[MonkeyK]

Replacing the outlet is not necessary; There are two "lugs" on the power inlet assembly which are easy to solder the leads of good power cord to. When you pull out the white AC pig tail, you will see them.

Cool, it sounds like replacing the power cord would be a good first mod then (after the device arrives, of course).  At ~$50 are power cords all about the same, or are there some that stand out?

[TheChairGuy]

MonkeyK,

Get the most capacity (in amps) that you can afford.  There are various schools of thoughts on pros and cons of conditioners.  Some say none at all -  right into the wall, otherwise there is a restriction of dynamics.

For me, on every component hooked into it, the BPT added a degree of precision and background silence, without capping the dynamics, one iota.  It was all benefit, no downsides on every piece I have played with in or out of the BPT.  My BPT-2 is, I think, 17 amps or so (overkill for my system now, for sure).  $1500 was the cost..something that I have not regretted at all.

I think even the 'amps go in the wall only' crowd would agree that bigger is better, however, in conditioning.  Higher capacity, will at least hypothetically, cause less dynamic restriction.  Again, for me, I hear only great benefits (as have others with various BPT's on AudioCircle) and no downsides to using a conditioner.

As for the power cord, if you don't solder, you can simply cut the 18 guage cord on the JVC 1.5" from the back of the unit, pull off the IEC end of a power cord of choice and wrap the positive to positive, negative to negative wires together tightly with electrical tape (tape the ground wire in the power cord to the outside jacket of teh power cord and wrap, for good measure, with electrical tape).  Don't use wire nuts...serious degradation of the sound.  If you clip the JVC out an inch-and-a-half from the receiver, there is only about 3-4" total of 18ga to the clips inside.  You are deriving much of the benefit (if there is any, that of course is debatable) of a power cord without soldering. It all looks a bit ugly, but if you don't look at the back of your receiver much, you won't care.

Again, I found no discernable difference in the sound of the JVC with or without a power cord to it...once I had good mains conditioning from the BPT going on.

The Eagle's are dang decent for the $10...but you may want to splurge for $30+ and get some cryo'ed outlets from various sources (they work, I keep getting told). It's the one place an audiophile on a budget can splurge like the big guys. Everything runs thru that outlet, so get the best you are willing to afford (not a big deal as good ones range from $10 to about $150 max)

Hope that helps, I'm no engineer, just a fellow audiophile that has some done lay research.  

Good luck and enjoy.  

[TheChairGuy]

Cool, it sounds like replacing the power cord would be a good first mod then (after the device arrives, of course).  At ~$50 are power cords all about the same, or are there some that stand out?

MonkeyK,

Actually, a Highwire Powerwrap from Music Direct for $25 did the same thing as my $125 LAT powercord did (very little to nothing, thru the BPT), then get a good outlet for $25 or so.  I think your $50 is better spent this way.

Then, if you still have rent money, buy or make the best conditioner you can  

In my most humble of opinion....

[JeffB]

I was reading the specs for the JVC RX-F10 and it states

100 watts per channel, 6 ohms, from 40Hz to 20kHz, with 0.8% THD


Does the output go below 40Hz?

[Horizons]

I was reading the specs for the JVC RX-F10 and it states
100 watts per channel, 6 ohms, from 40Hz to 20kHz, with 0.8% THD
Does the output go below 40Hz?

Oh, my Maggie's sure sound like they are pumping out sub-40 Hz notes. I suspect that below 40 Hz, the distortion in this amp increases dramatically. I will be hooking up my powered sub when I get the time and I'll report back my findings.

I would not sweat the spec particulars if you care about sound. A highly modified Dynaco 70 tube amp was one of the best things I ever heard and it measured like a pile of junk.

[cjr888]

....and $239 with free shipping from Amazon now.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000222YSM/ref%3Dnosim/bensbargaicenter/102-2146773-4171316

[guest1632]

I was reading the specs for the JVC RX-F10 and it states
100 watts per channel, 6 ohms, from 40Hz to 20kHz, with 0.8% THD
Does the output go below 40Hz?

Oh, my Maggie's sure sound like they are pumping out sub-40 Hz notes. I suspect that below 40 Hz, the distortion in this amp increases dramatically. I will be hooking up my powered sub when I get the time and I'll report back my findings.

I would not sweat the spec particulars if you care about sound. A highly modified Dynaco 70 tube amp was one of the best things I ever heard and it measured like a pile of junk.

It would not surprise me that if someone were to look inside that the output below 40HZ is probably limited by some cap or other, a la  a sub sonic filter if you will. I'll betcha that you get rid of the coupling caps that are probably doing the limiting, and the sound will improve a lot.

Ray

[guest1632]

I was reading the specs for the JVC RX-F10 and it states
100 watts per channel, 6 ohms, from 40Hz to 20kHz, with 0.8% THD
Does the output go below 40Hz?

Oh, my Maggie's sure sound like they are pumping out sub-40 Hz notes. I suspect that below 40 Hz, the distortion in this amp increases dramatically. I will be hooking up my powered sub when I get the time and I'll report back my findings.

I would not sweat the spec particulars if you care about sound. A highly modified Dynaco 70 tube amp was one of the best things I ever heard and it measured like a pile of junk.

Hey Horizon, who sells Maggies there in Orange County? Used to live in Santa Ana, Anaheim. Did your mods fix that maggie warm midrange? There was always something about them that I could not put my finger on that bugged me. You might have fixed them. The little Maggies that are about $500 or so, they were real open sounding except for that broad seemingly exaggerated midrange. Thanks. and I didn't mean to hijack this thread.

Ray

[MonkeyK]

Then, if you still have rent money, buy or make the best conditioner you can  

In my most humble of opinion....

ChairGuy,
So far nearly all opinions on this board are more informed than my own.  All advice received here is a great starting point for me.  


If something like this on ebay is an acceptable power conditioner, I should have no problem affording one.

[Horizons]

Hey Horizon, who sells Maggies there in Orange County? Used to live in Santa Ana, Anaheim. Did your mods fix that maggie warm midrange? There was always something about them that I could not put my finger on that bugged me. You might have fixed them. The little Maggies that are about $500 or so, they were real open sounding except for that broad seemingly exaggerated midrange. Thanks. and I didn't mean to hijack this thread.

Ray

I think Digital Ear in Tustin is the only Maggie dealer in OC. I bought mine used via Audiogon.

Regarding the warm midrange, that is what I actually like about the Maggies. I think it has something to do with the large wave launch area of the bass/mid panels as well as broad crossover slopes in that area.  You can partially fix this in the MMG by changing the low pass xover from 6 db to 12 db. You just have to change the xover to the older MMG version. I detailed that in the Lab thread.

[guest1632]

I think Digital Ear in Tustin is the only Maggie dealer in OC. I bought mine used via Audiogon.

Regarding the warm midrange, that is what I actually like about the Maggies. I think it has something to do with the large wave launch area of the bass/mid panels as well as broad crossover slopes in that area.  You can partially fix this in the MMG by changing the low pass xover from 6 db to 12 db. You just have to change the xover to the older MMG version. I detailed that in the Lab thread.

Hi Horizon,  When I heard the Maggies, this was in the mid '70's early '80's. Don't know how the newer ones sound. You might have very well fixed the problem by dampining the panels. Don't really have aany good audio stores here in Tucson.

Ray

[JeffB]

I was just looking for a Magnepan dealer in Orange County myself.
I think digitalear is the only one.

http://www.digitalear.com/

They are having a grand re-opening Jan. 18.

There is also Shelly's stereo in Woodland Hills, but that is a bit of a drive.

[Red Dragon Audio]

Hey Horizons and TheChairGuy,

I heard back from the custom tranny company and they're finally getting the parts in to do the prototype autoformer (the "ryanformer" as some are calling it though I won't take credit for it but the names catchy isn't it ).  I will buy the first prototype so we can try it out first in our systems w/o having to all take the plunge.  Then if you like what you hear in your system, I will get a batch order together so we can work a discount with the Transformer company (by the way, the company is Victoria Magnetics.  I tried some other custom companies but none of them wanted to deal with such a small order or they were foreign.  Foreign places were out because the shipping costs and the weak dollar make it more expensive for us stateside).

Bi-amping Ideas
I used to own MMG's and then later I picked up 1.6's.  I opted to go with a true biamped setup with my 1.6's and found it to be the very best way to go with them.  Plus it was easy to implement and since the crossovers in the Maggies are so simple (they don't have any notch filters, they aren't correcting phase or anything like that).  

So I built some simple passive line level crossovers(PLLC) that duplicated the slopes of the stock speaker level crossovers, inserted them between my old monarchy audio model 33 preamp and the four SM70pros.  Easy enough.  HELLLOOOOO BASSSS!  That was the first thing I noticed right off; bass had more impact and delineation.  Bass notes were just firmer and more defined as well as feeling like they had more punch to them.  Nothing wrong with that in my book for maggies.

On top of that, imagine more transparency and direct feel of the music.  All the midrange and highs were simply stunning.  I felt like I had upgraded to the 3.6's but kept the coherency/durability of the 1.6's.  Those huge caps and inductors are just not nearly as transparent as having the drivers connected directly to the amp's output section.

I don't know if you could on the JVC F10, but are there seperate inputs for each amp channel?  the crossovers of Maggies are so simple that only a few parts are needed to build a PLLC.  Plus since they are small devices, you can splurge and get the very best parts money can buy and still come in under $40-$50 EASY(I spent less than $25 on parts for mine plus ~$25 for the custom wood cases I made).

Just a thought for you guys.

[TheChairGuy]

Bring on the Ryanformers....I'm #2 still, ain't I?

It (my MMG's) already play pretty well with the F10 now after a few simple tweeks to the speakers...but you never can have enough cheap and sinful pleasure if this is an easy upgrade path  

[Horizons]

Hey Horizons and TheChairGuy,

I heard back from the custom tranny company and they're finally getting the parts in to do the prototype autoformer (the "ryanformer" as some are calling it though I won't take credit for it but the names catchy isn't it ).  I will buy the first prototype so we can try it out first in our systems w/o having to all take the plunge.  Then if you like what you hear in your system, I will get a batch order together so we can work a discount with the Transformer company (b ...

OK Starch, you just got me revved up to start a new project. YES, you could easily use a low level in-line xover and feed the separate inputs to the JVC and thus truly biamp these babies. Could you provide some details on your low level xover? Schematic, parts, etc.? I can only imagine how good the JVC would sound while biamping my 1.6ers.

And yes, I would still like to try the Ryanformers!

[ryno]

I just bought a JVC. I chose the ES1sl over the F10 for my bedroom system. I didn't want to be able to hook it up to the maggies in my main system. I can't take the chance that a $250 JVC can better an IRD purist/bryston combo. I plan to use it with diy cable's WR125S extended range drivers. Later biamp with rears powering tweets and center powering a sub. Crazy?
excuse the thread jumping, Ryan

[mcgsxr]

Ryan, nothing too crazy about what you suggest - I had the ES with the WR125S's for a while, but I ended up preferring the Bolder modded Teac to the JVC with these run full range.

As for your plans to biamp, that sounds perfect, but I would caution against trying to power a sub with any channel of one of these receivers, I doubt they can push enough juice to fulfill that duty.

Just my $0.02,

[TheChairGuy]

I have to say that I was not terribly enthused with my MMG's when I first got them. They 'popped' my JVC ES1sl and the music they played was mediocre (even with $500 price factored in) at best with the AudioSource Amp3 and Dynaco PAS-4 handling amplification duties.

I sprung a whopping $250 for the F10 and burned them in on my Vandy's.  At 300 hours, I concluded they weren't as nice to listen to as the ES1sl's.  

I set the MMGs back up - at least the F10 could drive them and it now sounded better than the AudioSource/Dynaco did.  I was not enjoying the music tho, and assumed it was the F10.

Well, a few simple, rudimentary tweeks later on the MMG and I have to say the music is now absolutely wonderful.  Before the tweeks, the resolution of the MMG's were so sub-par, I could think of load of speakers that did better for the price.  After $75 in simple tweeks (Mapleshade silver grease on fuse, swap out the steel resister for 10ga. copper stranded, 5 lb sand packs on top, 6" stands, and bungee cord lashing the panels to the stand wings) I now have to say 'wow'   .  I have never had the pleasure of such remarkably enjoyable music in my home.  The culprit was the cost-cutting measures of making a $500 speaker, not the JVC.

I have never truly enjoyed large scale classical - it never moved me before.  I now hear and understand the emotion behind so many classical pieces.  I enjoy classical, the most resolving of music, so much more now. My fave jazz pieces are so intimate now it's invigorating to listen to them.

I'm not sure I am a planar-head for life, but I am now so completely smitten with music in my home with the pairing of the JVC F10 and a slightly upgraded MMG.  I now understand why Horizons, and -Richard- before, found such success with the better-from-the-factory 1.6 and JVC F10.  It is truly a stunning pairing for the money, and indeed, price not considered.

I am far happier, and for far less than I thought I would have had to spend, in my ever-evolving journey for high quality, likeable sound in my home. Magnepan's and JVC F10's make superb music together  

Somebody else try them and see.  Truly, I am so impressed now.

[ryno]

I agree on the price cutting on magnepan speakers. To really make them sing, you need to bypass all the junk in back, not just add grease and change the jumper. Upgrade the xovers with high quality parts and add real binding posts. Check out magnepan user group site for many many more tweaks tips and setup info.
http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/

[KT]

Hi Chair Guy,

Thanks so much for sharing your experiences. Having followed the discussion for several months, now, I finally decided to spring for one of the JVC's, which I bought just 2 days ago.

I must defer to your experience, as no one else seems to have as much experience as you in comparing the 2 JVC amps, the ES1sl and the F10.

I ended up getting the F10, but now I see that you preferred the ES1sl in term of the midrange, and now I'm wondering if I bought the wrong amp.

My speaker load is pretty easy, so control is not a real issue for me. In this case, would you say the ES1sl or the F10 is the way to go? I really do love that beguiling midrange that tubes have, and if the older JVC gets closer to that I think I would prefer it.

I see now, however, that perhaps some of the initial impression you had of the 2 amps was based on the performance of the Maggies, which is now much improved.

So I'm a little bit confused as to which one might work best for me. I would appreciate any comment and opinions you have about which is the better amp in the midrange, all things considered. My bedroom speaker is the discontinued Optimus LX-4 pro which, I believe, is either 6 or 8 nominal ohms and uses just one cap and coil in the crossover. Otherwise, I'm using Lowthers and Altec 755's, so no problems with the current output.

Please let me know as soon as you can. If the older amp is significantly better than the newer one in this regard, I can still return the F10 and go for the ES1sl.

Glad you're enjoying these amps so much. They really are an amazing bargain!

Thanks,
KT