[electricbear]

Thanks Steve for being a most generous host and allowing us to enjoy your home and system. You've got a neat set up with the Maggies and VTL.  

[DeadFish]

Right you are, Tim!
A most spectacular host with great sides of chili, gear and camraderie.
Had a nice time, too much to listen to (again!), and all of a sudden, it was time to go...
I like your Maggies, Steve.  I agree with you that it was worth the trip to Chicago to get them as they really fill up your room with sound.  TALL sound.  
After all that, I'm sure that you are glad you are liking them as well!
Now if you can just shovel your way out from under all of that gear!  
Thanks again for hosting, Steve.

Regards,
DeadFish

[vpolineni]

I'll chime in here..
  as always, steve was a most gracious host and I had a blast listening to all of the gear on his maggies (which are really nice)-tim's audio research 150.2 amp was really nice... that was my first time hearing a tripath amp.  I'll second the compliments on the chili-that was damn good!  steve, can i have the recipe?  

[pjchappy]

Thanks a lot Steve!

I had a great time. . .sorry I had to rush out of there, though.

It was nice to meet some of you for the first time. . .

p

[steve k]

The pleasure was mine guys. I had a great time. Whenever we get together it's more about the people and the music than the equipment which is what really makes it fun. BTW, we did get to finally biamp the maggies with the VTL's and the AKSA 100 at the end of the night. It sounded great. Thanks again to Hugh Dean of AKSA for sending this amp around the world. Also a thanks goes out to Wayne at Bolder Cable for kindly letting us hear the JJAZ amps and his Nitro and Summit cables. They sounded great, Wayne!

I feel bad that we didn't get to hear Blackmore's kickass system. Maybe we can convince Mark to host a private hearing in his soundroom with the new Abbies too? Hope the kitty is OK, Mark.

Thanks also to Paul for bringing the Scott Nixon Tube DAC+ by again and leaving it hostage with me. And Sturg for bringing the ARonov preamp--I'm growing to like it way too much for my own good. Tim, thanks for bringing the ARC digital amp--that was a big surprise to all of us.

Hope you all survived the chili today.   Vasu, I'll PM the recipe too you. I'm a little heavier with the Texas hot sauce than the recipe calls for.

I'll get some pics up later.
steve k

[DeadFish]

Hey Steve!
Now that I am a little more awake and hopefully over the chili ,
could you pm that recipe to me as well?
I've really curtailed my chili eating as I've (*ahem*) gotten *(cough-cough)* used to my 'older' body. That was really great stuff and didn't  mess with my post-gall bladder world.  
I had two bowls!

Ah, and no one mentioned my 'honorarium' audiophile (*with 3 support cones!*) Lucky Tool!  Mark was kind enough to make my face split with the presentation! I'll never look at dog poop the same way again...
I too, wish your cat well.  Failing health is tough with old friends...

We were definitely 'over-amplified' last nite!  (Since when is 'too much' enough?) Well, lots to mix and match with.
I don't know if I could pick a favorite, even with your VTLs in the mix.
I'm getting to know your VTL/ Maggie sound, that is about as schizoid as my Vandie/Bryston mix.    I like it.
Kinda like Perry Como with a full pot of coffee in him.
I've heard 'Perry on Crack' and you wouldn't like that.  
In my opinion, I liked the AKSA alone on the Maggies.
The biamping with the VTLs mixed me up.  
I've had my own genuine adventure since getting my right ear 'tubed', where notes are faster and bass not boomy.
Versus the left with fluid and 'bloom'.  It took weeks for my 'wetware' between my ears to make sense of it well.  Well, all that went out the window when you were biamped.  But I got a good excuse.
I also don't know if that was what was going on with my ears and the JJAZ amp.  I have a lot of thoughts on that, and maybe others that have heard these amps in other systems on their 'road trip' might chime in.
Has anyone else matched them to Maggies?  
I heard these amps in Denver and they were right fine with the VMPS speakers there.  The amp just didn't seem to have as much life with the Maggies, for me.  It sounded great, don't get me wrong, but some of the dynamics I look for in some music was missing.  SO, what was it?
I've heard what I wanted from the amp before. I've heard it from the Maggies. Poor particular matchup, or my ears?  
Oops, didn't get enough time to figure it out.
Got any of that chili left, Steve?

And I didn't get enough time with your TubeDAC+, Paul!
More listening is merited!  
And you don't get out either Tim!  Liked what I heard out of the amp, but it is kind of like sniffing the cork from the wine bottle and having to leave before the bottle has 'aired' a bit.  

Had a really nice, relaxing time with everyone, and meeting Vasu and Paul, finally.  Now I gotta schmooze my(our!) way into listening to those Lorelleis!

Well (sigh), its over. Whose 'next'?  

"Such a long, long time to be gone...
  and a short time, to be there..."
                                                 Robt. Hunter

Regards,
DeadFish

[Scott F.]

Thanks again Steve. As always, you're a great host. The chili really was excellent. If you don't mind, PM me with the recepe too.

Well (sigh), its over. Whose 'next'?  

I realize it's a bit premature but maybe I'll do the next get together if you guys want to come out. I've got some pretty cool gear either in house or on the way. The Dadelus DA1's should be showing up next week. I'll hang onto the Jolida 300b until I'm done with the review of the DA1's (they're 96db eff).

Should have a couple of more pieces in by then (....ahem ....Klaus!!!).
Brad, maybe by that time you'll have the DRD done and broken in. I'd love to hear that. No doubt Willie will have some new ultra cool creation if he can squeeze us in between his playing schedule. Who knows, maybe Thom can even bring by one of his super cool 2a3's.

Since we've got the holidays getting close, do we want to set a date now? I'm good anytime from the day after Thanksgiving on, except Sunday 12/12. Saturdays are always good since we have a bit more time to try things out.

Mark, sure hope all is well with your kitty.

[Blackmore]

Thanks for the thoughts about my little Louie cat.  It looks very bad for him, but he's in the best vet clinic possible.  They'll try to do bile duct surgery on him Monday if he can keep his strenghth up.  He's been my listening buddy, my napping buddy and a fond companion.  It's killing me to see him go, but at least the pain and suffering will end soon.  I'll see you all next time and we'll listen to one for Louie.   Mark

[steve k]

Sorry to hear about Louie, Mark. We're pulling for him.

I think it would be nice of you guys to post a word or two on the Aspen site and the Bolder site about your thoughts on the AKSA amp and the JJAZ amp and Bolder cables. It's only fair to Hugh and Wayne who were kind enough to send these amps around the country for our enjoyment. I've already given my comments to both of them having heard the amps most of the week.

These are the threads:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=11644.msg124176#124176&sid=16bf2ded3152ed4e8252cbaaf833a6d1

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=13440

Thanks,
steve

[lonewolfny42]

Hey GAS Guys...how about the JJAZ amps ??? You impressions....THANKS !!!

[Wayne1]

I think it would be nice of you guys to post a word or two on the Aspen site and the Bolder site about your thoughts on the AKSA amp and the JJAZ amp and Bolder cables. It's only fair to Hugh and Wayne who were kind enough to send these amps around the country for our enjoyment. I've already given my comments to both of them having heard the amps most of the week.

It would be very appreciated for all of you to comment on the JJAZ amp and the BOLDER cables that I have sent around. That is why JJAZ and I are doing this. Good, bad or indifferent, we do wish to know what people think about our gear. If we do not get any comments or reviews, the tour will stop.

There are a new set of binding posts on the way to SteveK for one of the 1000Watt mono blocks. It should arrive Tuesday. If any of you wish to borrow the amps for an in home demo between the 500 watt and 1Kw, please get in touch with me. If any of you care to audition any of the cables in your own system, please get in touch with me.

I am willing to let the amps stay in St. Louis a bit longer so everyone will get a chance to hear the 1Kw mono blocks.

Thanks,
Wayne

[audiojerry]

Wow, what a great community of AC members! It's nice to have so many members in close enough proximity to share in the hobby. I think these get-togethers are most valuable for establishing friendships with guys sharing a common interest, and to re-inforce interest and enthusiasm for great audio.

As so oftentimes happen, the enthusiasm is so strong, and everyone volunteers to bring over so much gear that the sessions become overwhelming, and little value, outside of the comaraderie (sic), can be derived from them in terms of evaluating components.

In fairness to Wayne and Hugh, and our other AC commercial members, I do agree that we owe them worthwhile reviews and comments. Poor followups may dampen their willingness to participate in future tours.

I would recommend to them that they request that any group evaluations afford enough time for everyone to perform a thorough listening, and that review of other components at the same time be limited to the owner's reference component. Personally, I believe it's more worthwhile when the evaluation is limited to just one or two serious listners at a time, and that they have a well defined listening agenda.

Wayne, I'd be happy to evaluate the JJAZ and pass it to someone else living in the Milwaukee/Chicago area. There are quite a few of us around here. Earlmarc and Spectralman are both ZR-1600 owners who might be able to provide a digital perspective on the JJAZ. You might want to pm them.

my own 2 cents

[Scott F.]

Let me try to address why the others have been so silent regarding the JJAZ amps. I don’t think anybody wants to be overly critical of the JJAZ amps so I’ll try to encapsulate (pretty much) what everybody else heard (in at least in the conversations that I had with four or five of the guys there).

Steves basic setup
Maggie IIIa’s, VTL MB 125 amps, modified Bottlehead pre, Sony C333es SACD player, VPI HW19 Jr. w/ REGA RB-250 arm, Expressimo Heavyweight and Shure V15-VxMR cartridge and Bottlehead Seduction phono preamp with Anticipation upgrade, Clarity Labs interconnects.
Tim brought his Audio Research 150.2 tri-path digital amp.
Paul brought his Nixon tubed DAC.
I brought Hugh’s 55 watt AKSA and a Pioneer SF-750 active crossover.

First, the Bolder Cables. Unfortunately, we didn’t have a chance to do any comparisons of Wayne’s cables and interconnects. We had three amps, two pre’s and a tubed DAC that we played with over a span of about four hours not to mention a big 'ole pot of Steve’s chili that we squeezed in between all of it.

We did use Wayne’s Cryoed speaker cables for all of the demo’s. We didn’t do any a/b’ing but the Bolder cables seemed to do a right fine job IMO. Steve may be the better one to address their sound since he has been living with them in his system for the best part of a week or so.

The Amps
We started the session listening to Steves VTL’s to get a point of reference then we switched over to the JJAZ amp (the stereo version, unfortunately their was a problem with one of the monoblocks). As I understand, the stereo version is essentially the same circuitry as the mono’s, it just shares a power supply and has fewer transistors (hence it’s lower wattage output). Steve had been running the JJAZ for the best part of about two days to make sure it was well warmed for the session.

When we switched the VTL’s for the JJAZ we found a few major differences. Setting the tubes vs. solid state thing aside, we (I think I speak for most of us) found the JJAZ lacking in dynamics. It seemed constrained. In addition the JJAZ seemed a bit rolled on the high end and even more rolled in the bass department when compared to the VTL’s. This showed itself again with the subsiquent amps we played.

Tim from Best Sound showed up with the Audio Research 150.2. Essentially a lesser powered but comparatively priced tri-path digital alternative to the JJAZ amps. We switched the JJAZ amps for the AR. Even cold, the difference was significant. The AR showed life and extension. Listening, it was a little harder sounding than the JJAZ but here the AR didn’t have any warm up time. As time went on, it began to smooth out fairly well, though we pulled the plug on it only about 30-45 minutes into it (may have been an hour).

After the AR amp we plugged in the AKSA amp. To quote Mike D, “This thing has hair and balls”. The AKSA was a fun listen. Hugh has shown (again) just how good solid state can sound.

Going back to the JJAZ amp. I’m not quite sure what the problem was with it. I noticed the review comments from the guys at the NC Circle in the Critics Circle. I think our collective thoughts pretty much match theirs. We found it lacking in dynamics or ‘life’ if that word fits better.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=14042&highlight=
Deadfish alluded to it also in his post on page one of this same thread.

I don’t think it was an impedance mismatch between the pre and amp. We used two different pre’s, Steves Bottlehead and Sturgus’s Aronov. It may have been the current draw of the Maggies (you’ll notice Vasu’s post questioning others experiences with the JJAZ and high current speakers).

I talked to Steve earlier and he is going to try installing his Auto-formers to see if the dynamics, bass and treble are restored. Since the Auto-formers show the amp a stable impedance load, this should be fairly telling.

[bmed]

Thanks Steve!!  What a great night.  I enjoyed catching up with you guys.  Talking with my wife, it had been early spring since I had made a gathering.  Email just isnt' as much fun as real-time!

I love the Maggies.  The biamping experiment at the end was a great study in the crossover points and the soundstaging effects for me.  Also, the Maggies really play the TEST TONE  from the Emergency Broadcasting System really well (Thanks Scott,   ).  

Will post my impressions of the Jazz and Bolder.  Just finished a little ditty over on the AKSA.

Cheers,
Brad

[JJAZ]

It is quite amazing how many different opinions we have heard on the sound of the ICEpower amps. It ranges through everything from "tube like bottom end", "most dynamic ever", "extremely detailed", "smooth", "neverending headroom" to "like a wire with amplification".
Now we have also heard that they are lacking dynamics? How come people can test a product and come up with such differing opinions??

Comparing it to a VTL (or any other tubeamp for that matter) will inherently yield interesting results. A tubeamp has an enormous amount of "dynamic distortion" meaning that every attack (being it drums, strings or a paino) has a more dynamic sound due to the "dynamic distortion".
The tubeamps distortion raised exponentially with the power output when a dynamic pulse is required. We all know that a 90dB tone with high distortion is percieved as being a lot louder than a 90dB tone without distorttion, and this is exactly the reason that amps with high "dynamic distortion" sounds more dynamic.
This technique is actually used in so called Mini-Systems where distortion is added to make the stereo sound louder than it is actually capable of.

Where do we want to go with this speech? What we want to say is that facts are facts, and low distortion amps does sound less dynamic compared to higher distortion amps.
The ICEpower amps exhibits VERY low distortion no matter the amount of power you pull from them. We are talking pure raw power without coloration and they are indeed highly dynamic, thing being that they do not add any false dynamics that was not originally present on the recording.

Finally we would like to say that this is not an attack on the other amplifiers neither tube nor transistors. This is our attempt to explain why some of you feel that the ICEpower sounds a bit restrained.

When we switched the VTL’s for the JJAZ we found a few major differences. Setting the tubes vs. solid state thing aside, we (I think I speak for most of us) found the JJAZ lacking in dynamics. It seemed constrained. In addition the JJAZ seemed a bit rolled on the high end and even more rolled in the bass department when compared to the VTL’s. This showed itself again with the subsiquent amps we played.

[DeadFish]

Thanks for your thoughts and explanation, Johnny!

There is a lot of sense to what you are saying.
When I listened to some mighty expensive Experience amps, I had the same impression when an album began that I knew very well, that something was 'missing'.  By the end of that same album, I knew that I was hearing all of the same notes on the lp, however without distortions I was used to hearing it with.
Kind of like taking 'rose colored glasses' off and wondering what the deal is with all of the light.  

I know when I was listening to the JJAZ amp at Steve's, a little voice in my head kept hollaring 'Turn it UP!'.
Maybe that is a voice I should have listened to.

So Steve, when are those amps going on the road again? (hint!)
I have to bring that SMILE album back to you, you know....(hint!)
hehehehe

Thanks again, Johnny for helping me understand the experience a bit more, and of course everyone involved in the chain of me getting to hear them.

Best Regards,
DeadFish

[steve k]

The monoblocks are still not functioning. There was a delay in shipping the new binding posts. As soon as I get them, hopefully we'll get the monos running again (as I hope my diagnosis was correct) and get to give them a spin. We can compare them to the stereo unit and we'll post some comments. You're welcome to share in the experience. We can crank them as loud as you want. Hopefully I'll have them Thursday now.
steve k.

[pjchappy]

"I know when I was listening to the JJAZ amp at Steve's, a little voice in my head kept hollaring 'Turn it UP!'.
Maybe that is a voice I should have listened to. "


I was thinking the same thing. . .ALL NIGHT. . . . .but, that is just the way I like it. . .  

p

[JJAZ]

Thanks for your thoughts and explanation, Johnny!

There is a lot of sense to what you are saying.

Your're welcome, we felt there was a need for an explanation.

I know when I was listening to the JJAZ amp at Steve's, a little voice in my head kept hollaring 'Turn it UP!'.
Maybe that is a voice I should have listened to.

Oh, yes.. That's a very common thing among all of our ICEpower customers. We have had so many people telling us that they now find themselves listening to music at higher levels than before.

[audiojerry]

What Johnny was describing seems to reflect the impressions I experienced the first time I listened to a digital amp (the Solar Hifi) about a year ago. It was extremely clean and uncolored, which could be misinterpreted, if one is accustomed to something else. By comparison to a Van Alstine amp, it sounded leaner and less full in the bass, but to me it sounded exceptionally fast.  It did not sound tube-like or solidstate-like. However, the Solar seemed to be very sensitive to low-impedence speakers, and performed much better with an 8 ohm speaker. This was based on a listening session at Jackman's house.

Johnny, are you aware of any sensitivity to speaker loads? I thought ICEpower was supposed to be pretty immune to this.