[witchdoctor]

According to this article on the future of audio:

Over the next 20 to 30 years, 3D sound-field production and design will be one of the biggest growth areas in pro audio. Microphone designers, headphone makers, audio software engineers, and specialized post-production engineers will move from today's X-dot-X (5.1, etc.) paradigm to a seamlessly spherical, object-oriented sound field. If we plot a 3D audio growth chart with a two-year doubling projection, today's $1,000 3D audio solution will enjoy commodity pricing after 2025 combined with 100 times improvement in "spatial and timbral resolution experience" over headphones.

Conservatively, by 2030 we should realize highly realistic immersive audio as part of every low-cost portable device, gaming console, and home entertainment system. And by about 2040, on-ear audio should rival, or exceed, the subjective performance of today's best audiophile rooms and room speakers. Moreover, in a very short time (perhaps 2020?) common commercial music will be routinely mixed in full 3D immersion, and delivered in an open-source format (most likely a derivative of Atmos or Neo).


http://tapeop.com/interviews/100/the-future/

[witchdoctor]

This is where the puck is going IMO simply because immersive audio is better. I couldn't wait for 20-30 years until it is in every device like the article predicts. However prices have already started to drop on immersive capable receivers since they first came out in 2014. I bought my processor for half off the original MSRP when the next generation processor came out that did 4K. I am not interested in 4K so saved a pile of dough in the process.

[witchdoctor]

Nice white paper on setting up an Auro 3D home theater:

http://www.stormaudio.com/media/auro3d_home_theater_setup_guidelines_v7_20160119__014413500_1118_11082016.pdf

[witchdoctor]

Bob Stuart's opinion:

S&V: What to you think about the new object-based sound formats, Dolby Atmos, or Auro-3D?
Stuart: I think they’re better than we’ve had before because they have height. But there’s always been very good technology for that in the Ambisonic technology. Auro-3D gives the highest resolution in 3D sound.

So Bob Stuart agrees with me. The guy sells a TON of two channel gear yet clearly states he prefers adding height channels, go Bob
Maybe they will add an Auro3D processor soon to go with the MQA dac.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Maybe talk to Mr. Stuart about an industry wide cable that works across all brands. Something that isn't proprietary, and doesn't have a specific direction of insertion or polarity, ie; it can go in ether way, unlike USB and HDMI.
Thank you, and you're welcome.

[witchdoctor]

Maybe talk to Mr. Stuart about an industry wide cable that works across all brands. Something that isn't proprietary, and doesn't have a specific direction of insertion or polarity, ie; it can go in ether way, unlike USB and HDMI.
Thank you, and you're welcome.

NP, next time we do lunch I remind him (LOL)

[witchdoctor]

Now Sennheiser is getting into immersive audio with AMBEO technology:

http://en-de.sennheiser.com/news-shape-the-future-of-audio

and Pink Floyd is on board the 3D immersive audio train with them:

http://hometheaterhifi.com/press-releases/sennheiser-pink-floyd-create-unique-immersive-live-8-mix/

The AMBEO in home speaker layout is the same as Auro 3D FWIW. The layout for the demo with Pink Floyd is more similar to an Auro layout for a movie theater.

“Pink Floyd has worked with Sennheiser and Neumann microphones throughout their career. To come back to the Abbey Road studios to jointly work with the AMBEO 3D audio technology is a very special part within this collaboration”, said co-CEO Daniel Sennheiser. “3D audio is the new frontier of sound excellence, set to transform the listening experience for users. We are very happy to bring that special audio experience to The Pink Floyd Exhibition”, adds Dr Andreas Sennheiser."

Yo, me, Bob Stuart and Pink Floyd all chose immeresive audio for the same reason, its better! What's your excuse?

[Bob in St. Louis]

NP, next time we do lunch I remind him (LOL)

Cool, thanks man. Might want to see if you can get Mr. Lucas on bored with the idea. 

[witchdoctor]

Check this out, I never knew my condo looks like the recording studio at Abbey Road where they mix 3D audio for Pink Floyd. The same stands, same type of speakers, they even have a VOG channel!! Listen to Abbey Road engineer Simon Rhodes at 50 seconds into the video. He says he has been working in 5.1 for many years then 7.1. Now he is working in full immersion going back to stereo is impossible.
At 4 minutes in, "Once you heard it, you never want to go back". That explains how I feel perfectly and why I think this should be something everyone should try. OK, don't believe a witchdoctor, I get it. But Pink Floyd and Abbey Road? I would think they are reliable. The guy says listening to Pink Floyd in immersive audio is like hearing it for the first time. Yep!!!

https://youtu.be/yMlFN8V4qW4

[witchdoctor]

Yo, Witchdoctor Studios and Abbey Road, I like it

[witchdoctor]

Cool, thanks man. Might want to see if you can get Mr. Lucas on bored with the idea. 

Doh, I gotta call him back 

[Bendingwave]

Check this out, I never knew my condo looks like the recording studio at Abbey Road where they mix 3D audio for Pink Floyd. The same stands, same type of speakers, they even have a VOG channel!! Listen to Abbey Road engineer Simon Rhodes at 50 seconds into the video. He says he has been working in 5.1 for many years then 7.1. Now he is working in full immersion going back to stereo is impossible.
At 4 minutes in, "Once you heard it, you never want to go back". That explains how I feel perfectly and why I think this should be something everyone should try. OK, don't believe a witchdoctor, I get it. But Pink Floyd and Abbey Road? I would think they are reliable. The guy says listening to Pink Floyd in immersive audio is like hearing it for the first time. Yep!!!

https://youtu.be/yMlFN8V4qW4

Why did they go from 5.1 to 7.1 to 9.1 to 10.1 and even a 11.1 claiming with each increase in channels equals better/more immersed sound? Does more speakers mean more immersed or better surround sound? If that is the case one could make a 25.1 or even a 50.1 channel receiver for the ultimate in immersed sound. When is enough speakers enough speakers? I can understand the need for more speakers in BIGGER ROOMS but for the average joe with the average size listening room be it living room or bedroom needing 11 speakers is kind of over kill. I would not be surprised if by the end of the year someone will make a 12.1 or 13.1 channel receiver claiming the next best thing in the audio industry. 

[witchdoctor]

Why did they go from 5.1 to 7.1 to 9.1 to 10.1 and even a 11.1 claiming with each increase in channels equals better/more immersed sound? Does more speakers mean more immersed or better surround sound? If that is the case one could make a 25.1 or even a 50.1 channel receiver for the ultimate in immersed sound. When is enough speakers enough speakers? I can understand the need for more speakers in BIGGER ROOMS but for the average joe with the average size listening room be it living room or bedroom needing 11 speakers is kind of over kill. I would not be surprised if by the end of the year someone will make a 12.1 or 13.1 channel receiver claiming the next best thing is audio industry. 

Excellent questions. I can only share my experience. More speakers doesn't mean more improvement per se.
I know some of those DSP things like jaxx club or cathedral on my Sunfire Processor never sounded "better" to my taste just because they added channels. I think it is the algorithm that makes the difference. Atmos and Auro both have height channels. I think Atmos is more for movie effects while Auro is does both movies and music. I  don't like music upmixed in Atmos, regardless of additional speakers. 11 of the wrong speakers is overkill. 11 of the right speakers for your room are great. Speakers come in all sizes so I wouldn't get brain lock over it.
For example Tekton Pendragons are fine speakers but I couldn'tfit even one of them in my room. Paradigm Active 40's are about 24 inches tall and I fit six of them quite nicely as bed channels. I could have fit 6 Millenia's and attached them right on the wall even easier. Yet I still could not fit even one Tekton Pendragon. There are enough choises in speakers today that it shouldn't be too difficult. I would love to have 8 subs like Abbey road but just need to setlle for one. You work with your room, that's all. There are even on wall speakers today that hang like a picture. If you decide to try it you will find a way, no worries. Like the Abbey Road engineers say, listening to music in immersive is like hearing it for the first time and no way would you want to go back to 2 channel (although you can just by pushing a button on your remote)

My 7.1 system lasted for 15 years before I needed to get more speakers. I envision my current setup lasting at least for the next 15 years unless they invent a speaker that is a carpet.

[AJinFLA]

For music, especially upmixed from stereo, you don't need anywhere near 11 channels.
2 good stereo fronts (which I assume most here already have), 2 front heights and then 2 upward firing rears, should give full immersion. Maybe a voice of god above. These are still all "effects" channels outside the mains. As long as they don't distort, a wide variety of speakers can be used.
11 channels is for movies with discrete effects, i.e. Golum speaking over your shoulder etc.
For the sound of a concert hall, there is no need for 11 discrete, especially simulated.

[witchdoctor]

Here is a chance to try Auro 3D with 0 additional speakers... put on a set of headphones and try this:

https://www.facebook.com/Auro3D/videos/vb.214596845243373/1230780746958306/?type=2&theater

[witchdoctor]

Here is a nice example of a high WAF Auro 3D setup:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1507772645908714&set=p.1507772645908714&type=3&theater

Look how discrete the height channels are in this shot:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1644298042264994&set=p.1644298042264994&type=3&theater

[Bob in St. Louis]

Cool looking rooms, and certainly a "minimalist" approach to a multi-channel system.
Although, that headphone video.... I don't have any headphones, so I'm not hearing what I'm supposed to be hearing.
But I have heard some ambiophonic recordings (linked from this forum) that blew me away on my modest PC speakers.
Now... I'm a multi-channel kinda guy, buy when you can have better sound from two cheap PC speakers than I can from my "mega-system", then that tells me one thing.
That "somebody" is withholding tech and/or big business isn't allowing me to have it. Why doesn't everything have this kind of soundstage with my two speakers, and why can't my x.x system match that?
Kinda makes me mad.

[witchdoctor]

Cool looking rooms, and certainly a "minimalist" approach to a multi-channel system.
Although, that headphone video.... I don't have any headphones, so I'm not hearing what I'm supposed to be hearing.
But I have heard some ambiophonic recordings (linked from this forum) that blew me away on my modest PC speakers.
Now... I'm a multi-channel kinda guy, buy when you can have better sound from two cheap PC speakers than I can from my "mega-system", then that tells me one thing.
That "somebody" is withholding tech and/or big business isn't allowing me to have it. Why doesn't everything have this kind of soundstage with my two speakers, and why can't my x.x system match that?
Kinda makes me mad.

I never jumped on the SACD approach because I was too cheap to spend $30 a pop on the discs. But with all of the content available via streaming and I can just upmix I felt was a good value. As for cheap speakers prices keep coming down with SQ getting better. Dacs you can get today for $500 today rival $5000 dacs from 5 years or so ago.
It is getting better albeit a lot slower than the progress in video.

[Bob in St. Louis]

I never jumped on the SACD approach because I was too cheap to spend $30 a pop on the discs. But with all of the content available via streaming and I can just upmix I felt was a good value. As for cheap speakers prices keep coming down with SQ getting better. Dacs you can get today for $500 today rival $5000 dacs from 5 years or so ago.
It is getting better albeit a lot slower than the progress in video.

Uhhmmmm Ya got me there. 
I wasn't talking about SACD, DACs, discs, or streaming.
I was talking about what is capable of coming out of two speakers (ambiophonics) and being more impressive from a surround standpoint than "regular' two channel or multi-channel.
Have you heard ambio?

[witchdoctor]

Uhhmmmm Ya got me there. 
I wasn't talking about SACD, DACs, discs, or streaming.
I was talking about what is capable of coming out of two speakers (ambiophonics) and being more impressive from a surround standpoint than "regular' two channel or multi-channel.
Have you heard ambio?

No, I can't say I have. The closest I have come to an ambio experience is Bob Carver's Sonic Holography which I use in my desk top system. I know it is a poor comparison but its the closest I could use as an example.