How antiskate works? modding the stanton str8-80

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EZHusky

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How antiskate works? modding the stanton str8-80
« on: 20 Dec 2018, 08:00 pm »
So ive been trying to get into vinyl forever, and i finally got the chance to get a turntable, which was given to me for just a couple of hours of raking leaves, that turntable being the stanton str8-80.
Problem is, because this is a DJ table, the tonearm is underhung making it impossible for proper cartridge aliment. But i found that it was possible to change the tonearm setup in this table for an "s" shaped arm. Im asking how antiskate works because the str8-80 doesnt have antiskate, but the tonearm assembly im putting on it does. Would i be able to do this? Is antiskate a passive thing? Or does it have to be powered in some way, because if it needs to be powered i wouldnt be able to hook up the antiskate.



The stanton str8-80, short arm and has no antiskate



The tonearm i want to replace it with

toocool4

Re: How antiskate works? modding the stanton str8-80
« Reply #1 on: 20 Dec 2018, 11:05 pm »
Anti-skate is not powered. Basically what is happening is when you are playing a record the forces wants to pull the arm to the end of the record, the Anti-skate is just a force to balance the force so the arm does not skate in.
Anti-skate is dynamic and the amount of anti-skate is dependent on the forces generated in the grooves by the music playing.

The way I set my anti-skate is to pick an LP and use the lead out groove at the end of the record, drop the stylus in the blank space in the lead out groove and the arm should move slowly towards the centre spindle. Adjust the anti-skate so the movement towards the spindle is not fast. When you get it correct the arm should move slowly towards the spindle and never out backwards toward the beginning of the record.

EZHusky

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Re: How antiskate works? modding the stanton str8-80
« Reply #2 on: 20 Dec 2018, 11:25 pm »
alright, thank you for that information

Wayner

Re: How antiskate works? modding the stanton str8-80
« Reply #3 on: 21 Dec 2018, 12:56 am »
Anti-skate is not powered. Basically what is happening is when you are playing a record the forces wants to pull the arm to the end of the record, the Anti-skate is just a force to balance the force so the arm does not skate in.
Anti-skate is dynamic and the amount of anti-skate is dependent on the forces generated in the grooves by the music playing.

The way I set my anti-skate is to pick an LP and use the lead out groove at the end of the record, drop the stylus in the blank space in the lead out groove and the arm should move slowly towards the centre spindle. Adjust the anti-skate so the movement towards the spindle is not fast. When you get it correct the arm should move slowly towards the spindle and never out backwards toward the beginning of the record.

Wrong. Anti-skate is dependent on offset angle and tracking weight.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: How antiskate works? modding the stanton str8-80
« Reply #4 on: 21 Dec 2018, 03:33 am »
Wayner, PM sent.

Larry

toocool4

Re: How antiskate works? modding the stanton str8-80
« Reply #5 on: 21 Dec 2018, 08:04 am »
Wrong. Anti-skate is dependent on offset angle and tracking weight.

No not wrong, what you say do affect it but the modulations of the music you are playing in the grooves affect it a lot too.

Letitroll98

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Re: How antiskate works? modding the stanton str8-80
« Reply #6 on: 21 Dec 2018, 03:24 pm »
No offense toocool4, but your description of how anti skate works, or anti bias as I prefer to call it, doesn't jibe with the method you suggest to set it.  If it's groove modulation that matters most why are you using a blank portion of the lp?  The point of me being a jerk here is that yes, groove modulation does affect anti bias settings, so using a blank portion of the record always ends up with too high of a setting.  Note that Wayner will disagree with me on that, which is fine.  The anti bias required varies all across the record based on all the factors mentioned here, so setting anti bias is an approximation and becomes something of an art form.  Using the HiFi News and Record Reviews test disk you'll find nearly any setting works at lower modulations levels and if you set it according to the higher modulated tracks you end up setting it too high.  So I start with about half of the tracking force number and adjust using particular music tracks that fall on different places on the lp.  That's not much help for newbies trying to set it.  Some use tracks with drums or bass that appear in the deep middle of the soundfield and adjust to maximum effect.  I have a piano recorded nearfield that spreads from beyond one speaker to the other, when that piano is right, the anti bias is correct.  (Solid Colors, Liz Story)  The thing to remember is that the force acting on the stylus varies all across the record so there isn't any correct setting.  (I feel like I'm in The Matrix, there is no spoon)

toocool4

Re: How antiskate works? modding the stanton str8-80
« Reply #7 on: 21 Dec 2018, 04:05 pm »
Letitroll98 no offense taken.
Here I simplify the setup for the new guy as setting anti-skate is not easy and you could never get it correct all of the time.
So why use the blank section of the run out groove? I use this section because it’s a way to get an approximation that will have the correct amount of force for over 70% of the music in most grooves. Sometimes it will be too much and sometimes it will not be enough, but it’s a good percentage to have it correct most of the time. 

rotarius

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Re: How antiskate works? modding the stanton str8-80
« Reply #8 on: 21 Dec 2018, 04:08 pm »
Yes, the tonearm offset generates a skating force inwards and is dependent on tracking weight, offset angle and radius. Anybody who has taken a basic Physics or solid mechanics class can draw a force diagram to show it. 
And yes groove modulations may affect the bias compensating for this inward force but to say that skating is the result of "forces generated in the grooves by the music playing" is incorrect.

toocool4

Re: How antiskate works? modding the stanton str8-80
« Reply #9 on: 21 Dec 2018, 04:32 pm »
rotarius what I am saying is setting the anti-skate, you have to take into account the modulations in the grooves. Maybe I simplified what I was saying too much because I was talking to a new person to setting it up. Anyway my way to set it up for the OP will work as he is asking how to set it up not how centrifugal forces works.

rotarius

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Re: How antiskate works? modding the stanton str8-80
« Reply #10 on: 21 Dec 2018, 04:50 pm »
Toocool4, understood you simplifying for the new person.
 I would suggest an even simpler method to set it that works for me.  Get a mono lp and set the bias till you have equal output from both channels at various locations on the lp. As close to a central image as possible anyway.

Happy Holidays!

UncleMeat

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Re: How antiskate works? modding the stanton str8-80
« Reply #11 on: 17 Jan 2019, 07:52 am »
Check the manual for the arm.  In some cases the anti-skate setting is a ratio of the tracking force (VTF).  So you set the VTF for the stylus, then you set the anti-skate to a corresponding setting.

Letitroll98

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Re: How antiskate works? modding the stanton str8-80
« Reply #12 on: 17 Jan 2019, 04:10 pm »
Re-reading the OP he was merely asking if you had to power the anti skate device.  The answer to that question is no, it's either spring loaded or driven by magnets.  So all of us, me especially, are being audio nerds going back and forth about something that wasn't asked.   :duh:

toocool4

Re: How antiskate works? modding the stanton str8-80
« Reply #13 on: 17 Jan 2019, 04:32 pm »
Letitroll98 well i guess he / she knows a lot more now  :lol:

Letitroll98

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Re: How antiskate works? modding the stanton str8-80
« Reply #14 on: 17 Jan 2019, 09:11 pm »
Lol, yeah, the anti bias setting debate is almost as controversial as cable debates.  At least he has some options to try when he gets that arm mounted.  And I was unaware that the straight armed version of the Stanton Hanpin table doesn't have an anti bias device, so we all learned something.

timind

Re: How antiskate works? modding the stanton str8-80
« Reply #15 on: 18 Jan 2019, 12:17 am »
Re-reading the OP he was merely asking if you had to power the anti skate device.  The answer to that question is no, it's either spring loaded or driven by magnets.  So all of us, me especially, are being audio nerds going back and forth about something that wasn't asked.   :duh:

That's it. I read the entire thread waiting for someone to answer the OP's question.  :thumb:

But how much it matters is anyone's guess as the OP seems to have vanished.