Need amp recommendation for BMR Philharmonitor

slava · « **on:** 7 Apr 2018, 07:42 pm »

Hi All,

I am looking for a stereo amplifier to power a pair of BMR philharmonitors (have not arrived yet), their sensitivity is low at db 84.5 and their impedance is listed as 6 ohm. According to to Dennis their minimum impedance is 5 ohm.
The room these will be in will be 30 feet by 12 feet with 9 foot ceilings. I recently tested an emotiva a-300 amp and find it a bit bright at higher volumes. I have been on the look out for a used Parasound A23 and was wondering if there is anything else I should look for. Also, would the A23 provide sufficient power and dynamics?

I would definitely like to keep the budget under $1000, preferably under $600 if possible.

mresseguie · « **Reply #1 on:** 25 Apr 2018, 05:00 pm »

Hello, slava.

Have you found an amplifier for your new speakers?

I copied the specs and pasted them below, so everyone who views this thread knows.

Regards,

Michael

Cabinet   Cherry, piano black, or custom veneers by Jim Salk
Tweeter   RAAL 64-10 OEM
Midrange   Tectonic Balanced Mode Radiator 2.5"
Woofer   Scan Speak 8545-01 7"
Frequency Response   32 Hz - 20kHz (+ / - 2db) Anechoic
Sensitivity   84.5 dB (dB/2.83v/1M)
Box Alignment   Bass Reflex
Dimensions   20" H x (8" Front, 4.5" Back) W x 14" D
Weight   38 lbs each
Impedance   6 Ohms

slava · « **Reply #2 on:** 26 Apr 2018, 03:06 am »

Hi Michael,

Thank you, I should have thought to post the specs. I initially purchased a Emotiva A300 which I found harsh, grainy and analytical. I was going to try to break it in to see if it improved, but it's fan began to constantly turn on and make a loud whining noise. Contacted Emotiva and they told me the fan is most likely defective and they cannot replace it as they are out of stock, recommended I return the unit to Amazon which I did.

I purchased a used Parasound A23 (mint condition), but I am not fully satisfied with it. I like how it sounds over all but I am finding the low end lacking. At higher volumes the music becomes much less dynamic and starts sounding "slow". As much as I disliked the sound of the Emotiva amp, I did not have that particular problem with it. I really like how class A/AB amps sound, but I am wondering if I need more power for these speakers or its the A23 that is the problem.

I was considering upgrading to a used A21, but I realized it is too big at 20" deep. My issue is that most higher wattage A/AB amps are either too expensive or too bulky. BMR has smooth and warm sound signature, was wondering if a good class D amp might pair with it. I would appreciate any recommendations as I am still quite new to this, willing to stretch my budget a bit.

weatherman1 · « **Reply #3 on:** 26 Apr 2018, 05:12 am »

I own the BMR Phil's and drive them with a KT88 Integrated amp. They have impressive staging, scintillating high's and solid bass. This amp probably produces 40 watts and while my library is much smaller than your 30x12 and I have no idea what loud means to you, I can only get to a 10 o'clock on the volume before it gets uncomfortable. The amps you mention, technically, should have no problem driving the BMR's to loudness. I suspect the harshness, slowness of bass response is more a function of your room. You might want to try some traps, heavy rugs, etc.cetra, before buying another expensive amp only to find you still have the same or similar problem. Keep trying....the problem solving part of this addiction can be very satisfying. At 75 I still enjoy the sound of success.

mresseguie · « **Reply #4 on:** 26 Apr 2018, 05:52 am »

Slava,

My old living room/dining room was 29x13x9 and carpeted. I have had different speakers in that room ranging from ~~84db~~ 85dB to 96dB. The ~~84dB~~ 85dB speakers sounded dull and lifeless. I had powered them with a 230w A/B hybrid amp. Those same speakers sounded wonderful in a near-field setup.

It’s quite possible your speakers and your room don’t get along so well. Weatherman’s suggestion to look into room treatments is good advice. Pulling the speakers further into the room may help as well if that is allowed.

Have you considered adding a good quality subwoofer?

Michael

JLM · « **Reply #5 on:** 26 Apr 2018, 10:38 am »

Slava, also wondering what you mean by "low end lacking" and "higher volumes". Can you quantify the lows and higher volumes? Have you had these issues with other gear? Surprised that a Parasound A23 didn't sound better (how can an amp sound "slow"?). Lacking low end and loss of dynamics at higher volumes would seem to be more speaker issues. Personally I don't like 84 dB/w/m and 6 ohms (speakers like that tend to be non-dynamic and require powerful amps as Michael mentioned). The A23 should provide 22 dB of gain, allowing for roughly 106 dB in-room. What wattage are your speakers rated to handle?

I had an Emotiva DC-1 (DAC/preamp/headphone amp) that had that same 'house' sound as your Emotiva amp. $600 is not a realistic budget for a quality amp unless you stay with used pieces.

Your room is shaped a bit like a tunnel (not good, you'd probably need two subwoofers (one at each end of the room, the rear one out of phase perhaps) to get close to even bass response, read Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction"). What is your speaker/listening position setup like?

slava · « **Reply #6 on:** 26 Apr 2018, 08:38 pm »

I will try to elaborate some of my confusing statements and give a better idea of the setup. I am sitting basically near-field at 9 feet from the speakers and sub, in the middle of a 29 foot room with a rug in between. Please refer to the crude diagram below.
__________________
Couch
----rug----
------------
_____R______L_____
(Rythmik L12, next to L speaker)

My normal listening level according to the Denon 3400H AVR is between -42db and -35db (from reference 105?), I am quite happy with the A23 at that volume. The BMR definitely goes loud enough with the A23 in my room that is not the issue. It is when I decide to turn up the volume louder to say between -34db and -20db that I begin to notice a loss in dynamics and impact/tightness in the bass. I really enjoy the low end of the BMR and love listening to them crossed over at 40hz or full range, but the issue is more pronounced at a 40hz than at 80hz crossover. I think the speakers sounded a bit more dynamic and had a stronger low end with the Emotiva A-300 compared to the A23, but the overall I still like the A23 a lot better.

I am very happy with the BMR and will definitely not be replacing them, I am just trying to get the most I can afford out of them. Room treatments are unlikely due to WAF. My budget for an amp upgrade would be between 800-1500 (max), I open to used or new. Thank you all for the feedback and help!

JerryM · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 Apr 2018, 08:53 pm »

I'd call Frank Van Alstine over at AVA and talk to him about a SET 150 amp. He's a great guy, and usually is the one to answer the phone.

Have fun,

Jerry

slava · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 Apr 2018, 09:12 pm »

Hi Jerry,

I did call Frank a few weeks ago and he strongly advised me to purchase an amp with 150 watts or more as he is familiar with the BMR. He also told me he cannot sell me an amp at the moment because his new line of amps is about to come out and he did not want to sell me the older models. I do not see the SET 150 amp on this website, I am assuming it is one of the new models he was referring to. The AVA amps are at the top end of my budget and are difficult to find used. I was hoping to upgrade by buying a used amplifier first if possible, but I am not sure exactly which amps to look for. Also, I read about NORD and APPOLON selling 12000AS2 amps for about $1200 and wondering how good they are. (their definitely powerful)

Thanks,

Slava

avahifi · « **Reply #9 on:** 26 Apr 2018, 11:33 pm »

The SET 400 is available now, ($1999). A lower power model, the SET 300, ($1499), will be available in two - three weeks.

Our web site still not up to date.

Frank

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #10 on:** 27 Apr 2018, 01:13 am »

For your budget under $1K consider AVA HiFi SET 150 amp, Schiit Vidar. For a bit more consider a Vincent Audio SP-331. Or go the used route.

JLM · « **Reply #11 on:** 27 Apr 2018, 10:53 am »

The volume levels you're reading from the Denon are meaningless. You need to pick up a Radio Shack spl meter or a spl app for your smart phone to really know how loud you're listening.

Most audiophiles I've hung with do their serious listening at around 85 dB, which should only take 1 watt of power on average, but "on average" is the rub. Music is all about peaks. For classical music peaks can range up to 30 dB, which translates into 1,000 times the wattage. Realistic (live performance) listening levels go up to something like 105 dB for jazz/classical and 110 dB for rock. For your speakers/room I'd estimate that to require about 1,000 watts per channel (which is why I dislike low efficiency speakers like yours). And over driving the power amp is the #1 way to fry speakers.

rollo · « **Reply #12 on:** 27 Apr 2018, 03:03 pm »

Quote from: slava on 7 Apr 2018, 07:42 pm

Hi All,

I am looking for a stereo amplifier to power a pair of BMR philharmonitors (have not arrived yet), their sensitivity is low at db 84.5 and their impedance is listed as 6 ohm. According to to Dennis their minimum impedance is 5 ohm.
The room these will be in will be 30 feet by 12 feet with 9 foot ceilings. I recently tested an emotiva a-300 amp and find it a bit bright at higher volumes. I have been on the look out for a used Parasound A23 and was wondering if there is anything else I should look for. Also, would the A23 provide sufficient power and dynamics?

I would definitely like to keep the budget under $1000, preferably under $600 if possible.

Unless you go chip amp or class "D" your budget is limited. Used is your best bet. Stick to 150W plus amp or more. I just cannot think of anything to recco at under 1K.

charles

dB Cooper · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 Apr 2018, 03:37 pm »

Quote from: slava on 26 Apr 2018, 09:12 pm

Hi Jerry,

I did call Frank a few weeks ago and he strongly advised me to purchase an amp with 150 watts or more as he is familiar with the BMR. He also told me he cannot sell me an amp at the moment because his new line of amps is about to come out and he did not want to sell me the older models.

Thanks,

Slava

Declined to sell you an amp??? Well, I guess if there's nothing ready-to-ship... As rollo suggests, you can use somebody else's 'upgraditis' to your advantage. Sometimes FVA has 'deals' on previous models, or one of his used/trade-in specials (unless you just gotta have the 'latest n' greatest', which will be hard given your stated budget) might fit the bill.

sunnydaze · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 Apr 2018, 03:54 pm »

Red Dragon S500. I have one in rotation with my (mainly) tube amps. Dynamic, smooth and musical presentation on every speaker I've tried: Sunny, Vaughn, JM Reynaud, Omega.

250wpc into 8 ohms, 500wpc into 4 ohms. With patience you can find a used one in the $800 - $900 range.

https://www.reddragonaudio.com/products/s500?variant=969867425

slava · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 Apr 2018, 05:06 pm »

Thank you for all the recommendations, I will look into the Red Dragon S500, Vincent Audio SP-331, and definitely consider the SET 300 if I commit to buying new.

I don't currently have an SPL meter, but I did use an iPhone app to measure the volume.

My normal listening volume was measured by the phone app between 60 dB and 70 dB depending on setting, louder volumes I occasionally to are between 75db and 80 dB. I am not sure about the dynamic range of the music I listen to, would probably need to buy a real spl meter and spend some time with it.

I would say I rarely listen to louder than 80 dB, and louder than 85 dB I would find uncomfortable for any extended period of time. According to the meter when I turn the volume past 80 db the instant, avg, and max volume are basically all reading the same numbers.

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #16 on:** 27 Apr 2018, 05:36 pm »

Slava, I have a friend that has a Parsound A21 in black that he is wanting to sell. The only reason that he is selling it is because he upgraded to a pair of Pass Labs monoblocks. Let me know if you are interested and I can get you in contact with him. I bet he will let it go somewhere between $1200 and $1500.

Larry

slava · « **Reply #17 on:** 27 Apr 2018, 07:02 pm »

Larry, I would love to purchase the A21 from your friend but I am afraid it is too big to fit inside or even on top of my media center. The problem is that it is 20 inches deep, even with the back of the cabinet open it still might not fit. I have to really confirm that I can fit it, it will definitely hang out the back no matter what which is concerning.

JLM · « **Reply #18 on:** 27 Apr 2018, 07:39 pm »

Seems like you're a 'mild' listener by those readings. Note that while classical can have 30 dB peaks most other genres only have 10-15 dB peaks. (requiring 10 - 33 times the wattage). This means you should be able to live with 100 watts per channel or less (but having more is insurance against speaker damage from a clipped signal). Keep in mind that watts versus dB is a logarithmic relationship, meaning that it takes 10 times the wattage to increase 10 dB, 100 times the wattage to increase 20 dB, 1000 times the wattage to increase 30 dB, etc. Again, a good reason to avoid lower efficiency speakers.

To accommodate a deeper amp on a temporary basis you could just allow it to overhang or if the feet don't fit just add a piece of plywood that's deep enough to fit the feet.

gab · « **Reply #19 on:** 27 Apr 2018, 08:18 pm »

Mivera Audio standard 2 channel amp (Icepower 1200AS2 module inside)

https://www.miveraaudio.com/product-page/purepower-standard-icepower-1200as2-2-channel-amp

I own the Takachi DIY version of this amp (since Jan) and it is outstanding and would easily drive your BMR Philharmonitors. Many other AC members are now starting to receive their Standard and Se amps as I type......

gab