Input for GIK Cloud and Atmos/Auro 3D Setup

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JonnyFive

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Input for GIK Cloud and Atmos/Auro 3D Setup
« on: 22 Mar 2018, 02:28 pm »
Looking to crowdsource some ideas to move to Dolby Atmos/Auro 3D setup from my 9.1 system (5.1 + FW + SB).  The main challenge is my GIK cloud which is six 244s using the GIK mounting brackets.  As such, it is 12' wide and 4' deep and hangs about 10" down on the ceiling.  The cloud occupies where the top front Dolby Atmos speakers should go.

In picture below, MLP is shown in yellow, speakers in red, and GIK traps shown in black.  The MLP is about 8.5-9' from the center channel speaker.  The GIK cloud roughly splits the distance from MLP to center channel speaker. 

I don't want to mount speakers into the ceiling, so I was hoping to do 6 bookshelves mounted high up the wall above the mains, surrounds, and rear surrounds.  This would sort of be a hybrid Auro 3D/Atmos setup where the front heights and rear surround heights would be active for Atmos, and the front heights and surround heights would be active for Auro 3D.

Questions.

1) I could mount the front heights on a 12" bracket bringing them below the cloud, angled down to MLP.  The only drawbacks here are: I would lose this 12" of height effect and also if any sound traveled between the cloud and ceiling and came out towards the listening position, this might sound odd (although I don't know if this would happen?).

2) Are there any other mounting options people have done for the cloud which can get it mounted to the ceiling, rather than hanging down on the GIK brackets?  This would allow me to take the front heights higher up and to remove the air gap concern in 1).

3) If I did say to heck with the front heights, which single pair of Atmos/Auro 3D height speakers has the most effect?  I ask this because the processor I'm looking at, the Marantz AV8805, does *not* allow rear surround heights and rear heights.  All combinations of 4 or greater height speakers *require* at least one pair to be front heights.

Thanks for the input!



JWL.GIK

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Re: Input for GIK Cloud and Atmos/Auro 3D Setup
« Reply #1 on: 22 Mar 2018, 02:37 pm »
Great questions.... I'd say there are a lot of options. One might be to spread the panels out a few inches, to create enough space to mount the atmos speakers between/below the panels.

Or you can move to a custom mount for the panels, they are designed to be as versatile as possible for different mounting schemes.

Also this article might help you, in terms of making sure you have an appropriate surround format for your room.

JonnyFive

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Re: Input for GIK Cloud and Atmos/Auro 3D Setup
« Reply #2 on: 22 Mar 2018, 02:41 pm »
Great questions.... I'd say there are a lot of options. One might be to spread the panels out a few inches, to create enough space to mount the atmos speakers between/below the panels.

Or you can move to a custom mount for the panels, they are designed to be as versatile as possible for different mounting schemes.

Thanks JWL.  I hadn't thought about separating the panels, but it wouldn't take much to fit a mount in there.  Do you have any links for custom mounts people have done?  I'm drawing a blank in terms of getting them up there flush in a post-construction setting.

...wait, maybe a french cleat system, with an additional L bracket mounted towards the front so they don't vibrate out of the cleat.  I think that would do it.

benguin

Re: Input for GIK Cloud and Atmos/Auro 3D Setup
« Reply #3 on: 22 Mar 2018, 04:33 pm »
When I was looking to preserve ceiling space, we tried out several concepts.  I'm not sure if I'd do it exactly the same on a repeat, but sonically and heightwise, it worked out well.  This is 3- 244 panels physically connected and then fastened to the ceiling with a small version of the GIK brackets.

There is a bit of an air gap for better performance, but it's only about 3/4".



Shameless plug for the current GIK Unplugged photo contest - vote # 15!  :D
http://www.gikacoustics.com/photo-contest-2018/


JonnyFive

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Re: Input for GIK Cloud and Atmos/Auro 3D Setup
« Reply #4 on: 22 Mar 2018, 06:10 pm »
Benguin, looks great.  Nice Soundscape 8s!  The 8s were my first set of nice speakers, then Exoticas, and now Jim is working on a 3way active design using the bass section of the SS8s, AudioTech midrange, and a Be tweeter.

Can you tell me more about where you found those brackets?  Did you manually saw down the GIK brackets?  Something like that would work well I think. 

witchdoctor

Re: Input for GIK Cloud and Atmos/Auro 3D Setup
« Reply #5 on: 22 Mar 2018, 11:05 pm »
Go with an auro3d setup, no need for ceiling speakers and works great with atmos too.

benguin

Re: Input for GIK Cloud and Atmos/Auro 3D Setup
« Reply #6 on: 23 Mar 2018, 05:03 pm »
Johnny- thanks!  I love the SS8s for this room.  We've got an all Salk 7.2 system going in this basement.  Especially nice after adding the 2nd sub and the GIK treatments.  The REW software was incredibly valuable at determining placements.

On the brackets, on a visit to GIK, Glen clued me in to those, but I think they were a 1 off prototype.  I'm attaching some pictures, one shows a close up of one installed, and one is a paper version I cut out to show relative size (7cm wide x about 6cm high x 2.2 cm wide) and the mounting slot.  If I had flipped the bracket to have the mounting angle facing out, it would have been much easier to mount, but less hidden. They shouldn't be too hard to fabricate if you've got some nice metal to work with.





As an alternative, I considered mounting with some pairs of C channels (or U channels), one mounted to the ceiling and one mounted to the panel, and having them work as an interlocking slide.  You could do that with shorter lengths as well.  It would be similar to a French cleat, but possibly more secure.

I'm considering Atmos additions in the future as well, so will be following this thread with interest.

Thanks!
  Ben
(reminder to thread readers to vote in the GIK Unplugged photo contest!  #15  :) )

JonnyFive

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Re: Input for GIK Cloud and Atmos/Auro 3D Setup
« Reply #7 on: 23 Mar 2018, 05:23 pm »
Thanks Ben!  I was thinking about a french cleat type system as well, with an L bracket to keep them from falling out.  For the final mounting, do those slide into place like the current GIK brackets do?  Or did you use an angled screwdriver to screw them into place in the ceiling?

benguin

Re: Input for GIK Cloud and Atmos/Auro 3D Setup
« Reply #8 on: 23 Mar 2018, 07:23 pm »
We put our panel up as a monolithic piece, which created some challenges on installation.  If I was doing this on a regular basis, having a drywall jack would have really made life easier.

We mounted 8 of those brackets to the panels (critical to have all slots facing the same way), then lifted the assembly up (supported by makeshift scaffold), then marked the slots on the ceiling with the help of my wife's much more agile arms.  Next up, move the assembly and review the screw locations- luckily, half of them were on a joist.  For the other half we put in heavy duty inserts.  Ceiling is 5/8" rock, so plenty sturdy.

Then all that was left was to put the screws in without the panel with only a slight bit of clearance, then slide the panel with clips onto the screws.  Getting all 8 brackets lined up was an exercise in patience, but eventually all went together.  Then, used a 90 degree screwdriver to tighten up the 6 clips we could access.   I did add an extra L bracket in the notched out section for extra center support just to be safe.   

End result- pain to install that way, but it's been very stable- and the big plus, it 'should' be relatively easy to pull down if needed.

For anyone else reading the thread- the addition of the panels on the ceiling really helped with improvement for both ringing and decay.  It was not a subtle difference, and was well worth the effort. Additionally, they are much less intrusive visually than I would have expected.  Kudos to Bryan and Glenn for their suggestions.

  - Ben

JonnyFive

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Re: Input for GIK Cloud and Atmos/Auro 3D Setup
« Reply #9 on: 23 Mar 2018, 07:40 pm »
I can't imagine the patience it took to get them up that way.  I just ordered some interlocking U channel mounts that should do the trick quite nicely.  I'll slide them in left to right, then just make sure they are locked in place.  Thanks for the help!

PS, cloud was a huge improvement here too.  Ceiling bouncing is bad in that tweeter/mid are not time aligned in the vertical plane.  Also, helped alleviate a height bass mode.

benguin

Re: Input for GIK Cloud and Atmos/Auro 3D Setup
« Reply #10 on: 23 Mar 2018, 09:45 pm »
I think that's a wise decision.  Post back on how it went!
  -Ben