoying the process, and trying to enjoy it rather than trying to rush through to get to the end. There’s something satisfying about making consistent progress, and seeing it come together.

I just completed the final primer coat, which is the last of five coats.  I did some light sanding with 400 grit between each coat.  Next up are the color coats.  I’m going with a gloss light putty grey (the white color in the pics is primer).  I know pics are a requirement, so I’ve attached them to the end of this post.

I still need to pick a design for my dual 12” OB servo subs.  I originally planned to make a wedge shaped base unit (haha - a base “bass” unit), but that was up until Ed’s negative feedback on the wedge design compared to his H-frames.  That leaves me with choosing between H frames and W frames.  I plan to place the Wedgies on top of the base units.  Are there any sound differences between H and W frames?  I’m concerned the H frames would place the tweeters higher than ear level, but the W frame design would place them at a more desirable height.  However, the Wedgie base is 16” long (front to back), and the W frame is only 13.5” deep (front to back). I’d prefer to not have them overhang - I’d prefer them to have a more a finished look.  If I extend the W frame to be an extra 3” deep, wouldn’t it deepen the “cell” is the OB, and shift the resonant frequency too low, and possibly into the passband of the subwoofers?  I need these to reach up to a 200hz crossover point, so I don’t want to compromise the response just to gain a little more cabinet depth.  Danny R, do you have any insight on this design change?

Does anyone have any experience with the Elekit TU-8600?  Still shopping for a tube amp kit for these Wedgies.

Enough with the questions, onto the pics.









mlundy57

Re: Dan’s Wedgie Build
« Reply #13 on: 22 May 2019, 12:34 am »
Looking good.

Go with the H-frames. It’s the better design and it doesn’t put the tweeters too high. 

Mike

Early B.

Re: Dan’s Wedgie Build
« Reply #14 on: 22 May 2019, 02:27 am »
Go with the H-frames. It’s the better design and it doesn’t put the tweeters too high. 

Yep. Final answer.

Danny23

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Re: Dan’s Wedgie Build
« Reply #15 on: 22 May 2019, 10:46 am »
Yep. Final answer.

Haha. Well, I guess that settles that!  I’ll build some H-frames. I’d like to deepen the entire H frame by a few inches to prevent the Wedgie base from overhanging the back.  I’d keep the subwoofer baffle centered, so the front and rear “cells” would each deepen by about 1.5”.  I understand this lowers the resonant frequency, but I don’t know by how much.  Can someone please help me understand if this change will impact the 200hz crossover point?  I’ll live with the overhang if this change will impact the response.

Early B.

Re: Dan’s Wedgie Build
« Reply #16 on: 22 May 2019, 11:52 am »
I’d like to deepen the entire H frame by a few inches to prevent the Wedgie base from overhanging the back. 

Keep it simple and build the stock H frames. Just make the top panel the same dimensions as the base plate. My H frame top panel and base plate are 17" wide and 16" deep which is the same depth as your wedgie base.   

Danny23

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Re: Dan’s Wedgie Build
« Reply #17 on: 22 May 2019, 12:06 pm »
Keep it simple and build the stock H frames. Just make the top panel the same dimensions as the base plate. My H frame top panel and base plate are 17" wide and 16" deep which is the same depth as your wedgie base.   

That’s an option, but aesthetically speaking, I’d prefer the look of a deeper “cabinet,” but not at the cost of the sound.

drmike

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Re: Dan’s Wedgie Build
« Reply #18 on: 22 May 2019, 01:13 pm »
hello, are these flat packs and drivers still available?
thanks,
drmike

Danny23

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Re: Dan’s Wedgie Build
« Reply #19 on: 22 May 2019, 01:17 pm »
hello, are these flat packs and drivers still available?
thanks,
drmike

Hey, drmike.  I don’t think these are available anymore because the LGK midrange drivers aren’t available.