Denon 3910 - VERY first impressions of stock unit...

modwright · « **on:** 9 Nov 2004, 03:58 am »

Okay, thanks to a customer good enough to send me a unit to evaluate and ultimatley modify, I had the chance tonight to listen briefly to the new Denon 3910 - stock - fresh out of the box.

With exactly 10 minutes of burn-in, at least that I am aware of, I have to say that I am pretty impressed. A summary of my impressions are as follows:

1) Okay, so I took a peak inside... Comparable to the Denon 2900 in terms of the power supply, drive and build quality. All fiberglass PCB's, decent weight chassis nice-looking face. It is relatively weighty and feels good.

2) Aestheticly, it is a bit slicker looking than the previous Denons in my opinion. Similar, but perhaps just a bit cleaner looking.

3) Functionally includes the video options of the 5900 and has what appears/sound to be an analog stage that is also of similar caliber.

4) Nice pair of heavy-duty RCA's for 2CH Audio duty, separate from the six 'stock' RCA's for MCH.

5) Lacks the dedicated linear/regulated audio power supply of the 5900. It only has a switched-mode supply like the 2900 for powering the entire unit. This does NOT seem to hinder the units sound like I feel it does in the 2900 however.

6) Sonics: VERY brief and first impressions. Surprisingly full and balanced top to bottom. Where I found the stock 2900 to be a bit thin sounding and emphasized the highs with mediocre bass, this unit just sounds good and pretty seamless from top to bottom. In other words, much better than I expect from a stock unit at this price.

Summing up:

I am impressed and will be looking further into it. First though, I have a few other mods to finish to get caught back up. I also want to investigate/research the subject of reliability with this machine. I have been hearing a few things early on that caused me some concern. Anyone with experience with this unit please feel free to chime in.

Thanks,

Dan W.

Jay S · « **Reply #1 on:** 9 Nov 2004, 03:24 pm »

Dan,

Thanks for posting the early impressions of the stock 3910! Sounds like it is well worth the extra $300-$400 over the 2900's now on closeout/b-stock since the video is better and the stock sound is better. Looking forward to hearing how the modded 3910 compares with the 2900 once you've cleared your plate a bit. But, clearly, the 3910 represents great progress for people who would not otherwise consider mods.

Regards,

- Jay

modwright · « **Reply #2 on:** 9 Nov 2004, 04:49 pm »

Yes, definitely a solid platform for mods I believe and quite good stock.

Dan W.

jgubman · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 Nov 2004, 05:29 pm »

I've owned it for about a month now and have had no reliability issues. It's played ever CD, SACD and DVD-V that I've thrown at it.

I haven't done much A/B'ing of it's analog-out redbook performance vs. using it as a transport into my EAD 7000 mk.3 DAC, but the few discs I've listened to (Atl. Symp. performing Beethoven's 9th, Telarc and the remastered Transformer by Lou Reed), I've preferred the Denon to the EAD. Seems to be more detailed and have stronger bass. -- I definately plan to investigate that first impression though...

Anyways, no reliability issues here. Much fewer problems that the problem-plagued Denon DVD-3800 that it is replacing.

I haven't seen too many people complaining about the reliability of the 3910 on the AVS Forum (very quick to pick up any and all flaws of Denon units there). What makes you think they have QA problems?

modwright · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 Nov 2004, 06:12 pm »

I really had just heard rumors of poor build quality and some reliability issues, largely in the video realm though I believe. I did search the AVSforum and also saw little in the way of problems, so I don't know where this is coming from.

I think the build quality is actually quite good. It is not quite as heavy as the 5900 and a few corners were cut there in the power supply and some chassis damping, etc., but they also cut the price considerably and included the video extras that made the 5900 desirable. All in all, I consider this unit to be quite the steal. Its audio performance - stock - is pretty remarkable - and if the video is as good as they say, then it serves the needs of MANY people.

It is good enough stock that I am going to actively pursue an entry level mod without tubes, as well as an all-out mod with our tube stage. I am pretty excited about the possibilities.

First things first though...getting caught up. Today is a HEAVY Denon mods day...a few people have been waiting patiently and I don't want to abuse that patience.

Thanks,

Dan

jgubman · « **Reply #5 on:** 9 Nov 2004, 07:43 pm »

Cool, let us know what you come up with. I agree, the unit is very good with audio and video in its stock form, hopefully you'll be able to find some easy wins in there.

I hear you're also working on a mod for the new Sony 2000ES 5-disc SACD changer? I'm very interested in that!

modwright · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 Nov 2004, 08:17 pm »

I am actually planning to offer a mod for the Sony 2000 units, but I haven't seen a unit to work on yet. If someone is willing to send us a unit, I will gladly do the work and the first customer will get 20% off retail price for the mod. I am expecting to offer a mod in the $300-$500 range that will be cost-effective and will represent excellent value.

Thanks,

Dan W.

modwright · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Nov 2004, 02:33 am »

Today I was doing a final on a Denon DV-A11 (220V version of 5900) that we have implemented our Universal Truth mods, with Bybee filters, clock upgrades and all options.

I did a brief comparison on SACD (2CH) between the modified A11 and the stock 3910. As you would expect of course, the A11 sounded better. But, I am pleasantly surprised to say that it didn't make the stock 3910 sond terrible though either.

The modified unit clearly had better separation, increased resolution, better 3-D imaging and a lower noise floor, but it did confirm my beliefs that the 3910 is an exceptional unit and well worth pursuing with modifications. More to follow on this unit.

We have also found a customer good enough to send us a Sony 2000 in the next week or so and we will be developing a great value mod for this unit.

Thanks,

Dan

modwright · « **Reply #8 on:** 6 Dec 2004, 04:27 am »

First level of mods complete on the 3910, incliding the following:

1) Power supply upgrades: rectifiers, caps.
2) Lid Damped.
3) Upgraded digital voltage regulation.
4) Bypassed ALL op-amps.
5) Passive I-V stage implemented.
6) Transoformer coupled output stage implemented.

With upgrades and bypass of all op-amps, sound is very clean and very detailed with incredible inner detail and realism. Still trying to decide how necessary a buffered output is.

Tube mods still in the works. There may be a SS output stage option in lieu of the tube stage.

Dan

abrahavt · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 Dec 2004, 06:55 pm »

Will you offer a tube option for those who would like a tube output stage instead of an SS output stage?

Once you have the tube mod done can you tell us how it compares to the SS mod ? (for the output stage)

Will the SS mod for the output stage be cheaper than the tube mod?

Quote from: modwright

First level of mods complete on the 3910, incliding the following:

1) Power supply upgrades: rectifiers, caps.
2) Lid Damped.
3) Upgraded digital voltage regulation.
4) Bypassed ALL op-amps.
5) Passive I-V stage implemented.
6) Transoformer coupled output stage implemented.

With upgrades and bypass of all op-amps, sound is very clean and very detailed with incredible inner detail and realism. Still trying to decide how necessary a buffered output is.

Tube mods still in the works. There may be a SS output stage option in lieu of the tube stage.

Dan

RoadTripper · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Dec 2004, 09:13 pm »

What brick and mortar stores carry the 3910? I called Tweeters and they said that you have to buy one for them to order it. i.e. they don't have them in stock.

I don't want to buy one just to get it in their store just to take it home for 30 days, all just to hear it.

RoadTripper · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Dec 2004, 09:16 pm »

Sorry for the double post. Don't know why the first one took so long to display.

What brick and mortar store carries the 3910? Tweeters says they don't and you have to buy it for them to order it.

mr_bill · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Dec 2004, 09:49 pm »

Dan,
With the preliminary success of the solid state output stage with transformer on the Denon 3910..........do you think this may be a possibility as an option for the Sony 999es? Might you get just as much of a detailed. clear sound from that unit also or do you have a 999es mod that already does that?
Thanks,
Bill (999es owner)

modwright · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Dec 2004, 09:51 pm »

Hi guys, first of all I do plan to offer a tube and SS buffer stage option and the SS option WILL be cheaper I expect.

I don't know which brick and mortor store carries these, but we will be offering new units with full mods.

I AM planning on offering a similar mod for the 999ES, with a SS output for those who are not tube fans. I expect it will be equally exceptional. The 999ES and Denon use different DACs and thus the mods are a bit different, but a very similar mod coudl be offered for the Sony without tubes.

Thanks,

Dan

abrahavt · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Dec 2004, 10:43 pm »

Dan:
Will the SS option have an external power supply with the umbilical chord?

Quote from: modwright

Hi guys, first of all I do plan to offer a tube and SS buffer stage option and the SS option WILL be cheaper I expect.

I don't know which brick and mortor store carries these, but we will be offering new units with full mods.

I AM planning on offering a similar mod for the 999ES, with a SS output for those who are not tube fans. I expect it will be equally exceptional. The 999ES and Denon use different DACs and thus the mods are a bit different, but a very similar mod coudl be offered for the Sony without tubes.

Thanks,

Dan

gitarretyp · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Dec 2004, 11:49 pm »

Seminarian,

I picked-up my 3910 from ultimate electronics. Their sticker price is essentially list, but i got them (reluctantly) to do a price match + 10% of the difference to another store. You can find local and internet dealers on the denon website.

mr_bill · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Dec 2004, 12:49 am »

Dan,
Count me in for a 999es SS output mod as I am not a tube fan, but would love to get the clarity, inner detail and resolution you're getting with the 3910!
(and I would like the lower cost too!)
Bill

modwright · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Dec 2004, 03:48 am »

The SS output stage will be cheaper and will NOT need an outboard supply. There will likely be a new supply buit inside the unit for the SS output buffer.

I will also pursue the transformer mod with the Sony and share my results.

Thanks,

Dan

lifewithmusic · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 Dec 2004, 09:44 am »

So, when all is said and done, which sounds better: the 3910 with all mods, or the Sony 999es with all of its mods?? And how do the prices compare? I think I'm going to need one of these . . .

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 Dec 2004, 10:33 am »

Crutchfield carries the 3910.

Cheers
Charlie