[srb]

The only problem that I have with the above [Furez pure copper BFA] would be that, you seem to be understimating the rate of oxidation of Copper. more like once every two weeks, a banana copper connector will be noticably oxidized in just a couple of days and you can see that in the change of color for the darker dull brown color from the original shiny metal.

I just saw that they do offer a silver-plated version but I'm not finding a gold-plated version.  But plated or unplated, $80 - $100 / set of 8 is still more than I really want to spend on banana plugs, although I admit that I did once spend ~ $50 on a set of German-made ViaBlue TS2 BFA.

I guess it's all relative - the Furutech FT-212 is > $400/8!  I occasionally overspend a bit, but ..... 

Steve

[won ton on]

I use spades on my Salk ht-2-tl's and bananas on my Bryston 4b sst2. The spades on the speakers because i can tighten them with a wrench,and bananas on the amp because i can't seem to get the post's tight enough on the 4b sst2's ( plastic post's )I have Cardas bananas that i can tighten with a pair of pliers to the cable's spade's.

[bacobits1]

BFA banana plugs here always.
Strong well fitting and easy to use.

[timind]

BFA banana plugs on amp end as they are easier to plug and unplug. I like to swap amps in and out occasionally. The problem with BFAs is they are basically a spring which loses tension over time. I keep a perfectly sized phillips screwdriver next to the amp which I insert inside the BFA plug to resize it. They are tight as new after one plunge of the screwdriver.

Gold plated copper spades on speaker ends.

[srb]

The problem with BFAs is they are basically a spring which loses tension over time.

Sounds like you might have Chinese manufactured BFAs (?), as I haven't found that to be a problem yet with my Swiss and German ones, at least over the last 6 to 9 years.

Steve

[bacobits1]

Correct. I got mine from Take 5 in Canada quite some time ago the Swiss BFA's never got loose.

[Mark Korda]

Hi, this might convince some.......As a plastic model painter I learned something about surfaces. A real good model builder when putting on decals will use a special setting solution or use Pledge, a clear liquid vinyl floor finish. Why? because if you look at the surface of paint under a microscope it looks more like sandpaper than the nice color you just slapped on. For modelers the liquid Pledge fills the little gaps. If you omit this step the decal will (silver),the small amount of air trapped underneath in those minute gaps makes the decal look crappy when it dries.
    Now think of 2 surfaces of Gold abutted against each other. The surface of a banana plug against the amps output jacks. Even though there is more surface area touching than a spade lug, thru a microscope it looks like 2 pieces of sand paper against each other. If you add pressure your going to eliminate more microscopic gaps and by doing that minimize oxidation. It's not soldering but it's a better step closer in my opinion. Remember too, gold is a soft metal.
    My high school chemistry teacher used to say;  Gentlemen, keep those connections clean, bright, and tight! He  was an older man, Navy, who only passed me because I talked about old time pro wrestlers like Strangler Lewis and Gus Sonnenburg, his time. .......Mark Korda

[whell]

Probably clean bare wire is the "purest" connection.  After that, it becomes a matter of preference as long as the connector is reasonably well constructed and solidly connected.

[DaveC113]

Probably clean bare wire is the "purest" connection. 

Sure, for the first few weeks... if you don't mind cleaning all the time and the inconvenience of it all as well... 

----------------

Mark Korda, good post, people ignore the quality of the contact and just look at surface area.

-------------------

Also, pure copper spades can be much less expensive vs any alloy banana and will sound better, check DH Labs gold plated spades... Extremely high quality UPOCC copper spades with great quality plating, set-screw connections (better than any solder joint) and are thick enough to not bend easily cost $140/8, the Furutech FP-201(G).

[srb]

I don't believe set screw connections are as good as solder and if the copper wire is not tinned or plated you are still susceptible to some corrosion.

Set screws work best with solid core wire, if using stranded wire you should use gold-plated copper crimped ferrules over the wire end such as those from WBT, ViaBlue and others made specifically for use with their set screw type connectors.

Steve

[DaveC113]

I don't believe set screw connections are as good as solder and if the copper wire is not tinned or plated you are still susceptible to some corrosion.

Set screws work best with solid core wire, if using stranded wire you should use gold-plated copper crimped ferrules over the wire end such as those from WBT, ViaBlue and others made specifically for use with their set screw type connectors.

Steve

Set screw sounds better than any solder connection. It's not a huge deal if the solder joint is done properly with good solder like WBT or Johnson IA-423 though... but set-screw is better, so is crimp actually, but it has to be a very good crimp. You'll never find people soldering critical wiring harnesses, like for aerospace, ever... all crimp. Crimp and set-screw connections can be protected with something like Caig, but the material under the set-screw is generally gas-tight and will never corrode.

Also, you shouldn't be using stranded wire anyways... 

[Wayner]

BFA banana plugs on amp end as they are easier to plug and unplug. I like to swap amps in and out occasionally. The problem with BFAs is they are basically a spring which loses tension over time. I keep a perfectly sized phillips screwdriver next to the amp which I insert inside the BFA plug to resize it. They are tight as new after one plunge of the screwdriver.

Gold plated copper spades on speaker ends.

The regular banana plugs are the ones that lose tension and fall out the jack. I hate them all, and have gotten rid of them all.

'ner

[jtwrace]

The regular banana plugs are the ones that lose tension and fall out the jack. I hate them all, and have gotten rid of them all.

'ner

These locking banana's are pretty slick. 

http://silversonic.com/docs/products/Plugs.html

[srb]

You'll never find people soldering critical wiring harnesses, like for aerospace, ever... all crimp.

Yes, a proper high-pressure hydraulic crimper with a high-quality precision crimp die is excellent (although not likely for the audio hobbyist), but you'll never find critical industrial or aerospace using set screws.

The binding posts in amplifiers and speakers, whether PCB mounted or wired, are almost always soldered (or heaven forbid, push-on "fast-on" connectors!).  I've never seen set screw connections there.  I look at set screws as a convenience thing.

Steve

[avahifi]

I like Bluejeanscable locking banana plugs.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm

Scroll down.

They are really easy to use and are very secure.

Frank Van Alstine

[werd]

Banana over spade. Banana connects do not have the same problems  spades suffer from. All the problems are practical connectivity issues. If the spades are too big for the post they will eventually loosen and come loose and then possible move over to the other post. If the shielding and wire are too stiff, then you have it solder to the spade. Due to the weight of the cable and shielding attached to the spade, it will eventually loosen the post and possibly move over to the other post. Spades posts on amps and speakers HAVE to be at a distance that is further than the end connect can reach. It can happen while on holidays or away from you system. You come home and turn it on. Spades suffer from the same scenarios bare wire suffer from.

So if the binding posts are close you should tape spades to avoid a short.

None of these problems exist wiith bananas.  Spades can be a pain in the ass and cause damage.

[DaveC113]

Yes, a proper high-pressure hydraulic crimper with a high-quality precision crimp die is excellent (although not likely for the audio hobbyist), but you'll never find critical industrial or aerospace using set screws.

The binding posts in amplifiers and speakers, whether PCB mounted or wired, are almost always soldered (or heaven forbid, push-on "fast-on" connectors!).  I've never seen set screw connections there.  I look at set screws as a convenience thing.

Steve

Check out Furutech FT-865, some of the best binding posts on the market today. They are intended to be used with FT-210 push connectors, which are crimped onto the wire, and this is better than soldered connections too. I've seen quite a few binding posts with the set-screw option, but honestly it matters more for line level signals vs speaker level.

Set-screws can make a gas-tight seal like a good crimp can, but are subject to loosening up over time, they do need a bit of thread locker. I'll still maintain that set-screws always sounds better than a soldered connection as I've tested it in different connectors many times.... gosh, it's almost like I do this for a living

----------------

werd, "shielding attached to the spade"???  A huge majority of speaker cables are not shielded. Spades DO NOT suffer from the same issues as bare wire as they are often plated and won't corrode.

Bananas have their own issues as the only good ones are pure copper with a locking mechanism, so they are more expensive and complicated.

[srb]

I'll still maintain that set-screws always sounds better than a soldered connection as I've tested it in different connectors many times....

If that's truly the case, it seems almost a shame that the audio signal has to go through dozens of soldered connections in the preamplifier and amplifier before it gets to the set screws in the speaker cable connectors.

Steve

[Wayner]

If anyone here is familiar with Phoenix connectors, they have a pressure plate below and above the stranded wires, and a set-screw pushes down on the top pressure plate, squeezing the wires between the 2 plates. These connectors are used throughout the manufacturing machine industry where untold millions if not billions are used every day in horrible environments (heat, vibrations, humidity, etc.). Perhaps some day, the audio industry will pull its proverbial head out if its a$$ and realize that there are a bunch of connectors in use today that simply aren't very good. Maybe UL and CE will force a change.......

'ner

[DaveC113]

If that's truly the case, it seems almost a shame that the audio signal has to go through dozens of soldered connections in the preamplifier and amplifier before it gets to the set screws in the speaker cable connectors.

Steve

I did say it's a subtle difference, and even less in speaker cables vs IC cables... but OTOH high end audio is all about subtle differences. I do agree that there is the possibility for improvements over typical PCB or PtP wiring techniques in components as well as i/o connections. There is a huge array of wire connection possibilities out there and many are probably better than what's typically used in components. As a former welder and engineer who has also done commercial electrical design some of these are very impressive. In comparison, many audio type connections are old and outdated... RCA jacks and binding posts work but aren't exactly state of the art!