SPATIAL X2 modular - RMAF Unveiling

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JackD

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Re: SPATIAL X2 modular - RMAF Unveiling
« Reply #180 on: 8 Aug 2018, 03:38 am »
Another option which you could mark and then move when not in use would be a pair of stand up diffusers from GIK. Then you could have equal distance from the rear of the speaker.

Hear Clifford Brown

Re: SPATIAL X2 modular - RMAF Unveiling
« Reply #181 on: 8 Aug 2018, 04:09 am »
Great idea  :thumb:

SlushPuppy

Re: SPATIAL X2 modular - RMAF Unveiling
« Reply #182 on: 8 Aug 2018, 02:20 pm »
Another option which you could mark and then move when not in use would be a pair of stand up diffusers from GIK. Then you could have equal distance from the rear of the speaker.

Good advice. I also have a less than perfect listening room. I have two GIK Freestanding Acoustic Panels in the back of my room that I place near my speakers when listening to music. They make a huge difference.

Hear Clifford Brown

Re: SPATIAL X2 modular - RMAF Unveiling
« Reply #183 on: 8 Aug 2018, 06:15 pm »
I've got two GIK free standing panels in the room already, one at each side of the room.  24" wide by 60" tall by 4" deep.  You can see them in the second and third pictures in my post above.  GIK calls them "FreeStand Bass Traps" in the 4" version and "FreeStand Absorption Panels" in the 2" version.  I placed them at the first reflection points for use with my previous speakers.  Might not be needed there now with OB speakers, but after removing them I noticed an echo when standing in the middle of the room while talking, so put them back.

I like the idea of using free standing panels behind the speakers to get equal distance behind each speaker.  I think they should be diffusion panels.  My view of GIK's diffusion products called Alpha and Impression Series is they are an absorption panel with a "thin face plate that has mathematical sequence of slots for spatial diffusion."  The face plate looks to be no more than a 1/4" and it's hard to see how that can do much in the way of diffusion, but I could be wrong.  The rectangle version is available with free standing supports but the panels are only 23" by 45.5" high.  I'm not sure that's tall enough but GIK says custom sizes are available.  If I can get them 60" tall I think it would be an option that would help to even out the wall behind the speakers. 

Actually now that I'm home and measuring, the standard height of 45.5" might be fine.
« Last Edit: 9 Aug 2018, 01:41 am by Hear Clifford Brown »

Hear Clifford Brown

Re: SPATIAL X2 modular - RMAF Unveiling
« Reply #184 on: 9 Aug 2018, 01:40 pm »
Last night I did as Clayton suggested and increased the toe-in angle.  Rotated the outside leg forward 2 inches while keeping the inside leg stationary.  WOW !!  Vast improvement in every way, including the bass.  Not sure why the bass improvement but doesn't matter, it's good.  The system just has a great balance. It sounds super clean with completely non-fatiguing detail. It seems to be more engaging and has just more of everything, attack of instruments with increased definition in every way.  I hear effortless dynamics, resolution, clarity, openness, sound that is nuanced and intricately detailed, provides an utterly convincing spatial rendering, localization, and tonal character of instruments.  Tonight I'll move them farther apart, which Clayton also suggested after seeing room pictures.






 

2oldcranks

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Re: SPATIAL X2 modular - RMAF Unveiling
« Reply #185 on: 9 Aug 2018, 02:32 pm »
Envious here with my M4TMs :green:
Check out the PIAudio site(ARGH!) or Agon for their diffusers, picked up four and they are for OB speakers(one of the two profiles)
Vert Happy with them, Wifey  heard instant clearing up of rear reflections,lightweight cast foam 24"x48" easy to move ,hang.Could easily make a stand for em cheap

 Going to take awhile but X2s are first audio product I started a "NUT" for, in a couple years some kind soul will gut Luminas and I will give their X2s a loving home, Or I can buy lotto tix! :lol:
Enjoy those BMFs

Hear Clifford Brown

Re: SPATIAL X2 modular - RMAF Unveiling
« Reply #186 on: 9 Aug 2018, 06:02 pm »
Thanks for the reminder on PI Audio diffusers.  I've looked at them before.  They might even be a good replacement for what I have on the front wall now, which I bought dirt cheap on Agon, and I'm not sure how effective they are.

Hear Clifford Brown

Re: SPATIAL X2 modular - RMAF Unveiling
« Reply #187 on: 6 Dec 2018, 02:56 pm »
SlushPuppy I noticed you are moving to a tube integrated.  If you don't mind, which one?

SlushPuppy

Re: SPATIAL X2 modular - RMAF Unveiling
« Reply #188 on: 6 Dec 2018, 03:10 pm »
SlushPuppy I noticed you are moving to a tube integrated.  If you don't mind, which one?

I bought a PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premium HP from Upscale Audio yesterday. It checked all the
blocks for me. Auto-bias, ability to roll multiple tubes, great reviews. I'm stoked! I haven't had
tubes in my system in 18 years!


Hear Clifford Brown

Re: SPATIAL X2 modular - RMAF Unveiling
« Reply #189 on: 6 Dec 2018, 05:00 pm »
Cool!  I'll be interested in how it sounds with the X2's, my assumption would be very good, based on: "Delivering 70 watts per channel from EL34's, 80 watts from KT88's, 84 watts from KT120's, and 96 watts from KT150's."  I really liked my 17 watt tube amp with the M3TM's.  Would like to try a higher output tube amp with my X2's.

SlushPuppy

Re: SPATIAL X2 modular - RMAF Unveiling
« Reply #190 on: 6 Dec 2018, 09:52 pm »
I just got the shipping notification from Upscale Audio, so hopefully I'll have it by the end of next week. It won't fit in my current stand (new one on order) so it's going to look pretty messy for a couple of weeks.


Cheers!

Dave

SlushPuppy

Re: SPATIAL X2 modular - RMAF Unveiling
« Reply #191 on: Yesterday at 02:22 am »
My listening room has serious issues. I've discussed it in length many times so I won't bother repeating it again. I can't begin to tell you the number of amps, integrated amps, DAC's and loudspeaker combinations I've tried in that room over the past three years to try and get SOMETHING I could listen to for more than a few albums before turning it off in complete frustration. My GIK room treatments helped tremendously, but every time I cranked the music up above a certain volume everything fell apart and I got extreme listener fatigue. My last integrated amp was a Lyngdorf Audio TDAI-2170. It was a very special sounding integrated amp with built-in room correction that NEARLY got me to my special place, but in the end my shitty room won again. If you have a "normal" rectangular listening room it would probably be the perfect "all-in-one" Amp/DAC/room correction device.

I can't begin to tell you the number of hours I put into finding this combination, but I have finally found sonic nirvana with the following: Spatial Audio X2's with a Primaluna DiaLogue Premium HP integrated amplifier (stock tubes) and a Schiit Yggdrasil DAC. All cables are Cardas Parsec except for one digital cable from Pangea Audio (Audio Advisor) that uses Cardas Grade One Copper. I'm one week into this combination and I can't stop listening to music. I've played at least 30 albums from start to finish and every one sounds better than I've ever heard them before. Music just floats around the room. On really great recordings - like electronic music on the !K7 label - shit is just everywhere! Front, back, top-to-bottom, and everything extends way beyond the speakers. The first and only album by Peace Orchestra is SCARY good! Box speakers used to completely rattle my room when the bass hit a certain frequency, but not with the X2's in this system. Bass is deep and powerful without the nasty side effects.

The Lumina L2's keep me wondering how much better it can be, but for now... I'm there.  :thumb:

Slush

« Last Edit: Yesterday at 04:11 am by SlushPuppy »

Whitestix

  • Jr. Member
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Re: SPATIAL X2 modular - RMAF Unveiling
« Reply #192 on: Yesterday at 02:27 am »
I have a Rogue Audio Atlas Magnum headed my way as we speak to power my M4 Triode Master's.  My TM's present a 12 ohm load to the amp.  I vastly  preferred a fine potent SS amp with my earlier version of the speakers -- the Turbo S, which also had a nominal 4 ohm load.  Let us know how the Prima Luna amp sounds in your system. 

Hear Clifford Brown

Re: SPATIAL X2 modular - RMAF Unveiling
« Reply #193 on: Yesterday at 02:45 am »
Congrats Slush on getting where you are, music bliss.  It's interesting that since you have a difficult room, you are getting better results without DSP room correction that the Lyngdorf has with it's "Room Perfect."  I did a lot of research on both Lyngdorf Room Perfect and DEQX, and thought wow, people are reporting such improvement with both of those, I'm so tempted to try one.  But then by chance was on the phone with Clayton regarding something else, and I mentioned my interest in DEQX.  After that conversation I dropped the idea because after using it for a time, Clayton didn't like it either.  Was missing the emotional involvement of the music; something along those lines.  So it seems you came to the same conclusion.   

SlushPuppy

Re: SPATIAL X2 modular - RMAF Unveiling
« Reply #194 on: Yesterday at 02:51 am »
Forgot to mention that the Triode setting on the Primaluna beats the Ultralinear setting on every album I've played. In my room, with my system, blah, blah, blah...

Tyson

Re: SPATIAL X2 modular - RMAF Unveiling
« Reply #195 on: Yesterday at 03:09 am »
Great OB speakers solve room issues in a way that box speakers (even with EQ) just can't.  Welcome to the club :)

SlushPuppy

Re: SPATIAL X2 modular - RMAF Unveiling
« Reply #196 on: Yesterday at 03:24 am »
Congrats Slush on getting where you are, music bliss.  It's interesting that since you have a difficult room, you are getting better results without DSP room correction that the Lyngdorf has with it's "Room Perfect."  I did a lot of research on both Lyngdorf Room Perfect and DEQX, and thought wow, people are reporting such improvement with both of those, I'm so tempted to try one.  But then by chance was on the phone with Clayton regarding something else, and I mentioned my interest in DEQX.  After that conversation I dropped the idea because after using it for a time, Clayton didn't like it either.  Was missing the emotional involvement of the music; something along those lines.  So it seems you came to the same conclusion.

When I bought the Lyngdorf last year I didn't have any room treatments. When I ran the "Room Perfect" program for the first time it displayed a 28% correction for my room (if I remember correctly - it was pretty high). The improvement was substantial. After I bought the GIK room treatments I re-ran it and it displayed a correction of around 8%. I have lot's of GIK treatments on the front and back walls now. You can see them in my AudioCircle systems page. I'll soon have heavy drapes on the window side of my room which will help even more. Treat your room if you can before trying a software approach. Much better results in the end.

SlushPuppy

Re: SPATIAL X2 modular - RMAF Unveiling
« Reply #197 on: Yesterday at 03:28 am »
Great OB speakers solve room issues in a way that box speakers (even with EQ) just can't.  Welcome to the club :)

In the end that's what I finally realized...  8)

brj

Re: SPATIAL X2 modular - RMAF Unveiling
« Reply #198 on: Yesterday at 05:27 am »
Great OB speakers solve room issues in a way that box speakers (even with EQ) just can't.  Welcome to the club :)

I might generalize that statement to state that matching the directivity (frequency dependent radiation pattern and power response) of your speakers to your room geometry limitations and speaker placement limitations and then choosing treatments appropriate to the combination will go a long way toward achieving sonic bliss.

That statement is in no way meant to minimize the benefits of OB speakers, but rather to encourage folks to understand why they can be a good option, and under what conditions, in particular.  For example, Clayton doesn't recommend putting the X2s right up against a wall, so if that's a limitation you can't avoid, then other options may be more appropriate.  In short, knowledge is power, and physics always wins! :)