Acoustic Suspension Recommendation

Funnehaha · « **on:** 17 Sep 2016, 05:21 pm »

Hi,

I'm trying to replace a pair of Yamaha NS-10M Studios with a similar two-way acoustic suspension-type speaker pair. The lucky couple will be placed on the tops of two identical bookcases close to corners of the room near the walls flanking a large archway, about six feet up. They should be about the same size as the NS-10Ms.
The current speakers are driven by a medium power Arcam integrated.

There are cats, but they can't jump that high. >smile<

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #1 on:** 17 Sep 2016, 05:31 pm »

Ac suspension monitors are rare, I remember Opéra(from Italy) had some ac. speakers in the 1990s, if you want google.

Carl V · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 Sep 2016, 08:55 pm »

Acoustic Suspension = sealed box
as opposed to bass Reflex(ported or vented or PR).

You should be able to find many sealed box designs.

JLM · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 Sep 2016, 09:06 pm »

Or a front vented bass reflex speaker.

WGH · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 Sep 2016, 09:45 pm »

Jim Salk of Salk Sound would be able to make an acoustic suspension speaker. A single woofer version of the Veracity HT2C would would exceed your expectations (hey look, it even has a white cone). The only problem with the HT2C is that it will not have the same sound as the NS-10. The NS-10 has a +5 dB boost in the midrange (around 2 kHz) and the bottom end starts rolling off at 200 Hz. The HT2C has the preferred flat response from 45 Hz to 20,000 Hz.

Even the ported Salk speakers don't sound ported like you are probably used to, all models have tight, fast bass with no bass overhang.
Do yourself a favor and give Jim a call.

http://www.salksound.com/model.php?model=Veracity+HT2C

srb · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Sep 2016, 10:02 pm »

Quote from: Carl V on 17 Sep 2016, 08:55 pm

You should be able to find many sealed box designs.

I couldn't really locate any current model assembled speakers that met all the specs of the NS-10M Studio: sealed with ~ 7" woofer, dome tweeter, ~ 90dB sensitivity and close to the 15"W x 8-1/2"H x 7-7/8"D dimensions.

Any I did find had smaller 5" - 6" woofers and lowish 85dB - 86dB sensitivity.

Also, I'm not sure how important it is to be designed from the ground up for horizontal placement like the NS-10M Studio as far as baffle step, etc., but being placed high up atop bookshelves near the ceiling and corners probably negates any design considerations in that area anyway.

Steve

dB Cooper · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Sep 2016, 11:21 pm »

NHT makes some acoustic suspension monitors but haven't looked at their website to see if they meet your other criteria.

Generally, sensitivity is the first ting to go out the window when you try to get deep bass out of a small sealed box. From the list of bass extension, small cabinet size, and high sensitivity, you get to choose which two you want. Going by WGH's earlier post, Yamaha picked the last two.

Maybe mini-or-micromonitors with a small downfiring (read: catproof) powered sub would work for you?

Carl V · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 Sep 2016, 12:22 am »

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=144539.0

Russell Dawkins is selling an excellent pair of Powered
Studio Monitors. these would seem to meet all your needs.
8" woofer, 3" dome Mid-range& Tweeter. Sealed Acoustic suspension.
Powered with active XO.

JLM · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 Sep 2016, 12:31 am »

Hey guys, the NS-10's weren't expensive speakers. Replacements would have to be dialed way down from K + H o300's or Salk HT1.

WGH · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Sep 2016, 12:51 am »

Quote from: JLM on 18 Sep 2016, 12:31 am

Hey guys, the NS-10's weren't expensive speakers. Replacements would have to be dialed way down from K + H o300's or Salk HT1.

Yea, we all know that based on the fact OP is using a medium power Arcam integrated but I would rather recommend Salk than start out suggesting an Elac B6 for $280 and sticking a sock in the port.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Sep 2016, 11:34 am »

Quote from: Carl V on 17 Sep 2016, 08:55 pm

Acoustic Suspension = sealed box
as opposed to bass Reflex(ported or vented or PR).

You should be able to find many sealed box designs.

Some sealed boxes are not ac suspension but infinite baffle.
Ac suspension refer to the cone suspension in air pressure.

dB Cooper · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Sep 2016, 01:26 pm »

While it is true that not all sealed boxes are acoustic suspension, all acoustic suspension speakers are sealed boxes, which is the point Carl V was making.

Both approaches seem to have largely fallen out of favor in recent years- acoustic suspension because of advances in drivers and cabinet loading technique which make it possible to avoid the 'one-note' bass which was the trademark of many older bass reflex designs while preserving the sensitivity advantages, and because ports seem to have become something of a 'selling point' (I have seen computer speakers with 1" deep 'reflex' tubes... Useless.) Infinite baffle speakers fell out of favor at least partially because they are usually fairly large (the Bozak Concert Grand is the size of a refrigerator). If you find a sealed box that's 15" x 8-1/2" x7-7/8" (such as the Yamahas mentioned earlier), you can be pretty sure it's not an infinite baffle design.

Funnehaha · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 Sep 2016, 03:20 pm »

Well.....

It seems that people here love to debate what I meant by an acoustic suspension-closed box speaker even though I specifically mentioned that I was trying to replace Yamaha NS-10M Studios. No matter, one recommendation that has made sense so far is the NHT two-ways. Any others?

I know this may be totally old-fashioned to some, but I intend to listen to any speakers that I consider before purchasing. I have a small collection of CDs and LPs that I haul around when I'm speaker-shopping. These are either recordings that I've done or that I'm acquainted with very well, so that I can tell if the speakers are "skewed" in their response in any way.

WGH · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Sep 2016, 03:34 pm »

There are plenty of Yamaha NS-10M Studios on eBay.

srb · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Sep 2016, 04:22 pm »

Quote from: Funnehaha on 18 Sep 2016, 03:20 pm

No matter, one recommendation that has made sense so far is the NHT two-ways. Any others?

Although I had seen the NHT, I didn't recommend them due to their smaller woofer and decreased sensitivity, effectively reducing your amplifier output by more than half.

Steve

yeldarb · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Sep 2016, 06:33 pm »

You might look at Emotiva's new non-powered speakers.

Funnehaha · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 Sep 2016, 01:17 am »

Thanks for the Emotiva recommendation. I took a look, and they don't do acoustic suspension as far as I can tell, and navigating their site makes my brain hurt. I'm kinda surprised nobody has recommended "classic" speakers such as AR-2s or AR-2As, Advents of various sorts, or ADS. Ah well.

Nobody makes small acoustic suspension monitors anymore? Every body loves bass reflex-type speakers that much? Wow.....

srb · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 Sep 2016, 01:53 am »

Quote from: Funnehaha on 19 Sep 2016, 01:17 am

I'm kinda surprised nobody has recommended "classic" speakers such as AR-2s or AR-2As, Advents of various sorts, or ADS. Ah well.

Didn't really know if you were looking for used vintage speakers or not. I have a pair of what I think was one of the better sealed vintage boxes that was produced - the KEF C60 (1985-1988).

They have an 8" cast frame woofer and T33 dome tweeter / crossover from the KEF Reference Series, and are specced at 89dB, 4 Ohm, F3 of 66Hz and 110dB max output.

They are larger than the NS-10M Studio - 18.5"H x 9.8"W x 12.3"D - and are constructed with 22mm MDF and weigh 26.4lbs.

Because the tweeters were ferrofluid filled, they may require ferrofluid replacement, but I was lucky enough to acquire an absolutely mint pair that doesn't appear to need servicing.

Steve

JCarney · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 Sep 2016, 02:28 am »

The Spendor D-1 is a sealed design. ATC also has small sealed designs, as well as Harbeth. I found this thread that I got the three I just regurgitated.
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/who-today-makes-sealed-box-speakers.81619/

Good luck with your search,
JCarney

JLM · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 Sep 2016, 02:58 am »

E. J. Jordan offers a new 4 inch extended range driver, the Eikona, that can be properly fitted into a small sealed cabinet. As I recall a British company offers it for less than your budget.

But it's also available in a slightly larger ported design where F3 moves (again as I recall) from 90 Hz to 50 Hz. Which explains why sealed designs are less popular.