[audioengr]

All these chips, receivers and yes, even clocks have sound signatures. For example, NDK SDAs sound very different from Crysteks.

I wonder if Steve’s Syncro Mesh would be a better choice for our Spdif DACs.  Just feed it with a cheap Allo Digione.

Steve, is the Syncro sensitive to what’s upstream?

Not really, although a good coax cable matters.  Lots of my customers use just a Sonos Connect and a Synchro-Mesh and they say it beats everything they have tried.  Identical SQ to my $3K Interchange renderer for most systems.

BTW, here is the Digione jitter versus my Interchange:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154299.0

Steve N.

[WGH]

I found a photo of a stand alone WaveIO in a case, the builder used the J9 header with a LED display:

The J9 Header are for sample rate LEDs and additional signals:
L1 = 44.1 kHz
L2 = 48 kHz
L3 = 88.2 kHz
L4 = 96 kHz
L5 = 176.4 kHz
L6 = 192 kHz
L7 = Host Active
L8 = Audio Streaming.
Host Active is ON when the card is plugged into the USB port and is recognized.

[mresseguie]

Here's what I'm trying out:

I already mentioned the Ciunas converter. It's sitting at a friend's home waiting for my return in 7 days(!). I just ordered Tommy's Cherry USB converter and his 1 ft SPDiF cable. I'll order the Schiit Eitr in a couple days. The fourth unit <hopefully> will be an Analog Research Technology Legato. It's being assembled/tweaked now.

There are a couple other converters that look interesting, but their price tags are in the >$1500.00 range. Perhaps, I'm shooting myself in the foot by excluding the more expensive units? Dunno.

I got to listen to a friend's Gustard converter (in his system, so I can't know its impact). He likes it, and said it is much better than his previous converter (forgot which one). The price is certainly attractive.

Once my system has reawakened and settled down again, I will begin trying out the various converters. Almost popcorn time!

 

[OrangeCrush]

Here's what I'm trying out:

I already mentioned the Ciunas converter. It's sitting at a friend's home waiting for my return in 7 days(!). I just ordered Tommy's Cherry USB converter and his 1 ft SPDiF cable. I'll order the Schiit Eitr in a couple days. The fourth unit <hopefully> will be an Analog Research Technology Legato. It's being assembled/tweaked now.

There are a couple other converters that look interesting, but their price tags are in the >$1500.00 range. Perhaps, I'm shooting myself in the foot by excluding the more expensive units? Dunno.

I got to listen to a friend's Gustard converter (in his system, so I can't know its impact). He likes it, and said it is much better than his previous converter (forgot which one). The price is certainly attractive.

Once my system has reawakened and settled down again, I will begin trying out the various converters. Almost popcorn time!

 

I can’t wait. So Pat is still building Legatos? That is good news. Did he share any info on what’s new?

[gefski]

Schiit has a new proprietary USB implementation. Unison USB.  See Jason Stoddard's comments here. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up.701900/page-2939#post-14793313
Sounds like Wyrd and Eitr are going away.

[lokie]

I can’t wait. So Pat is still building Legatos? That is good news. Did he share any info on what’s new?

In had no idea. That's cool!
 I just had mine upgraded with new crystals and clocks but I didn't know he was still building new.

[art]

I can’t wait. So Pat is still building Legatos? That is good news. Did he share any info on what’s new?

Yes..............very long story short (well, as short as it can be), we are back up and running. We moved (the real long story), and after almost 3 years of limbo, things are returning to "normal". (When have we ever been accused of being "normal"?)

Actually, there will be 2 versions: the original, with lots of necessary changes; and a smaller, lighter version, designed mainly for the export market.

Maybe I will get around to describing the 2 versions in the proper place of the forum.

I will point out that one of the issues on the original version was we had to change power transformers, as the ones we used were no longer available. (I think someone bought that company up, and has since resumed production, but burned once.) The replacement got lots of complaints, from places like Germany, where it was claimed they buzzed. (They probably did, but no way for us to know that.) The new version will use those transformers, and so might be best only be made available to US customers. Maybe.

The other one uses a SMPS wall wart. But costs half as much. And half as long, half as tall, and half as wide. And will only come in black.

[art]

In had no idea. That's cool!
 I just had mine upgraded with new crystals and clocks but I didn't know he was still building new.

Both versions will use the same clocks, with the same performance level. Which turns out to be around 10 dB better than what the original ones were. (Which were already better than what others were using, or will use.)

Such a deal!

[art]

I just ordered Tommy's Cherry USB converter and his 1 ft SPDiF cable.

Go ahead and hate me, but why in the world would you want to use a 1 m cable?

I guess it could be worse..................like maybe 1 foot.................

[AmpDesigner333]

Both versions will use the same clocks, with the same performance level. Which turns out to be around 10 dB better than what the original ones were. (Which were already better than what others were using, or will use.)

Such a deal!

What's 10dB better?  Are we still talking about USB to SPDIF?

[AmpDesigner333]

As I mentioned before, jitter doesn't affect the performance of a well designed DAC.

[audioengr]

Go ahead and hate me, but why in the world would you want to use a 1 m cable?

I guess it could be worse..................like maybe 1 foot.................

This is why:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue14/spdif.htm

Ignore it at your peril.

[audioengr]

As I mentioned before, jitter doesn't affect the performance of a well designed DAC.

As I mentioned before, I have yet to hear ANY DAC that is not at least a little sensitive to incoming jitter.

[art]

What's 10dB better?  Are we still talking about USB to SPDIF?

The phase noise of the clock. Sorry, should have been more clear.

The owner knew what I was referring to, as did his friend. My mistake for not taking into account the rest of the world.

(Old folks....................what to do with us?)

[art]

As I mentioned before, jitter doesn't affect the performance of a well designed DAC.

So, one is to conclude that all of your products are "well designed" and everything else is crap?

Ok.

It may shock you, but a lot of folks still use megabuck DACs, from years ago. I guess they should all throw them out, right?

[mresseguie]

ART: You have a PM. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Boys, boys....I think we're all aware how this discussion could too easily turn into another scrap. Let's be nice to each other, okay?

[mresseguie]

I'm back in Oregon again. My new DAC will be delivered this afternoon. [I'm beside myself with excitement.]

I have received Tommy's USB to SPDiF converter (very nicely packaged, Tommy. Kudos!).  I also have the Ciunas converter. I have to place the order for the Schiit Eitr, and Pat's converter will  be ready soon. Good times!

I'm going to start a new thread...or two(?). Hm. One to discuss converter differences, and one to talk about my DAC and what it does for my audio system.

Michael

[audioengr]

I'm back in Oregon again. My new DAC will be delivered this afternoon. [I'm beside myself with excitement.]

I have received Tommy's USB to SPDiF converter (very nicely packaged, Tommy. Kudos!).  I also have the Ciunas converter. I have to place the order for the Schiit Eitr, and Pat's converter will  be ready soon. Good times!

I'm going to start a new thread...or two(?). Hm. One to discuss converter differences, and one to talk about my DAC and what it does for my audio system.

Michael

If you are not too far from Central Oregon, you should plan to stop in sometime at Black Butte Ranch.  You can vacation, golf, bicycle and experience some other audio products at the same time.  No pressure.  For instance, I have Wireworld Platinum USB cables as well as the SOtM USBultra which is a must-have for USB IMO.  Also iFi SPDIF iPurifiers.

[art]

OK, very briefly...................here is a typical phase noise plot for the new Legato converters:




Without going into details (since a lot of the research we consider proprietary), we have found that when you get a clock that can approach -88 dBc @ 1 Hz offset that is the point where a "digital" system begins to sound like an "analog" system, in terms of soundstage and "3-D imaging".

Actually, we do not use the phase noise as the prime metric, but is the one that is the most accessible, to folks in general. But, it gives a quick view of what to expect.

Early units were -80 to -84 dBc. Eventually we made some that were around -88 dBc. A few went to Our Man in Hong Kong that were -90 dBc. But, they were hard to come by, using the older clock parts.

Actually, it isn't easier now. One still has to buy 1000 pieces of these parts, spend a ton of money on the right test equipment, put a lot of time in effort to find the good ones, only to find  you still have a yield in single digits. (Yes, I am serious.)

A lot of our competitors that tout low-jitter clocks are around -70 dBc. (Yes, we have measured them.) Not to put down their effort, as they could have just as easily bought some bog-standard ones, that cost $1 or less, like 99% of the other companies do. You know, the ones that measure -60 dBc or so. (Yes, we have also measured a lot of them as well. In fact, that is what almost all of the ones you buy from Mouser and Digikey will measure. Trust me.)

OK, I'm done! Anyone wanting info on the Legato "Redux" (I guess that is what we can jokingly call it), or the Legato Lite (or just "Lite", as we call it), send me a PM.

"Back to the salt mine.................................."

(No jokes about whether or not I have wife that will kvetch about that.)

(Show me an engineer that has a wife....................and, well when you do manage to show me an engineer with a wife, I'll think of some pithy remark.)

Over and out! Enjoy, guys.

[WGH]

I just ordered Tommy's Cherry USB converter and his 1 ft SPDiF cable.

You may want to pick up a few attenuators too, they are cheap. I should play with mine again, it's been a long time.
Anyway, both art and audioengr agree that longer SPDIF cables with BNC connectors are better than short. Here is Pat's post from way back in 2011:

Reflections and attenuators
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=90454.0