[AmpDesigner333]

The 147th AES show was focused on IMMERSIVE audio just concluded October 19th 2019 and the MAIN theme was immersive audio is ALL that was going on. Right now Dolby Atmos and Sony's new 360D and the feeling at the show was that stereo is DEAD and everything is being remixed and the studios are focusing on IMMERSIVE audio. This is not surround if you are confused. Immersive audio can be experienced in your room with a traditional 5.1 surround setup and then adding additional height channels high on the wall or in the ceiling.

Check out this CEDIA podcast:

https://www.cedia.net/insights/cedia-blog-detail/blog/2019/10/25/the-cedia-podcast-episode-147-the-latest-in-audio-engineering

We will be doing an immersive demo at AXPONA in April.  Can you suggest some tracks to play?  Thanks.

[witchdoctor]

We will be doing an immersive demo at AXPONA in April.  Can you suggest some tracks to play?  Thanks.

Hi Tommy, I think Riders on the Storm sounds great in immersive as that thunder in the beginning of the song comes from above you. Any kind of electronic dance music will literally sound exactly like you are standing in the middle of a night club or a rave. Big band music like Sing Sing Sing will have your hair blowing back like the guy in the Maxell Tape ad. I think demoing something recorded in a live setting is very important in an immersive mix as you feel like the audience is all around you. Queen Live at Wembley always knocks my sox off. I subscribe to Qello.com which has hundreds of concert videos if you are also using a PJ in the demo. Turn down the lights, fire up Freddy on the big screen and add your immersive upmixer and you are there.

You should absolutely get the new Atmos mix of Abbey Road as this is where the puck seems to be headed as more and more recordings will be released  remixed for atmos or Sony 360.

As for your speaker placement I would use 5.1 bed channels and add 2 front height channels above the L-R speakers and then 2 rear height channels. Atmos places rear height channels at the back of the room in line with the front L-R channels. Auro 3D, and DTS place the rear height channels above the surrounds. I would recommend using book shelves for surrounds. To get started anyone who has a 7.1 system can take the rear 2 speakers and place them above the front L-R channels and now you have a 5.1.2 immersive system. I would avoid replicating ceiling speakers as I think they are a barrier to entry for most people thinking about an immersive setup. Bookshelve speakers work great as height channels mounted high on the wall.

I think you have a competitive advantage in that your amps run cool and are rack friendly.

For a demo I would also think about starting a familiar track in two channel and after you get that first smile hit the remote and switch right into the immerive upmixer and watch the smiles turned into jaws dropping. Please post your thoughts.I am very interested in your take on this and read the reviews from your last demo with the 5 channel cherries.

https://youtu.be/X8uPIquE5Oo

[witchdoctor]

Also VERY important, DTS-X let's you be flexible with speaker placement and we seem to be moving toward a lot more 16 channel processor like Brystons SP4. For music I personnally think wide channels add a lot to an immersive mix. If you have access to a 16 channel processor I would go with a 9.2.4 setup and include the wide channels. The dolby surround upmixer doesn't use the wides but you can engage them using the DTS Neural X upmixer.

If you are partnering with audiokinesis ask duke about using that 4 unit subwoofer array he has, that would be the cheryy on your 5 channel cherry immersive cake IMO.

[PeteG]

I listened to Kenny Wayne Shepherd's new album (Traveler) on Qobuz so I decided to pick it up and seen it was available on Blu-ray so I got it. I'm very happy with the atmos mix because it sounds like a good 2ch mix with air and space in my room.

TV screen pic.

[witchdoctor]

Thanks for the heads up, I'll order it. 

The Ultra HD version on Amazon sounds damn good too.

[witchdoctor]

I didn't realize immersive audio has its own category at the Grammy's. From the Immersive Audio Album website:

Immersive audio is the three-dimensional approach to audio storytelling that is taking sound to new heights. While traditional “surround sound” exists in a horizontal plane around the listener, immersive sound refers to an expanded sonic field that quite literally immerses the listener in a multi-dimensional soundscape. The Recording Academy as of 2019 has renamed their Grammy for Best Surround Sound Album to “Best Immersive Audio Album” in order to include the many immersive formats beyond surround sound – such as Auro, Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, and more.

You can see the 2020 Grammy candidates and a lot of good info here:

https://immersiveaudioalbum.com

[AmpDesigner333]

Hi Tommy, I think Riders on the Storm sounds great in immersive as that thunder in the beginning of the song comes from above you. Any kind of electronic dance music will literally sound exactly like you are standing in the middle of a night club or a rave. Big band music like Sing Sing Sing will have your hair blowing back like the guy in the Maxell Tape ad. I think demoing something recorded in a live setting is very important in an immersive mix as you feel like the audience is all around you. Queen Live at Wembley always knocks my sox off. I subscribe to Qello.com which has hundreds of concert videos if you are also using a PJ in the demo. Turn down the lights, fire up Freddy on the big screen and add your immersive upmixer and you are there.

You should absolutely get the new Atmos mix of Abbey Road as this is where the puck seems to be headed as more and more recordings will be released  remixed for atmos or Sony 360.

As for your speaker placement I would use 5.1 bed channels and add 2 front height channels above the L-R speakers and then 2 rear height channels. Atmos places rear height channels at the back of the room in line with the front L-R channels. Auro 3D, and DTS place the rear height channels above the surrounds. I would recommend using book shelves for surrounds. To get started anyone who has a 7.1 system can take the rear 2 speakers and place them above the front L-R channels and now you have a 5.1.2 immersive system. I would avoid replicating ceiling speakers as I think they are a barrier to entry for most people thinking about an immersive setup. Bookshelve speakers work great as height channels mounted high on the wall.

I think you have a competitive advantage in that your amps run cool and are rack friendly.

For a demo I would also think about starting a familiar track in two channel and after you get that first smile hit the remote and switch right into the immerive upmixer and watch the smiles turned into jaws dropping. Please post your thoughts.I am very interested in your take on this and read the reviews from your last demo with the 5 channel cherries.

https://youtu.be/X8uPIquE5Oo

Here's the thread about our AXPONA 2019 demo, which was a 9.8.6 channel system:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=163293.0

We'd like to gather content for next year ASAP.  Thanks for any help you can provide with this!

[witchdoctor]

Sure, I'll post some links later. The BIG push at AES a few weeks ago was the labels pivot to immersive audio with Dolby Atmos and Sony 360 leading the charge. If you could partner woth either of them using THEIR content it would be intersting. You would likely have their help in promoting your demo which wouldn't hurt. Maybe an e-mail blast, a mention in their newsletter or SM pages. Sony is launching late fall and partnering with Tidal, Deezer and Nugs.net. They are making a BIG push and would likely be happy to co-promote with you at the show. If you like public speaking maybe even host a roundtable with you, Sony/Dolby, and one of their streaming service partners:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/360-reality-audio

As for Dolby they have music content on blueray available now. If you were doing a demo of one movie clip try Alita:

"There are several key moments that are worthy of mention, the alleyway battle, the barroom brawl which segues into the underground battle with Grewishka and the final Motorball arena sequence. Each contain a host of swirling effects, nearfield pans, and ambience that comes together in a resplendent blend of room traversing sound that shows what this format is capable of. I consider this Dolby Atmos mix to be involving, entertaining, and among the best that I have heard." Mark Henninger
 

For music I would go with a cut from the Abbey Road atmos mix

 "The Atmos (on Abbey Road) is just the icing on the cake, for anyone with an Atmos set up this is an absolute must have set.
Atmos just allows the music to breathe, and without doubt you hear things that you have never heard before, Incredible.Giles has done a great job with the Atmos he hasn't just put sounds anywhere just because he can." HD Movie Source

As for Sony 360 tracks I think you will have to wait until they drop them which could be anytime.

I would also recommend one demo using the upmixer emphasizing thie will work with music mixed in stereo too and that you don't need to replace music you already own. Maybe a cut you typically hear at an audio show that people are familiar with on a regular CD, start it in 2 channel and then one button on the remote and transition to immersive.

It will be intersting if you can get Dolby or Sony on board too. Keep us posted.

[witchdoctor]

Here is the link for more Atmos music titles:

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/experience/dolby-atmos/dolby-atmos-music-titles.html

and Auro 3D music/movie titles:

https://www.auro-3d.com/consumer/bluray

There are about 1000 new tracks to be released by Sony soon too but who knows if it will be in time for your demo.

[WGH]

If you want to blow your audience away and if your subs can handle it, AVS Forum has "The Ultimate List of BASS in Movies w/ Frequency Charts". Click on the movie to see the graph.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/2763785-ultimate-list-bass-movies-w-frequency-charts.html

Blade Runner 2049 and the beginning of Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) will bottom out woofers if your calibration is wrong (don't ask me how I know)

Blade Runner 2049 has powerful Dolby reference level bass from 15 Hz to 35 Hz



Free Dolby Atmos demo videos can be downloaded at:
Demo World
Demolandia
Official Dolby Website

 

[witchdoctor]

I listened to Kenny Wayne Shepherd's new album (Traveler) on Qobuz so I decided to pick it up and seen it was available on Blu-ray so I got it. I'm very happy with the atmos mix because it sounds like a good 2ch mix with air and space in my room.

TV screen pic.

I got the album yesterday THANKS! I agree, the atmos mix is done well. I thought my days of buying physical media were over but until they start streaming the atmos mixes I'll be buying more. just ordered Kraftwek 3D in atmos/blue ray.

http://kraftwerk.com/catalogue/index-BLUray.html

[PeteG]

just ordered Kraftwek 3D in atmos/blue ray.

http://kraftwerk.com/catalogue/index-BLUray.html

I've had it for awhile, very good mix.

[witchdoctor]

Nugs.net is launching IMMERSIVE audio in partnership with Sony "360 Reality Audio".
All you need is a set of headphones to try it out. Here are the shows that are available. I think "Volunteers" sounded MUCH better in 360:

The following shows/albums are currently available in 360 audio to nugs.net HiFi subscribers.

Bill Withers:

-Just as I am

Billy Joel:

-Piano Man

Dead & Company:

-12/2/17

The Disco Biscuits:

-Trance Fusion Radio Vol. 3

-12/31/18

-4/17/15

Herbie Hancock:

-Headhunters

Jefferson Airplane:

-Volunteers

Miles Davis:

-Bitches Brew

-In a Silent Way

-Kind of Blue

-Live - Evil

The String Cheese Incident:

-5/4/19

-6/29/19
Umphrey's McGee:

-It's Not Us

-8/11/18

-8/18/18

-8/24/18   


https://subscribe.nugs.net/?ccode=S360&nnpromo=S360PROMO&utm_source=nugsnewsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2019_sony360&utm_content=110619_launch

[witchdoctor]

I've had it for awhile, very good mix.

So I just watched it for the first time last might, excellent. They did a GREAT job with the atmos mix. My PJ does 3D so it really added to the feeling of being at the concert.

[witchdoctor]

Tidal is now streaming Sony 360 immersive format for headphone listening and very soon Amazon HD will be streaming Atmos music, check this out:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/immersive-audio-aes

[VinceT]

I have a denon avrx 4500 on the way today. I can't wait to play with the DTX and Auro 3D codex's.

[jp1]

how's it working out for you? looking at this one. thx

[VinceT]

I really like the Denon. It was well worth the money.

I have not adding a bunch of surround speakers yet just running 5.2 but it packs a nice punch. DAC isn't horrible either for easy streaming. Music actually sounds very nice.

[Early B.]

I believe the OP is on the right track for two-channel music listening. You need two things to make music sound like music -- a humungous soundstage and incredible dynamics. Two speakers simply won't get the job done. Look at it this way -- if you go to a small jazz club, it's gonna have at a bunch of speakers from the ceiling to the floor, and the band will sometimes bring additional speakers for specific instruments. At home, you're trying to duplicate live music with only two speakers, and often with a pair of punk-ass bookshelf speakers. Nah.

Audiophiles should learn lessons from the HT enthusiasts with regard to their approach to bass (i.e., multiple subs) and presence speakers along the front stage, but not behind the listener. Placing speakers behind the listener for music is artificial.

Some audiophiles have already discovered the benefit of multiple subs and swarms. I'd like to see audiophiles experiment with presence speakers to get more ambient sound from their systems.