Smaller alternative to Realtraps?

8thnerve · « **Reply #20 on:** 7 Dec 2004, 09:18 pm »

Quote from: ctviggen

Nathan,

Are you saying that the new products' frequency response depends on distance to the wall's surface? If so, do you tell people how to figure out what distance to use?

Well, yes, in a nutshell. The mounting system allows for rapid adjustment of the product->wall distance. The further out the product from the wall, the more bass absorption you get with a sacrifice in treble absorption, the closer you are, the inverse happens. Imagine it like a seesaw for your overall frequency response. It doesn't change by a radical amount of course, but enough to fine tune it to your space. This is one of the aspects of the product that is covered by the patent application, but by no means the most important aspect.

I have found that around 1/2" works best for the most balanced response. However, the product at any distance provides a significant amount of bass attenuation for problem bass frequencies. This is because it fixes certain problems that exacerbate the room modes already present due to room geometry. It will provide very little attenuation overall at most frequencies (the mean SPL will not be significantly changed), but significant attenuation at frequencies that are "peaks" in your room. Think of it as analog room correction.

zybar · « **Reply #21 on:** 7 Dec 2004, 09:50 pm »

Quote from: ctviggen

George,

How did you make your links so small?

Bob,

What do you mean by links?

George

F-100 · « **Reply #22 on:** 7 Dec 2004, 09:56 pm »

He was referring to your signature link.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #23 on:** 7 Dec 2004, 10:00 pm »

Just because George has a small link....no need to pick on him !!

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #24 on:** 7 Dec 2004, 11:20 pm »

You've heard of shrinkage, haven't you?

ctviggen's little link

ctviggen · « **Reply #25 on:** 8 Dec 2004, 12:34 am »

So, how do I make it small? When I look at the source for the current page, it looks like the following:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=420 target="_blank" class="postlink"> ctviggen's little link

Is this what I have to do?

ctviggen · « **Reply #26 on:** 8 Dec 2004, 12:35 am »

Ha! It worked. (There's no way I'm going to remember how to do that, though. I better work on this soon, before I forget.)

Tonto Yoder · « **Reply #27 on:** 8 Dec 2004, 12:44 am »

Quote from: ctviggen

Ha! It worked. (There's no way I'm going to remember how to do that, though. I better work on this soon, before I forget.)

Grasshopper,
once I was in the dark as you are. Now I know secrets.

zybar · « **Reply #28 on:** 8 Dec 2004, 01:46 am »

Quote from: 8thnerve

George, mostly true. I said the frames probably won't fix your problem as you were experienceing an extreme hump at 80 Hz, but they will certainly have an impact. I would rather be conservative in my claims and have the customer be pleasantly surprised than the inverse.

The newer products are much more effective at lower frequencies, and are thinner. Based on placement and distance from the product to the wall surface, you can achieve better bass absorption than you would be able to calculate using th ...

Nathan,

No problem. I appreciated the honesty (especially since it wasn't at 80 Hz, but more in the 40 and 60 HZ areas) and not trying to sell me something that probably wouldn't do what I needed. That type of behavior isn't seen by all vendors....

I DO use your seams and corners to great effect and recommend your products in that area.

Best of luck on your new line.

George

AintJoM0mma · « **Reply #29 on:** 10 Dec 2004, 08:38 pm »

Thanks for all your great tips guys. What I meant when I said realtraps were too big was, yeah theyre fine for midwall, but theyre too bulky for corners or anything where walls meet walls. I decided im going to get Echobusters, which I hear are incredible, or wait for the new 8th Nerve stuff.

What do you guys think of Echobusters? I never heard them mentioned in this thread, but when I ask individuals its a common response.

I also like how the Echobusters look, theyre light yet effective. Espically the bass traps.

With my new line arrays, im going to need some bass help.

ctviggen · « **Reply #30 on:** 10 Dec 2004, 09:39 pm »

How do you know they're effective? I can't find any data on what they do (i.e., in terms of performance) on the Echobusters website. Plus, they seem to be priced at about what the Real Traps stuff is (not sure about Eigth Nerve stuff). Moreover, they seem to be pretty darn close to the same size as the Real Traps stuff. Personally, I wouldn't buy these over Real Traps, because at least Real Traps gives you data about their products.

zybar · « **Reply #31 on:** 10 Dec 2004, 10:50 pm »

Quote from: ctviggen

How do you know they're effective? I can't find any data on what they do (i.e., in terms of performance) on the Echobusters website. Plus, they seem to be priced at about what the Real Traps stuff is (not sure about Eigth Nerve stuff). Moreover, they seem to be pretty darn close to the same size as the Real Traps stuff. Personally, I wouldn't buy these over Real Traps, because at least Real Traps gives you data about their products.

I had the Phase 4 tube traps or whatever you want to call them and in NO WAY did they perform anywhere close to the MiniTraps.

They are also taller, but not as wide. Here is a MiniTrap in a front corner:

George

Kevin P · « **Reply #32 on:** 10 Dec 2004, 11:40 pm »

There really is no short-cuts when it comes to broadband absorption like this. The Realtraps are a great product at a VERY reasonable price. So much so that we are going to add them to our line of products.

You can find slimmer products but they are not going to hold a candle to the performance of the realtrap.

AintJoM0mma · « **Reply #33 on:** 11 Dec 2004, 08:46 pm »

Well, do you suggest I wait for 8th nerve stuff then?

JLM · « **Reply #34 on:** 12 Dec 2004, 06:12 pm »

You can always wait, ususally it pays off.

The previous 8th Nerve products cost about 1/7th of the Real Trap to get the room packs of each. The visual impact factor of the 8th Nerve stuff is also about 1/7th as much as the Real Traps. In a small room you may not have enough free wall or corner space to mount a full room pack of panels.

zybar · « **Reply #35 on:** 12 Dec 2004, 06:19 pm »

Quote from: JLM

You can always wait, ususally it pays off.

The previous 8th Nerve products cost about 1/7th of the Real Trap to get the room packs of each. The visual impact factor of the 8th Nerve stuff is also about 1/7th as much as the Real Traps. In a small room you may not have enough free wall or corner space to mount a full room pack of panels.

The 8th Nerve products can't do what the MiniTraps do - period!! It is not an apples to apples comparison so I am not sure why you are discussing price.

The 8th Nerve room pack will address more HF and some midrange while the purpose of the MiniTraps is more slanted towards the low bass side.

If you are seriously trying to improve room acoustics, the best solution I have found is a combination of the two.

You might want to wait to see if the new 8th Nerve products will be more competitive when it comes to bass acoustics (which is even more important in a small room). Also remember that the new 8th Nerve will be more expensive than their current products.

George

Red Dragon Audio · « **Reply #36 on:** 13 Dec 2004, 01:40 am »

Quote from: JLM

You can always wait, ususally it pays off.

The previous 8th Nerve products cost about 1/7th of the Real Trap to get the room packs of each. The visual impact factor of the 8th Nerve stuff is also about 1/7th as much as the Real Traps. In a small room you may not have enough free wall or corner space to mount a full room pack of panels.

and are about 1/70th as effective...

The RoomPack sells for $270. You can buy 2 boxes of rigid fiberglass panels in varying thicknesses and densities and treat ALL your acoustic problems with ease...plus it will be FAR more effective and useful than the tiny room pack. Oh and you need some fabric to cover the panels as well as something to fasten it all to the walls.

I will outline it for you:

1)Get a box of 2" thick 2.00-2.50 PCF (pounds per cubic foot; density) Knauf Fiberglass panels. They come in 2'x4' sheets and usually 6 sheets per box. That covers 48sqft of your listening room and should be used for high frequency stuff. COST ~ $75/box I would use this at the first reflection points, on the front wall behind your speakers and perhaps the first reflection on the ceiling if you feel it's really needed there. (this first section was for broadband mid/high frequency absorbtion).

2)Get a box of 2"thick 4.25-6.00PCF Knauf Fiberglass panels. Same thing applies here; 48sqft total coverage per box. COST ~ $110/box Now cut one panel in half so you have two 2'x2' panels. Cut those into triangles and you have "corners". With just ONE panel! You have 5 more panels left which can be used in the vertical corners of the room. The fifth one could be used for the wall/ceiling corner directly behind you or the speakers. (what I just outlined is for broad band bass absorbtion)

COST THUS FAR: $185

NOW add your choice of fabric and wall fasteners and we're probably looking at about $300max. How many sqft have we covered? 96sqft if you used ALL of it. But if you found you only needed some of it, then less. However, this represents a far more effective way to go and for about the same money.

JLM · « **Reply #37 on:** 13 Dec 2004, 01:46 am »

George,

I have no experience with either product, so I didn't want to speak as to their effectiveness. Besides I felt that the basics had already been covered.

Not wanting to slam either vendor, but based on previous postings around here your comparison of each product line seems very in line with everything I've read about both. I'm not always the best diplomat.

Yes, there's lots of room available for DIY when it comes to room treatments.