Choosing a subwoofer

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Jjackson1138

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Choosing a subwoofer
« on: 4 Feb 2019, 05:17 am »
Any advice on choosing a subwoofer?  The two that I am considering are the SVS PB16-Ultra ($2500) ://www.svsound.com/pages/16-ultra-series or the RYTHMIC G25HP Direct Servo subwoofer ($2300) http://www.rythmikaudio.com/G25HP.html. I want as clean as bass as possible. No bloat. I will use two of them whichever I choose

Early B.

Re: Choosing a subwoofer
« Reply #1 on: 4 Feb 2019, 05:34 am »
Go with Rythmik Audio and use dual subs for 2-channel audio, too. If clean bass is what you want, that's precisely what you'll get. 

poseidonsvoice

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Re: Choosing a subwoofer
« Reply #2 on: 4 Feb 2019, 09:54 am »
Go with Rythmik Audio and use dual subs for 2-channel audio, too. If clean bass is what you want, that's precisely what you'll get.

Agreed, especially if we are talking about the G25 Rythmik model. Previous models (with 12 inch drivers and singles) I had ran into peak SPL issues, although they were clean up to that SPL level before falling apart. With the dual opposed and 15 inch drivers, that should no longer be an issue. The piston area of dual 15's is equivalent to a 21 inch. If you want to know if the SVS vs. Rythmik in this example has greater stroke volume you would have to know the individual xmax numbers of each of the drivers. Stroke volume starts becoming real important below 30-40Hz. That being said, you should have plenty of capability from either one but my choice would be the Rythmik unit in this case as you should theoretically have cleaner midbass as well. And that is important not only for music but movies as well. If your room is enormous however (small auditorium, etc...) you will get more for your dollar from the SVS.

Keep these thoughts in mind, as one size doesn't always fit all.

I would use subs in multiples (if you have the space, lack of WAF constraints, etc...) to minimize spatial variation, etc...but if not, EQ can help but may not solve all your issues.

Best,
Anand.

Jjackson1138

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Re: Choosing a subwoofer
« Reply #3 on: 4 Feb 2019, 05:43 pm »
Thanks for the input. It is what i had suspected but was looking for more confirmation. I wanted to be certain before making a $5000 investment. I love super clean super tight bass.  But still desire extension. this is not an inexpensive endeavor in most cases. Thanks again. And if anyone knows of any other considerations that fit within my budget please chime in.

artur9

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Re: Choosing a subwoofer
« Reply #4 on: 4 Feb 2019, 11:17 pm »
Any advice on choosing a subwoofer?

Based on what criteria?  SPL?  Furniture grade?  Musical prowess?  Depth Charge prowess?

But, yeah, buying more than one is the way to bless, I think.  Something like the Kinesis Swarm but with lots more power would be fun.

Also, have you perused data-bass.com?

poseidonsvoice

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Re: Choosing a subwoofer
« Reply #5 on: 5 Feb 2019, 10:37 am »
Based on what criteria?  SPL?  Furniture grade?  Musical prowess?  Depth Charge prowess?

But, yeah, buying more than one is the way to bless, I think.  Something like the Kinesis Swarm but with lots more power would be fun.

Also, have you perused data-bass.com?

That's exactly what I do in my setup. Josh at Databass is an enormous resource. So is Vance Dickason at Voice Coil as he routinely has Klippel measurements on the finest drivers of the world.

For higher budgets, consider Funk Audio. It's on a different level, particularly with driver design.

Also, it is important for the OP to realize that one needs to practice a little and get good at making in room measurements with REW software or equivalent especially with implementing more than 1 sub.

From that standpoint, the SVS unit he mentioned is super cool. It has it's own iPhone/Android amp and you can adjust EQ, phase, etc....directly from your chair. Real time changes. I have listened the SVS unit and it is a clean sounding sub. You would have to compare the Rythmik and SVS in the same room on musical material to tease out the real winner. Commercial subs (especially in this price range) have really improved especially in their motor/spider design which has a dominant factor in sound quality above 40Hz or so. Of course the room is the biggest elephant in the room and should/must be addressed.

For lower budgets and more home theater applications, Monoprice's Monolith subwoofers are really slamming the market. Even stiffer competition in the under $2K area.

Top it off with SVS' wireless transmitters and you can have some great fun.

Good luck!

Best,
Anand.

witchdoctor

Re: Choosing a subwoofer
« Reply #6 on: 5 Feb 2019, 05:04 pm »
Any advice on choosing a subwoofer?  The two that I am considering are the SVS PB16-Ultra ($2500) ://www.svsound.com/pages/16-ultra-series or the RYTHMIC G25HP Direct Servo subwoofer ($2300) http://www.rythmikaudio.com/G25HP.html. I want as clean as bass as possible. No bloat. I will use two of them whichever I choose

Yes, take your budget, divide it in two, and buy two good subs instead of one monster. Second, try and get a sub with an auto eq feature.
Third, my BEST suggestion might stretch your budget but would be to look at the SWARM subwoofer solution by AudioKinesis, check out their Circle right here.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=135.0

Tyson

Re: Choosing a subwoofer
« Reply #7 on: 5 Feb 2019, 05:17 pm »
I've owned SVS and Rythmik subs for extended periods of time.  It's really no contest, the Rythmik subs are just better.

Jjackson1138

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Re: Choosing a subwoofer
« Reply #8 on: 5 Feb 2019, 09:12 pm »
Based on what criteria?  SPL?  Furniture grade?  Musical prowess?  Depth Charge prowess?

But, yeah, buying more than one is the way to bless, I think.  Something like the Kinesis Swarm but with lots more power would be fun.

Also, have you perused data-bass.com?

SPL-:
110dB at listening position with less than 10%THD
Furniture grade:
 Of relatively low priority (but not  a box that looks like it should be in the trash)
Musical prowess:
 Articulation in music of great importance. Sound quality for music most important.

RDavidson

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Re: Choosing a subwoofer
« Reply #9 on: 5 Feb 2019, 09:41 pm »
I haven't heard a Rythmik sub, but folks here always recommend them as a top choice where speed and articulation are of greatest importance. I'm sure they're amazing.

I'm a fan of SVS. They probably can't beat Rythmik at Rythmik's game, but SVS makes a wonderful product with great features too. Certainly they're highly reviewed and no slouch. Note their sealed subs will likely give you performance that edges closer to Rythmik than their ported subs will. But boy, their ported subs definitely fill the room more effortlessly. Something also to consider is that SVS has absolutely top notch customer service. The plate amp in one of my SB2000's recently gave up the ghost after almost 5 years of consistent use. Not really an uncommon thing. In my experience, plate amps eventually die and replacement isn't a big deal. Of course SVS sent me a new plate amp under warranty. No prob. Well, removing the old plate amp was very difficult. It was sealed tight to the cabinet. I finally got the amp out, with advise from customer service on how to do so. But in doing so, I damaged part of the gloss finish at a couple of the corners where the amp fits to the cabinet. I was pretty disappointed with that. I take meticulous care of my gear and my SB2000 was pristine, prior to. So I let customer service know what had happened and they sent me a pristine (open box) replacement SB-2000 and even threw in a T-shirt. They took care of shipping everything, including return of my old sub back to them. :thumb:
« Last Edit: 6 Feb 2019, 01:11 am by RDavidson »

TomS

Re: Choosing a subwoofer
« Reply #10 on: 5 Feb 2019, 10:25 pm »
I've owned the 12" Rythmik/GR subs, both sealed and OB's, and they do work quite well. Those are gone and I now have an SVS SB16 (sealed) that I use 90% for music as a ULF sub (<35hz) with full range speakers (Focal Sopra No 2's). I couldn't be happier with it, unlimited headroom, deep extension, provides foundation for the music, with no "bloat" at all. When I want to use it for a movie or two, it delivers the full experience effortlessly. Presets from a phone app make it simple to "re-tune" for either scenario with just a couple clicks. Mine has the gloss black finish, perfectly done, and is quite beautiful to look at.

artur9

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Re: Choosing a subwoofer
« Reply #11 on: 5 Feb 2019, 11:39 pm »
SPL-:
110dB at listening position with less than 10%THD

In my old listening room I found that lowering distortion to 5% offers really nice improvements over 10%.  I eventually got distortion to around 2% (with multiple subs) and that was even better.

I also have the smallest SVS.  The headroom on that thing is impressive.

JLM

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Re: Choosing a subwoofer
« Reply #12 on: 6 Feb 2019, 01:11 pm »
Most would advice going sealed for music (ported for AV) and Rythmik over SVS.  Like others, recommend multiple smaller subs to fewer bigger ones.  I run (3) 10 inch subs in an 8ft x 13ft x 21ft dedicated music room.  Not super loud, but plenty for my old ears.

FireGuy

Re: Choosing a subwoofer
« Reply #13 on: 6 Feb 2019, 01:46 pm »
Most would advice going sealed for music (ported for AV) and Rythmik over SVS.  Like others, recommend multiple smaller subs to fewer bigger ones.  I run (3) 10 inch subs in an 8ft x 13ft x 21ft dedicated music room.  Not super loud, but plenty for my old ears.

I agree running multi subs to fill in those bass nulls is the correct path.  However sealed Vs. ported is a preference and not a law.  Moreover, I'm not the "most" that prefer Rythmik.  I've heard both of these as well as my excellent Outlaw LFM+1.  My choice is Outlaw over Rythmik.  SVS fits in the middle...  IMO.   Such is the subjectivity of audio.

TomS

Re: Choosing a subwoofer
« Reply #14 on: 6 Feb 2019, 03:18 pm »
Most would advice going sealed for music (ported for AV) and Rythmik over SVS.  Like others, recommend multiple smaller subs to fewer bigger ones.  I run (3) 10 inch subs in an 8ft x 13ft x 21ft dedicated music room.  Not super loud, but plenty for my old ears.
Except my SVS IS sealed

https://www.svsound.com/products/sb16-ultra

Philistine

Re: Choosing a subwoofer
« Reply #15 on: 6 Feb 2019, 04:38 pm »
I have 3 Subs:
A REL Storm III
SVS PB-2 Ultra
Rythmik F12G-SE

Of the 3 the Rythmik has a faster, tighter and cleaner bass,  The SVS is probably 14 years old now, so it may not be representative of current model performance?  I'm using the Rythmik in a 2 channel KEF LS50 wireless system, and the SVS in a Dolby Atmos HT system, the SVS puts out a lot of energy so both subs are in the most appropriate systems for their individual strengths.  I haven't dealt with SVS since the business changed ownership, the service used to be good.  I blew a Rythmik plate amp on an OB speaker (my fault) and Brian at Rhytmik was great to work with.

I've looked at 'upgrading' the HT sub, and contemplating a large Rhythmik or 2 smaller ones....so Rythmik get my vote of confidence FWIW.

Tyson

Re: Choosing a subwoofer
« Reply #16 on: 6 Feb 2019, 07:26 pm »
It's true, the SVS will put out more bass below 40hz, so if you're only using the sub below 40hz, then that might be a better option.  But if you're running the subs up to 80hz (or even higher), then the Rythmik is going to do better.  IME and all.

stlrman

Re: Choosing a subwoofer
« Reply #17 on: 7 Feb 2019, 03:12 am »
Have you checked out AVS

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/?nojs=1#/forums/113?page=3

Your missing a few great companies- HSU , JTR, Funk Audio , and PSA