[EVOLVIST]

A SET (like the Zen) with no negative feedback will have a very low damping factor.  In the case of Omega speakers where the drivers are very light and need very little damping, a SET with it's low damping factor can produce a very nice bottom end without the need of a sub.  An amp with a high damping factor can lessen the bass output, but not to the point where the speakers will sound lean.  In listening to a variety of Omega speakers on anything from SETs to SS and almost everywhere in between, this has been my experience.

RE: damping factor. So, I've ordered the CAMs and my "amp" has a damping factor of 55 milli ohms (0.055 ohms) , and assuming I have low impedance cables, what should I expect out of the CAM?

[guf]

Oliver's work has always seemed great to me. I live 4 blocks from him. I really only use vintage power iron.  Output iron that has aged gets me. 

anyone have a link to Oliver's website or contact info?

[roscoe65]

I have his contact info, but don't feel comfortable giving it out.  He sells occasionally on USAudiomart as sonic_oli.  He has an add for an Altec 755 up there right now.

[EVOLVIST]

RE: damping factor. So, I've ordered the CAMs and my "amp" has a damping factor of 55 milli ohms (0.055 ohms) , and assuming I have low impedance cables, what should I expect out of the CAM?

A difficult question, huh? Generalities will suffice. 

[sabocat]

Something to note is that I've found my CAMs to need much less boundary reinforcement than the 3xrs. The CAMs have more midbass and bass, which is of course due mostly to the larger driver. This is just my personal experience. I've read where others were satisfied with the midbass / bass of the 3xrs when used with amps like the Decware Zen. I'm a Pass Labs / First Watt owner, though I'm keen to try the Decware some day. Point is, there are many things to consider with amp / speaker pairing. Overall, I think the CAMs are probably the most versatile stand-alone speaker Omega offers, based on size, midbass/bass production, ease of placement, simplicity, and tonal balance. Note I haven't heard the dual RS5 based speakers, but their lower impedance could MAYBE present a little bit of trouble for amps like the Decware. It depends. So, this is something that adds to my assessment that the CAMs are probably the most versatile overall. Again, Louis is the man. He won't steer you wrong and enjoys talking to his customers.

I had an extensive discussion with Louis on the issue of impedance before buying the Omega HO 3-1.5 speakers, which are rated around 6 ohms. My JWN 6V6 amp only has taps for 8. Louis said it would not be a problem. I agree. Not really a problem at all.

[roscoe65]

I had an extensive discussion with Louis on the issue of impedance before buying the Omega HO 3-1.5 speakers, which are rated around 6 ohms. My JWN 6V6 amp only has taps for 8. Louis said it would not be a problem. I agree. Not really a problem at all.

Impedance matching of output transformers to speakers is not really that much of a big deal.  Typically, any tap will be compatible with any impedance speaker, but it may not be optimal.  Usually, all things being equal, using an 8 ohm tap with speaker of 8 ohms or more will allow for better bass reproduction. 

However, some designers feel that using the whole transformer secondary is superior to using tapped transformers.  Steve Deckert uses a single 6 ohm secondary, feeling that that impedance is typical of the real world impedance of most "8 ohm" speakers.  Dennis Had doesn't state the output impedance of his Inspire Firebottle amps, but an amp rated at 12wpc will produce 10wpc into 2ohms.  It would appear that there is a lot of wiggle room in matching speakers to a well-designed tube amp.

Of particular note are amps such as the Firebottle that can use a variety of output tubes.  These different tube types have a typical design primary impedance, but that differs from tube to tube (e.g., an EL34 might be 3,400 ohms while a EL84 might be 8,000 phms).  Being able to swap tube types strongly indicates a great flexibility of operating points for the output tubes.  At the same time, if we mismatch speakers to the output transformer tap, we will change the reflected impedance at the transformer's primary.

In short, I don't think that there is much to worry about with any of Louis' speakers used on the 8 ohm tap of any quality tube amp, but some of the HO models (specifically the RS7 models) may be happier with a 4 ohm tap.

As fare as Damping Factor with a SS amp, virtually all solid state amps will have a very high damping factor when used with Omega speakers.  It doesn't occur to me to be something I would concern myself with.

[EVOLVIST]

Do you guys think with the CAMs, or any other Omega speaker, that you'll really get 20kHz at the top as specified?

[roscoe65]

You'll get 20khz, but it may be down a few dB.  That is not necessarily a bad thing.  Normal adult hearing rarely exceeds 16khz, nor is there a great deal of musical information up that high.  Additionally, the Fletcher-Munson effect means that rolled off highs and lows actually give a greater impression of soundstage depth.  If you actually need that top half octave you can alway add on a supertweeter, possibly placed off axis for greater dispersion.

[EVOLVIST]

You'll get 20khz, but it may be down a few dB.  That is not necessarily a bad thing.  Normal adult hearing rarely exceeds 16khz, nor is there a great deal of musical information up that high.  Additionally, the Fletcher-Munson effect means that rolled off highs and lows actually give a greater impression of soundstage depth.  If you actually need that top half octave you can alway add on a supertweeter, possibly placed off axis for greater dispersion.

Thank you. Yeah, I mean, I'm lucky if I can hear 16kHz, in a home test, but really, at age 43 (not sure how much age has to do with it),  but my hearing is more comfortable right at 14-15kHz. So, really the question is more academic than anything.

If anything I could see myself adding a sub, but that's more speculation at this point because I don't have my CAMs yet. I'm only going by what CAM owners have said.

Really, I'm curious about what some of the floorstanding alnicos, either single driver or 1.5 would have over the CAMs, if anything at all, if I add a sub to the mix.

I certainly want the best that I can get for everything from metal to classical. Am I asking too much from the Omegas?

[roscoe65]

You may be asking too much from the CAM's if you want Metal to Classical at satisfying levels in a larger space.  Near field with some boundary reinforcement may be a different story.  There are also the SAM's, which I own.  They are significantly bigger than the CAM's and have the potential for better bass performance.  Alternatively, you may find your musical tastes better served by the Super 3 HO Monitor, which has the same driver surface area of the CAM but IMO a better top end.

Back to our perception of high frequencies:  I'm 52 and my HF hearing is not as great as it once was.  But our ears are not our only sense organs - the skin also contributes to our perception of sound, which is one reason why supertweeters and very low frequency subwoofers contribute to musical enjoyment.

[EVOLVIST]

You may be asking too much from the CAM's if you want Metal to Classical at satisfying levels in a larger space.  Near field with some boundary reinforcement may be a different story.  There are also the SAM's, which I own.  They are significantly bigger than the CAM's and have the potential for better bass performance.  Alternatively, you may find your musical tastes better served by the Super 3 HO Monitor, which has the same driver surface area of the CAM but IMO a better top end.

Yeah, hmmmm... I hope I didn't make a bad choice by choosing the CAMs. On the other hand, my listening will be in a pretty small room. I'm thinking I'm going to be no more than 6ft away from them.

Well, I guess it's all pretty moot until I try them out. I hope they're coming soon. Tomorrow will start the 4th weeks since I've ordered them. It should be fun, I think. (I hope)

[RDavidson]

I highly doubt you made a bad choice. Like anything else in life, there's really no way to know what your preferences are without giving different things a try. Unfortunately, this hobby can be expensive and difficult to try a lot of different things in order to dial-in the "nuances" of your preferences. Maybe you like chocolate. Is there a certain brand? What type of chocolate? Dark? How dark? From what country or region? And so it goes. Know what I mean? I've been in this hobby for around 20 years, maybe longer. I've tried LOTS of gear. CAMs are in my music system and will remain there for the foreseeable future. However, I'm very fond of the RS5 based speakers and will probably buy a pair of HO 3's at some point too. It boils down to those nuances, which can entirely depend on your mood (or type of music you want to listen to and how you want it presented to you at any given moment). Just because 70% dark chocolate from Sweden is your favorite, doesn't mean that you don't find 60% dark chocolate from Mexico also good or maybe even preferable on occasion. I think you'll be happy with the CAMs especially nearfield. They're very flexible, refined, resolving, and really don't misstep.

[EVOLVIST]

I highly doubt you made a bad choice. Like anything else in life, there's really no way to know what your preferences are without giving different things a try. Unfortunately, this hobby can be expensive and difficult to try a lot of different things in order to dial-in the "nuances" of your preferences. Maybe you like chocolate. Is there a certain brand? What type of chocolate? Dark? How dark? From what country or region? And so it goes. Know what I mean? I've been in this hobby for around 20 years, maybe longer. I've tried LOTS of gear. CAMs are in my music system and will remain there for the foreseeable future. However, I'm very fond of the RS5 based speakers and will probably buy a pair of HO 3's at some point too. It boils down to those nuances, which can entirely depend on your mood (or type of music you want to listen to and how you want it presented to you at any given moment). Just because 70% dark chocolate from Sweden is your favorite, doesn't mean that you don't find 60% dark chocolate from Mexico also good or maybe even preferable on occasion. I think you'll be happy with the CAMs especially nearfield. They're very flexible, refined, resolving, and really don't misstep.

Yeah, I can dig it. I'm still itching for my CAMs. I sure hope they do the trick. I posted that my listening ranges from Metal to Classical, which is true, but probably the most prevalent music I listen to is somewhere in the middle, e. g. Beatles, Prince, Stevie Wonder, Tom Petty, Springsteen, Neil Young, Jimi Hendrix, The Kinks, Yes and various other prog rock. Oh, and Elvis and Sinatra.

Actually, as far as classical goes, I'm more into chamber music sonatas, wind ensembles, as opposed to huge Mahler type pieces. Light Debbusy, too. I love the blues and small jazz groups, as well.

Metal? Oh, a little Metallica and Slayer now and again. Maybe some older school hip hop like the Beastie Boys and A Tribe Called Quest.

So, I don't know. Canada Rob posted some blurbs on the sound of the various models,  which is a good guide, but you can tell it's not the whole picture.

I think I had posted before that I plan on buying a JL F110 sub for this rig. I simply wonder if I should have ordered the SAMs, or would SAMs matter at 3 to 6ft away? I've only got about 5 WPC to play with, so from what I understand that should be fine.

[RDavidson]

The nice thing about adding a sub is that you can dial-in the bass to suit your needs. The CAMs certainly reach low enough that blending with a sub should be no problem. A JL Fathom would be an excellent compliment.

The SAMs, I'm sure, reach lower than the CAMs and likely fill a larger space a better (both physically and in terms of sound). However, as you stated, listening nearfield would likely negate a fair amount of the bass advantage the SAMs have over the CAMs. As you know, to make more bass you also have to get the cones moving more. To get the cones moving more might mean turning the volume up higher than is comfortable nearfield. Long story short...that is what lead me to sell my KEF LS50's (and others before them) and I've been enjoying the single driver / high efficiency route ever since.

Note, I listen to a bit of everything too (but mostly ambient, small ensemble jazz, and indie hip-hop) and the CAMs don't disappoint. I don't enjoy listening too loud. When I listen, I like to listen, not be thrashed by the music. The nice thing about Omegas is that they give up the goods without the need to play loud. I LOVE that.

[EVOLVIST]

Nice. Yeah, I don't need a whole lot of volume either. I mean, sometimes you certainly want to jam, but feeling the music doesn't always equate to loudness. But what is "loud?" 95db at 6ft might be too damn loud, anyway, even at the most jammin' of times.

But yeah, anyway, I'm dealing in the realm of hypotheticals at the moment. Yay for the sub. I'm Impatient. Monday will be a month since ordering. 

[FireGuy]

Nice. Yeah, I don't need a whole lot of volume either. I mean, sometimes you certainly want to jam, but feeling the music doesn't always equate to loudness. But what is "loud?" 95db at 6ft might be too damn loud, anyway, even at the most jammin' of times.

But yeah, anyway, I'm dealing in the realm of hypotheticals at the moment. Yay for the sub. I'm Impatient. Monday will be a month since ordering. 

I so agree.  My high volume days are over too.  You don't need ear-bleeding levels to experience the viscerality of good music.  Omegas excell at this.   

[mcgsxr]

I am consistently surprised at how much louder many other people listen.

I had a guy over to the house this weekend.  He had it up around 95dB for a while.  And then started to try to yell over it.

I am usually in the 75-80dB range and sometimes way less.  Even in my isolated and soundproofed listening room.

[seikosha]

I am consistently surprised at how much louder many other people listen.

I had a guy over to the house this weekend.  He had it up around 95dB for a while.  And then started to try to yell over it.

I am usually in the 75-80dB range and sometimes way less.  Even in my isolated and soundproofed listening room.

I agree completely.  It's insane to me how loud some folks like to listen.

[opnly bafld]

I agree completely.  It's insane to me how loud some folks like to listen.

"What?"

80-85 for me.

[EVOLVIST]

Well, I only have 5.6 WPC @8ohms to play with, max, so whatever that works out to in dbs would be the loudest I could go. I don't imagine that would drive the CAMs to their maximum, or maybe it would; I don't know. At any rate, I'm more concerned with being able to drive the CAMs to the point where I get their full dynamic benefits, SPL be damned. I hope I'm on the right track.