[THROWBACK]

I am using the Herbies Way Excellent II mat on top of the stock plastic upper surface of my Trans Rotor Rondino turntable, and that made a noticeable improvement. Now I'm wondering about clamps. Several VPI owners I know recommend against using any clamp at all with the VPIs. OTOH, there are some after-market offerings of clamps in the thousands of dollars.

In the October Stereophile, Robert Deutsch - - who uses the Herbie's mat also - - recommends a TT weight (not a clamp) from Harmonic Resolution Systems at a hefty $440 (for the heavier one). (He also recommends the PHT "micro transducer.")

Any experience out there with either one of these gadgets? 

[S Clark]

I have both clamps and weights.  I only use them if the record is warped.
$400 for a piece of iron with a rubber base?  Stainless and "polymer" 
wow  I'll melt some wheel weights, drill a hole in the center, attach an large O ring with silicon, and let you have it for only $350 $325... don't want to get greedy. 

[sturgus]

I have none of the ones you mention, but use the VPI Delrin clamp. It works very well, much better sound with than without.
I would like to try a Black Diamond Racing clamp, or Stillpoints if I could afford it.
Sturgus

[audio.bill]

Just a point to keep in mind regarding VPI tables and use of their clamp. The recommended setup of VPI tables includes putting a rubber washer over the spindle which sits below the record. It elevates the center of the record so that their clamp can most effectively couple the record to the platter. If you prefer not to use their clamp with such a VPI table you should operate it without the rubber washer in place or the record will be free to wobble on the platter.

[Delacroix]

I used an HRS weight for several years to good effect. I liked the feel and quality. I'd happily use it over various others I've tried, including solid TTWeights, screw down VPIs etc. Sonically, I find that clamps and weights don't really make a huge difference in my rig, it's more subtle and table-dependent, but with the HRS, I always thought I could hear a difference between using and not, and I invariably preferred the music when it was used. At the risk of irritating those who want measured pronouncements of differences, I'd say the HRS made the music seem a little more present and resolved, with slightly tighter bass, but I realize that the sheer muscle memory of putting it on and being able to see it when I listened could certainly influence my auditory perception.

If you can, buy from a dealer who will let you return it.  And as with all things hifi, $440 for a clamp is not even close to the price of the most expensive options from some -- the Durand 'The Weight' costs $3500 I believe and some people apparently love it. The Stillpoints weight also has lots of supporters but I've never heard one in use on a table I own or know. Hearing is the only way to know for sure what works in your set-up.

[ACHiPo]

I am using the Herbies Way Excellent II mat on top of the stock plastic upper surface of my Trans Rotor Rondino turntable, and that made a noticeable improvement. Now I'm wondering about clamps. Several VPI owners I know recommend against using any clamp at all with the VPIs. OTOH, there are some after-market offerings of clamps in the thousands of dollars.

In the October Stereophile, Robert Deutsch - - who uses the Herbie's mat also - - recommends a TT weight (not a clamp) from Harmonic Resolution Systems at a hefty $440 (for the heavier one). (He also recommends the PHT "micro transducer.")

Any experience out there with either one of these gadgets?

The HRS weight is on my list based on reviews and the fact that I want to add mass to my unsprung turntable.  May be snake oil--dunno, but still wanna try it.

[ACHiPo]

PS I'm still looking for an HRS used, but even at half price it's spendy!

[S Clark]

PS I'm still looking for an HRS used, but even at half price it's spendy!

This is a serious offer.  When you find one, weigh it, and I"ll make a diy one of the same mass and send it to you for comparison. 

[ACHiPo]

This is a serious offer.  When you find one, weigh it, and I"ll make a diy one of the same mass and send it to you for comparison.

Scott,
I'll definitely take you up on that.  In fact I took a fit and did some looking and found this on Ebay:
Aluminati SS record wieght
It is 1250g

The HRS is 900g

[S Clark]

Scott,
I'll definitely take you up on that.  In fact I took a fit and did some looking and found this on Ebay:
Aluminati SS record wieght
It is 1250g

The HRS is 900g

Now that's more in line with what a TT weight should run.  After all, it is a piece of steel, possibly with something like Herbie's dots attached. 

[THROWBACK]

The science (if there is any) seems to involve more than just mass. The Stillpoints device has several screwed-in gizmos, e.g. Are these any more effective than a hunk of steel with Herbie's dots? I have no idea. I already have the record weight supplied by Trans Rotor. Would an after-marked exotic be any better? No clue.

But I am amazed at how much difference tweaks close to the source make. In my system, changing the tonearm wire made a nice difference. Then, so did changing the RCA plugs at the end of the tonearm wire. The Herbie's mat made an improvement. So did putting a Gingko base under my turntable.

Wouldn't it be nice if someone out there could say with great authority: "Here's the one you want; it will make a 200% improvement in your system; and it costs only $1.49." 

"Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?"

[woodsyi]

I have used weights, clamps and nothing.  I got several weights of different shape and mass.  Their efficacy vary from record to record and table to table.  Heavy vinyl is less affected by clamps or weights.  Platter mats are same way.  Results vary on different tables -- especially different on suspended platter vs heavy platter.

But one thing that has made a difference across the board is a periphery ring.    I would save on a clamp/weight and put it toward getting a ring.

I am guessing that the more you keep your vinyl flat and inert from vibration the better.  Weight at the center may do that for heavy discs but make it worse with thin ones as you raise the edges, thereby increasing vibration.  It's not just inertness though.  Sorbo mat can grip a disc but I found some music just lose life on it.  Periphery ring gives more details without robbing life out of recordings. 

Anyway, I use center weight and periphery ring on had mats -- carbon fibre and gunmetal (on different tables).  That's where I am.

[ACHiPo]

I have used weights, clamps and nothing.  I got several weights of different shape and mass.  Their efficacy vary from record to record and table to table.  Heavy vinyl is less affected by clamps or weights.  Platter mats are same way.  Results vary on different tables -- especially different on suspended platter vs heavy platter.

But one thing that has made a difference across the board is a periphery ring.    I would save on a clamp/weight and put it toward getting a ring.

I am guessing that the more you keep your vinyl flat and inert from vibration the better.  Weight at the center may do that for heavy discs but make it worse with thin ones as you raise the edges, thereby increasing vibration.  It's not just inertness though.  Sorbo mat can grip a disc but I found some music just lose life on it.  Periphery ring gives more details without robbing life out of recordings. 

Anyway, I use center weight and periphery ring on had mats -- carbon fibre and gunmetal (on different tables).  That's where I am.

A periphery ring makes a lot of sense, both as a clamp and to add inertia.  Unfortunately it would be a disaster waiting to happen with the TransFi tonearm.

[S Clark]

This has definitely turned into an interesting discussion of accessories.  It's nice to hear from those that have experience with their own TT's.  I may have to start looking for a ring. I've several lp's that are hard to come by that have moderate to serious warps.  I had been thinking about flattening techniques, but a ring may be a better idea.  Do rings have any beneficial effects on normal lp's?
Can anyone else chime in with knowledge of tonearm wiring? 

[Johnny2Bad]

I think it's worth noting that when a reviewer recommends an audio product, that should not be read to mean he recommends it to the exclusivity to competing units, or recommends it unconditionally.

What it means, simply, is that it does the job it's intended to do under the prescribed circumstances. It most certainly does not mean it represents good value as far as cost/benefit goes.

It does not mean it's the best combination of price and performance, unless they say out loud it's the best combination of price and performance.

Reviewers nearly continuously say something along the lines of "you should try it with your specific system and components and decide if it's worth buying".

It is something that must always be kept in mind with audio products and audio reviews, since it seems so difficult for some to remember. It's also why I have no problem with a $400 record clamp, or a $3500 record clamp, being available in the market. Just because I have no intention of ever buying either doesn't mean I am not fine with someone selling one, and if he gets buyers, more power to him.

[BobRex]

This has definitely turned into an interesting discussion of accessories.  It's nice to hear from those that have experience with their own TT's.  I may have to start looking for a ring. I've several lp's that are hard to come by that have moderate to serious warps.  I had been thinking about flattening techniques, but a ring may be a better idea.  Do rings have any beneficial effects on normal lp's?
Can anyone else chime in with knowledge of tonearm wiring?

I'm using a TTWeights ring, and even with normal lps (both of them ) I feel it better couples the lp to the mat.  It definitely flattens out even the smallest warps.  BTW - I use it in conjunction with a TTWeights weight. 

Regarding wiring, I rewired my Alphason (non-MCS version) a couple of years ago and it did improve resolution.  Keep in mind that some tonearms have wire junctions inside the armtube (the Alphason did) and re-wiring eliminates those.  With the tiny signal, any less solder joints are better.

[ACHiPo]

I just ordered the Aluminati stainless weight.  It should arrive Tuesday, but unless I make a HUGE amount of progress this weekend, my turntable will not be done to test it out for a few weeks.

[BobM]

I've tried several on my VPI table but keep coming back to the one piece Delrin clamp. It just sounds better - and no mat.

[Syrah]

Is your comparison with or without a periphery ring?

[ACHiPo]

The Aluminati stainless weight showed up today--1.25kg of hunka hunka burnin' record weight: