OB Midbass, will this driver work?

jimbones · « **on:** 14 Feb 2017, 02:10 pm »

I am considering the use of the Satori MW16P-4 6" driver for OB use down to 275 hz. It's Qt is 0.27. Will that be an issue? I was going to use the driver as they are known for making great sounding drivers but if it is not appropriate for my application I may need to find something of similar sound quality with a higher Q. Thanks

mcgsxr · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 Feb 2017, 08:16 pm »

What is the FS and XMAX? XMAX likely more important as it dictates how much travel you have, and you may use more than you think on OB.

jimbones · « **Reply #2 on:** 14 Feb 2017, 08:31 pm »

Ahh OK I checked and it states "linear p to p travel 12mm" seems decent, no?

mcgsxr · « **Reply #3 on:** 14 Feb 2017, 11:47 pm »

I have never tried what you are suggesting, but a review of all the specs on it at Madisound's website seems to indicate to me that for your implementation (275Hz and up) it should work fine.

If you intend to biamp/triamp the setup, you should be able to dial in the flavor you are looking for.

Looks like a great driver by the way!

JohnH12 · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 Feb 2017, 01:07 am »

Assuming you are on something like a 12 inch baffle you could do it without boost. It does put the tweeter x-o near 1,300.

jimbones · « **Reply #5 on:** 15 Feb 2017, 02:29 am »

I plan to use a GR Research dual 12 H Frame and for the tweeter the Satori29. But I was hoping to XO at 2khz. I think I see why you say 1300hz, is it because the first dipole null at 1338hz? That means I have to make it a 3 way damn.

Chicken Man · « **Reply #6 on:** 15 Feb 2017, 03:51 am »

I use the Satori MW16P-8 with the SB29RDC-C000-4 tweeter on a trapezoidal baffle with a Faital PRO 15PR400 15" woofer below.
The Satori MW16P-8 is absolutely the best midrange I have ever heard in an OB design, which is significantly better than the same in a box. It may be expensive but is beautifully clean and full of detail if you implement it well in the crossover.
Remember baffle shape and size significatly shapes the frequency response of the driver so measurements can steer you in the right direction if you have the gear or extended listening and tweaking if you have the patience.

C.M

jimbones · « **Reply #7 on:** 15 Feb 2017, 01:35 pm »

Quote from: Chicken Man on 15 Feb 2017, 03:51 am

I use the Satori MW16P-8 with the SB29RDC-C000-4 tweeter on a trapezoidal baffle with a Faital PRO 15PR400 15" woofer below.
The Satori MW16P-8 is absolutely the best midrange I have ever heard in an OB design, which is significantly better than the same in a box. It may be expensive but is beautifully clean and full of detail if you implement it well in the crossover.
Remember baffle shape and size significatly shapes the frequency response of the driver so measurements can steer you in the right direction if you have the gear or extended listening and tweaking if you have the patience.

C.M

Thanks Chickenman, I am sold on the driver quality and have no problem paying up for it. It's still cheaper than ScanSpeak. I always use premium XO components unless I am prototyping then I test with less quality. I am guessing that I will have to balance baffle width against wing depth. I dont want it to honk!!

jimbones · « **Reply #8 on:** 15 Feb 2017, 01:36 pm »

John, Thats ABC Dipole you used right?

AJinFLA · « **Reply #9 on:** 15 Feb 2017, 02:40 pm »

Hi Jim, I'd suggest using free tools like ABC Dipole and http://www.tolvan.com/index.php?page=/edge/edge.php to sort out your baffle before you even begin cutting wood.

JohnR · « **Reply #10 on:** 15 Feb 2017, 02:49 pm »

Yes, please listen to AJ. It makes not a jot of difference how fantastic the driver is if you position that driver on a baffle in such a way that you create a hole in the response.

Or, build prototypes and measure them.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #11 on:** 15 Feb 2017, 03:26 pm »

The building of mules has always been a critical part of the development path for me.

I love the simulations and science, but the mdf (or whatever other affordable material you elect to try) implementation always drove it home for me.

jimbones · « **Reply #12 on:** 15 Feb 2017, 04:52 pm »

Quote from: AJinFLA on 15 Feb 2017, 02:40 pm

Hi Jim, I'd suggest using free tools like ABC Dipole and http://www.tolvan.com/index.php?page=/edge/edge.php to sort out your baffle before you even begin cutting wood.

Absolutely! I use ABC Dipole, SPL Trace and Win PCD and a host of other free programs which are quite good. I have a good method to do rapid prototyping which employs the use of this hard foam board from home depot that is an inch thick and I am able to slap together something quick. But its not permanent. But gives a certain level of confidence to proceed or not.

jimbones · « **Reply #13 on:** 15 Feb 2017, 04:54 pm »

I am wondering if I should use the 8 inch, 5 inch and 1 inch dome. I was hoping to keep it a 2 way (plus woofers)

JohnH12 · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 Feb 2017, 04:13 am »

I like the 6 inch OB. You might see if you could insulate the H frame and move your woofer x-o higher (ala cardioid) that would allow you to use a narrow baffle and raise the tweeter x-o. The RS28A plus a 6 inch OB mid is a winning combination.

Also if you a boosting your woofers low end then skip the h-frame and go flat baffle. Just a few thoughts

jimbones · « **Reply #15 on:** 16 Feb 2017, 02:37 pm »

Not boosting the woofers, also in the past I have used the RS28A and I didn't like them. I prefer the Satori.

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 Feb 2017, 10:49 pm »

I am surprised so few play with the 92 db B&G Neo 10. It is true it does not go as low on an open baffle making it tricky using a single one with Dannies servos........but the sound is so great and super easy integration with a single Neo 3PDR using a 12 db per octave xover at 3K. I let the Neo 10 run wide open on the bottom.....no problem with 100 db plus in my small room. If you were biamping then just use a smaller value coupling cap in your tube amp or add a tiny one on the input of your amp if you feel you need some protection. Damped and felted and open baffle B&Gs are killer. Here is a link to using them in a small line source:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=142235.0

AJinFLA · « **Reply #17 on:** 18 Feb 2017, 11:24 am »

Quote from: jimbones on 15 Feb 2017, 04:54 pm

I am wondering if I should use the 8 inch, 5 inch and 1 inch dome. I was hoping to keep it a 2 way (plus woofers)

Have you listened to the MW16P yet? Its one of the very few widerange drivers I might tolerate sans tweeter.

Of course a tweeter will add some air at the very top. If OB, I hope you mean a lot of 8s!

cheers,

AJ

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Feb 2017, 04:01 pm »

I'm sure the Satori is a fine driver but it doesn't seem well suited for OB.

Chicken Man · « **Reply #19 on:** 20 Feb 2017, 10:22 am »

If one makes the crossover frequency around 300 c/s there is no problem with the Satori's volume displacement at reasonable listening levels.
Below 300 c/s 2nd harmonic distortion begins to rise, 3rd harmonic distortion is still very low at this frequency.

This is the Satori MW16P-4 harmonic distortion tests at various SPL levels.

Keep in mind 95 db SPL is very loud in one's listening room and is likely to cause hearing problems (tinnitus) if sustained over long periods.

http://www.audioexcite.com/?page_id=3131

C.M