[OzarkTom]

Roy modded TNT amp on Ebay for $1250.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/172421602738?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Those amps were built like tanks and sounded nice. I would love to hear Roy's updated version. Roy also now has a bridging mod for the 200's if you want monos.

There is a 10" velodyne sub here for $145. Just scroll down.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1742722662620198/2133473816878412/?notif_t=group_activity&notif_id=1480713747895720

[audiobasic2000]

Thanks for the additional pics, Hiphile.   

Thanks for the heads up on a TNT200 worked on by Roy Esposito, OzarkTom. (Don't have the funds to pony up for it, especially in US dollars! Will just have to settle for what I have.)     By the way, have read about your comments servo(?)/direct drive amps pushing you Acoustat X(s?) as being to defacto for Acoustats.   

Sincerely,
Kingsley.

[Hiphile]

Kingsley, probably they won't work for you I took these pictures while replacing the fuse for some "fancy" ones, still wondering if they make a significant difference. I'll be moving early this year I can take close up pictures of the boards when I disconnect it  so you can have a better look at the replaced components. I want to keep it constantly on. This thing still in the burn in process I been told that it needs close to 400 hrs?? I'm very please, it keeps improving sonicwise!

[rikirk]

It will be always a compromise. The goal is to find the one that let you smile and enjoy the Music. No worries, even then, you will be looking for something else anyway, because it's human nature. If you are happy where you are you will resist, eventually.

Two years ago, I almost pulled the trigger with emerald physics because of the PRAT factor. I warmly recommend an audition as an experiment in that direction.

Before the .7 where out, Mr. Wendell, in consideration of electronics and room constraint, stirred me away from downsizing, because they are different panels, they require less power, at the end, they have less potential. Instead, I upgraded adding the "i" and I know 3.7i will be the next and final (‽) step soon after a very long journey.

And before committing in adding anything into the room in the shape of a woofer, I spent months (in a two year time) in measuring and listening sessions, ending up in two sweet spots, one for casual listening still far enough from the front wall with movie theater alike strong mid-low, but -20db flat after 16KHz, and another where, well ... that's the one where I enjoy listening to the Music (being Peter Gabriel my favorite exception to much older composers as a point of reference).

My good friend, a local very well respected speaker builder (who also modded plenty of magnepan) and REL retailer, had to agree with me while loosing a sale.

A deep knowledge of how your room sounds, before tweaking and playing with our toys is the best advice I have, no matter the design of the transducer or the quality of the signal it's getting in there.

Every time I modify the chain I start from there.

Good luck with your quest,

Riccardo 


P.S. If you still have the .7 try raise them on a 2" hardwood base with 3 still points-like. I owe the lesson to this gentleman http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/monitoring.htm

[mr_bill]

Hiphile - I sent you a PM.

[audiobasic2000]

Good Afternoon, Hiphile:

   Funny you should mention the fuse aspect. I had listen to the amp for a while prior to removing the top to vacuum & clean it a bit...when done, I swapped out the fuses on the boards (I don't think I swapped the ones on the power supply) with some new ones (Holly brand)...there was a definite change for the better. (Can't say it was huge, just noticeable.)  Good thing you can keep it on and yes it does help and the sonics will opened up. This process took time but what was good but became better overall. I, however would like to keep mine on but am concerned about the the electricity bill (which seems to be slowly creeping up even though we've tried to limit our electricity usage...that's government clawing more and more from us. ) Thankfully, the warm up time is not that bad to enjoy the music that comes from it. Thanks for offering to take closer pictures, of course, at your convenience.   

Sincerely,
Kingsley.

[MGbert]

I'm about to give up on my recently bought Maggies .7 this is a tough decision because I just love how these things sound with 75% of my music collection. The issue is not with the low end per se, acoustic bass sound magnificent. My problem is what the British call PRAT factor, drive and dynamics in the lower frequencies are a turn off when I listen to old Rock music Yes, Genesis et al. I'm seriously considering the Eminent Technology LFT-8b but will appreciate some comments from people with previous experience with this speaker. Can consider a subwoofer if and only if they can completely solve the problem with the low frq's. dynamics, which I doubt. This seems to be an inherent shortcoming of the design. I will like the sub to be my last option, don't like the idea of the extra cost involved,  an extra power cord, extra cables, is annoying having an extra box in the floor, and tweeking all over again the speaker's placement.
Thanks for your patience and advice

Back to the original question - the lack of PRAT in a Maggie, particularly in the bass, sounds to me like the speaker is too close to the wall!  How far out in the room are they?  The attack of Rickenbacker bass (a la Yes and non-bass pedal Genesis) should sound wonderful, so something is definitely up.  Although pulling them out further into the room may compromise low bass extension a bit, I'd try that before giving up on them.  If that fixes the problem, and WAF is a factor, they can be pushed back when not in use for serious listening...

MGbert

[smargo]

I'm about to give up on my recently bought Maggies .7 this is a tough decision because I just love how these things sound with 75% of my music collection. The issue is not with the low end per se, acoustic bass sound magnificent. My problem is what the British call PRAT factor, drive and dynamics in the lower frequencies are a turn off when I listen to old Rock music Yes, Genesis et al. I'm seriously considering the Eminent Technology LFT-8b but will appreciate some comments from people with previous experience with this speaker. Can consider a subwoofer if and only if they can completely solve the problem with the low frq's. dynamics, which I doubt. This seems to be an inherent shortcoming of the design. I will like the sub to be my last option, don't like the idea of the extra cost involved,  an extra power cord, extra cables, is annoying having an extra box in the floor, and tweeking all over again the speaker's placement.
Thanks for your patience and advice

I know this answer might be unpopular - but i think the amp provides the prat factor - not the speakers - If all these posts are telling me that the speaker is the culprit - then for 25 years i have been thinking the issue of prat around amplifiers is all wrong

[Early B.]

I know this answer might be unpopular - but i think the amp provides the prat factor - not the speakers - If all these posts are telling me that the speaker is the culprit - then for 25 years i have been thinking the issue of prat around amplifiers is all wrong

It's not that simple.A change in an interconnect, for instance, can significantly affect PRAT. PRAT is another nebulous audiophile term for "synergy." When everything locks in, then you'll have your PRAT.

[Hiphile]

Back to the original question - the lack of PRAT in a Maggie, particularly in the bass, sounds to me like the speaker is too close to the wall!  How far out in the room are they?  The attack of Rickenbacker bass (a la Yes and non-bass pedal Genesis) should sound wonderful, so something is definitely up.  Although pulling them out further into the room may compromise low bass extension a bit, I'd try that before giving up on them.  If that fixes the problem, and WAF is a factor, they can be pushed back when not in use for serious listening...

MGbert

The speakers are temporarily placed at 45" outer edges and 43" inner edges from the back wall with tweeters in the inside. Don't get me wrong the bass is really good in most instances, upright acoustic bass is outstanding Dave Holland is right here in the room, is just a perceived lack of drive and dynamics in some rock music kit drum, electric bass, some low frequency from synthesizers. Things have got better with more hours under the belt in the amp. (close to 200) I thought the amp was mostly done with the burn in process at 150 hr, not the case. I don't want to start an argument here but an audiophile friend, told me that Klaus Bunge mentioned something in the 400hr. neighborhood. I'm planning on getting two 8" acoustic suspension sub as suggested here

I know this answer might be unpopular - but i think the amp provides the prat factor - not the speakers - If all these posts are telling me that the speaker is the culprit - then for 25 years i have been thinking the issue of prat around amplifiers is all wrong

I think is a combination of both properly working together, like a good marriage, easier said than done. I'm sure the amp. is not lacking prowess in driving the speakers, at a slew rate of 165/us and damping factor of 1000 if this things don't have good control over the .7 I don't know what will! As I mention earlier the problem is one of perception I'm coming from acoustic's suspension type of speakers and is unfair to expect the same degree of bass quality(not quantity) in planars or mostly any other kind of speakers for that matter. Does anyone remember the Hales Transcendence 8 or T5 ?

[SteveFord]

"a perceived lack of drive and dynamics in some rock music kit drum, electric bass, some low frequency from synthesizers"

It's a matter of panel size.  The .7s are small speakers (for a panel) and don't have the surface area on the bass portion to dig way down.
Play the same music on a pair of 20.7s and see how the bass does.
For the smaller Maggies you'll need to augment the bass with a subwoofer or two for that type of music which it looks like you're doing.

[slinco]

My .7's absolutely needed a subwoofer . After much research I went with the Swarm from AudioKinesis. Long story short, the sub system and the .7's seem like they were made for each other. The bass is so clean and so "fast" (hate that term, but it fits), and so darn smooth because of the multi sub approach. The sound is spectacular, with plenty of oomph and PRAT for rock and other "power music".

WAF if very good, too. The subs are designed to be close to the wall, with their drivers facing the wall so you don't see them. They're not big boxes, and they look like nice pieces of furniture, perfect to put something on. I've found that placement is not critical at all. I put them where I had spaces for them and they sound fantastic. The wiring is minimal. As for the .7's, they are so light I push them back near the wall, either side of the TV when I'm not listening critically, and use them for TV sound. A little felt on the bottom of the feet protects the wood floor. Pulling them out for a music listening session is a piece of cake.

So that's my experience. .7's and subs are a great match, as long as the sub system is a good one. I'd be wary of a single box solution. I can't stand bass nodes!

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Here is an excellent review of using the new Pass Labs Int-60 amp with Magnepan 0.7's.   Just thought I would throw it out there to show what the Maggies can do with a stellar amp at only 60wpc, 30 wpc in Class A

http://www.stereophile.com/content/pass-laboratories-int-60-integrated-amplifier#4JdKPy23Ofq5MEc6.97

Amps do make a huge difference with Maggies.  Going from a Parasound A21 to my Pass X250 amp really made the Maggies shine.  Adding a BAT VZK-51se preamp with its powerful bass took dynamics and bass to another level.

With that being said, adding subwoofers to the mix gave me that lower bass and room pressurization that was missing.