[Ulas]

I did these mods to my MG-3s about 15 years ago and the speakers have been in storage for the past five years. I temporarily set them up to take pictures to share. Additional pictures are at http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;user=1053

The mods are fairly simple and are probably applicable to any Magnepan. They are:
1. Replace the sock with sheer nylon.
2. Eliminate the external crossover box, upgrade internal wiring, and upgrade capacitors with TRTs in the base of the panels. The added oak panel is routed out to accommodate the additional (and very large) TRT caps.
3. Reinforce base to panel junction.
4. Tip Toes.
5. Increase mass of base with one 50-lbs lead brick in front and four 25-lbs lead bricks in back. The bricks are covered with self-adhesive vinyl shelf lining.
6. Add mass to top of panel with one 50-lbs lead brick. (For the picture, the lead brick is just sitting on top of the speaker. This is not safe. When the speakers were in use, the lead brick was securely attached to the panel with angle iron brackets.)

The result was increased clarity, resolution, and focus. Although I have rebuilt my audio system around horns, I really liked these Maggies…that’s why I kept them. I hope to find a use for them again, some day.

[steve k]

Thanks for the tips, Ulas. I've just become the second owner of a pair of MGIIIA's a few months ago and I'm looking at different options to upgrade including: rebuilding internal crossovers, Mye stands and even turning the mid/bass panel around. Some of the wires are delaminating so it's only a matter of time that I'll have to reglue them so that will be the perfect upgrade opportunity.

Did you replace the mid/hi crossover or just the bass crossover? Your work is quite handsome and builds on the look of the IIIA's. Others have removed the side rails completely when using steel stands which creates a totally different look, more modern, thinner panels. If you don't mind, would you be willing to post this info and your pics over at the Planar Asylum on www.audioasylum.com? There are a bunch of avid maggie modders over there who would be thrilled to see your ideas.
steve k

[TheChairGuy]

Some great ideas I hadn't heard of yet Ulas, thanks!

I love the oak woodwork and now looking at your profile know why...you built harpsichords  

Where does one find sheer nylon?  Don't tell me my wife's drawers....

I have read many of the Maggie tweeks out there and have used some of them but, at least on the MMG, the greatest failing is that of resolution. It finally dawned on me as to why recently.  

It's probably not of issue on the 3's as they weigh 100 lbs or so each, but the smaller Maggies (MMG, MG12 and to a certain extent 1.6's) are built on such flimsy particleboard or thin MDF they vibrate in unison to the panels.  Sometime soon, I'm going to spray these panels with Quiet Kote Damping Spray, asphalt shingles or similar and or Plast-i-Clay modelling clay to damp unwanted resonances.    

In a small test the past weeknd, I put a mere 1/2 lb of Plast-i-Clay in the grooved oak side panels and securely screwed them down to the panels/frames. The improvement was well beyond what I expected for something so simple and gave me a taste of better things to come when I damp the entire particleboard panel.

The greatest failing of these particular speaker, that of resolution, has already been improved slightly.  Damping the MDF or particleboard surround panels/frame should yield terrific improvements in that area.

I belive much of the improvement one gets in going from MMG-MG12-1.6's is resolution (and deeper bass, of course) and I think much has to do with the speaker weights rising from 20 lbs to 31 to 50 or so.  Heavier frames vibrate less in unison with the panels.  The 3's and 20's are already fairly heavy and have real ribbon hi frequency sections...making resolution a quite good to start.  Tho, those 50 lbs lead bricks of yours could've helped further.

Or so I hope my theory is correct....got my easy-to-use staple gun ready when the urge to prove it happens.

[Ulas]

Steve, I replaced the caps in both crossovers.

ChairGuy, as I recall, I got the nylon fabric from the Tweak Shop. I doubt they still have any. A fabric store would be better bet.

My MG-3 panels are made of fiberboard and the side rails are fastened with a couple of screws. Not very rigid. That’s why the increased mass, especially on the top, makes such a big improvement. I think the increased weight with the higher numbered models is simply a function of their larger size. More panel, more frame, more magnets, etc. The effectiveness of their added mass is counterbalanced by their increased membrane area and increased height, making a bigger sail to flap in the breeze. I found adding 50-lbs to the top of the panel yielded more improvement than everything else, combined. Of course, everything is interrelated. I wouldn’t recommend adding 50-lbs to the top of the panel unless there was reinforced structure to support it and at least 150-lbs on the base to counterbalance it!

I did a similar upgrade to a friend’s lesser model Magnepan. I forget which model, perhaps 1.5 or something. When I pulled off the original sock I was surprised to find the panel was made of sheet steel. It rang like a bell! Using contact cement, I glued pieces of dense particleboard to every square inch of steel. That, and upgraded caps for the x-over were a big improvement.

[andyr]

I did these mods to my MG-3s about 15 years ago and the speakers have been in storage for the past five years.  and ...

Ulas,

With respect, I suggest that what you've done to your IIIAs is only half the picture.

By all means, upgrade BOTH the internal and external crossovers by using high quality parts.  This will make them sound better.

However, there are several other enhancements which are worth doing:

1.  When you say "replace the sock with sheer nylon", if the sock you replaced was the strange, cream-coloured, slub-weave sock then yes, I agree.  But if your IIIAs had the sheer black socks which mine do, then I don't think any other material would be more conductive, sonically speaking (but I'm happy to be proved wrong!).

2.  Get rid of those pathetic stock feet!  Putting "lead bricks" on the feet and on top of the panels does not stop them rocking back and forth - which is the "achilles heel" of these large speakers.

You need some metal stands which a) have a heavy base and b) clamp or bolt to the frame at several places ... so the IIIA panel absolutely cannot move!!  "Mye" stands are excellent but you can make better!

3.  Whether you then have tip-toes or spikes to anchor the bases to the floor is a moot point ... some people say the speakers should be isolated from the floor; others say spikes are best.  I suspect it probably depends on whether you have a suspended wooden floor or a ground-floor concrete slab.

4.  Get rid of those pathetic wooden side-pieces.  In place of them, glue aluminium U-channel to the sides of the MDF panel (underneath the socks).  This stiffens the panels considerably.  If you want to go the whole hog, glue U-channel across the top and bottom as well!

5.  Reverse the base/mid-panel assembly, so the metal is at the back (this also requires you to reverse the ribbon speaker wires, to keep the same relative polarity).

6.  If you *really* want to get serious, cut the panel from top to bottom between the mid-panel and the ribbon-cage.  In other words, you need some fancy metal stands which support the ribbon separately from the base/mid-panel assembly.  This stops base vibrations from jiggling the ribbon-cage (however, it's very hard to do!).

7.  Bypass the crap stock cable-connectors and the mid-panel fuse.

8.  If you like taking risks, bypass the ribbon fuse as well (I haven't been game to do this yet!).

Regards,

Andy

[Ulas]

With respect, I suggest that what you've done to your IIIAs is only half the picture.

First and foremost, my Maggies are MG-3s, as I stated, not MG-IIIAs. There is a difference.

By all means, upgrade BOTH the internal and external crossovers by using high quality parts. This will make them sound better.

I did not upgrade BOTH the internal and external crossover. I ELIMINATED the external crossover by incorporating it in the base of the panel. There is a difference.

For you point by point criticisms:

1. My MG-3s had thick, wooly socks, that’s why I replaced them with sheer nylon.

2. There is nothing stock about the feet on my speakers. The stock foot was a sheet of hardboard that was simply screwed to the bottom of the panel with no bracing of any kind. Furthermore, the bottom of the panel was cut at an angle so the speaker canted back at about 10 degrees. And yes, increasing the total mass does prevent rocking. 255-lbs. supported by three points on a brick floor does not move. The 50-lbs. on top increases the rotational inertia of the panel and prevents the top from moving in response to any frequency in the audible range. Sometimes a little additional mass, in the right place, does more than a lot of additional bracing.

3. The purpose of the Tip Toes is to establish a solid, three-point connection with the floor and prevent any rocking or tipping.

4. The added panel covering the x-over is screwed directly to the speaker panel and both are screwed to the base. There is additional reinforcement along the sides and across the top. The “pathetic side-pieces” are there to maintain the original appearance.

5. I tried them both ways. In my room I preferred the stock orientation. I also fine-tuned the response by covering/uncovering different patterns of holes in the metal plate.

6. The extra 50-lbs. mass on top of the panel is there to prevent the bass vibrations from jiggling the tweeter.

7. I replaced the stock connectors but I had to remove the replacements to get the speakers to fit in the original boxes for storage. If you look closely you can see two empty holes on the cover plate next to the second pair of stock connectors that I left in place.

8. The fuses were among of the first things to go, along with the silly resistor tweak, which was popular in the MG-3 at the time.

My goal, 15 years ago, was to improve the sound while maintaining the classic appearance of the original MG-3. My mods are not the last word in Maggy mods. I wanted to share what I did to give others ideas on what can be done. If you can do better, go ahead, and post pictures of your work.

[TheChairGuy]

If you can do better, go ahead, and post pictures of your work

That would be great...as Ulas has done.

I'm so new to the Maggie experience, but it is certainly a most decent stock speaker and so remarkably tweakable.

I plan to start bracing and eliminate flexing immediately now.  I had an opportunity the last couple days to really listen at length to music and what I heard was very appealling.  Resolution is below par for the money, but nearly everything else was in the much-higher-$$ category of music production.  This speaker (the whole line) begs to be tweaked.

andyr, other than the Mye stands, what stands do you suggest that are DIY'ed and better?

[mac]

andyr, other than the Mye stands, what stands do you suggest that are DIY'ed and better?

If you don't mind me butting in...  Prior to Grant starting up his business I published this maggie stand construction page.  IMO you don't need to spend several hundred dollars to reap the benefits that improved panel rigidity provides.

[andyr]

That would be great...as Ulas has done.

This speaker (the whole line) begs to be tweaked ...

I'd certainly post some pictures ... if I knew how to accomplish this!  

And, yes, I agree that the BEST thing about Maggies is the fact that you can tweak them so much ... ie. a fantastic speaker is limited by the compromises made in manufacturing but when you tweak, you can end up with a far better sounding speaker!

Regards,

Andy

[Horizons]

These tweaks primarly apply to the latest MMG's only.

Chairguy, you are right about the biggest weakness in the MMG:

1. The panels are flimsy.
2. They are too short.
3. The xover is weak to say the least.

I removed the socks and bought a few large tubes of black silicon sealant. Using a caulking gun, I liberally coated both sides of the panel particularly where the membrane is fastened to the panel. My MMGs were essentially stapled to the frames - what a joke. After a generous coating of silicon and 48 hours of curing time, I was amazed at how dead and solid the new frames sounded. They no longer where ringing like a telephone.

Then I built some Maggie stands using the following plans as a guide. All of the materials can be purchased at Home Depot. With the Maggies raised approx. 8 inches, they sound VERY close to the 12 and 1.6 models. You do lose some bass though...

http://maggies-legs.netfirms.com/

The newer generation of the MMG xover uses a simple 6 db high and low pass xover versus the original MMG that used a xover much like that in the 12 and 1.6. Using the older xover model here:

http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/tweaks/tazmon/MMG_as_is.gif

I built a new set over xovers using a Sledgehammer inductor and solens for the low pass and (stay calm) a Black Gate AC cap for the high pass with a small paper in oil bypass cap.

I never could find a brand of plastic film cap that I liked. They all sounded bright with an added sheen. Even the film and foil types. I had read that Audionote used black gate caps in all of their speaker crossovers so I thought I would give them a try. They make a 22 uF cap that is close enough in value and sounds great. I am using that same cap in my upgraded 1.6QRs and have never looked back.

One last thing that is easy to do is to bypass alot of the wiring on the connector plate. I also directly soldered in a .5 ohm mills resistor and bypassed the fuse plate.

I ultimately sold my MMGs to get the 1.6QRs but there are times when I really miss the little Maggies. In the right room, with the right setup, they can sound like multi-thousand dollar speakers.

[andyr]

Thanks, ChairGuy,

Ive uploaded into the Gallery some pictures of the stands I had made up for my IIIAs but I can't figure out how to get the URL.  They are on p36 of the Gallery.

The stands bolt to the back of the panels.

Regards,

Andy[/img]

[Red Dragon Audio]

You did a very nice job on those stands.  Great work!