New DHT Line Stage

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Vinnie R.

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #280 on: 15 Aug 2016, 11:37 pm »
Hi Peter,

Thanks for your post!  SV811 tubes, 384kHz feed to the dac =  :drool:


Hi kdbrink,

Those are lit up Svetlana SV811-10 tubes (thoriated tungsten filaments have a bright glow).

Vinnie

Srajan Ebaen

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Rolling tips requested
« Reply #281 on: 16 Aug 2016, 01:31 pm »
As posters to this thread may know, I'm reviewing the DHT module. I've got a clear take on the EH gold-grid 2A3 now. Those who've already done the deed and know the stock-tube sound: what other tubes have you tried and which of those made the biggest difference in terms of altering the flavour and shifting things in a different direction (regardless of whether your taste or not)? I'm interesting in trying out a few others but have to buy a set each so want/need to be prudent. I'm primarily interested in *big* changes just to see how much wiggle room there is in the general presentation. I'm less interested to go from French vanilla to regular vanilla if you get the meaning. Chocolate or strawberry would be more like it  :oops:

zybar

Re: Rolling tips requested
« Reply #282 on: 16 Aug 2016, 03:57 pm »
As posters to this thread may know, I'm reviewing the DHT module. I've got a clear take on the EH gold-grid 2A3 now. Those who've already done the deed and know the stock-tube sound: what other tubes have you tried and which of those made the biggest difference in terms of altering the flavour and shifting things in a different direction (regardless of whether your taste or not)? I'm interesting in trying out a few others but have to buy a set each so want/need to be prudent. I'm primarily interested in *big* changes just to see how much wiggle room there is in the general presentation. I'm less interested to go from French vanilla to regular vanilla if you get the meaning. Chocolate or strawberry would be more like it  :oops:

Srajan,

The two tubes I would recommend are:

Svetlana SV-811 - SV811 is denser, richer, more seductive, awesome tone, and can really rock.  Bass could be a little too much depending on speakers, room, and listening preference

EML 2A3 Mesh Plate - The mesh plates have a killer top end and are more open and holographic sounding.  They also are faster and more detailed, without being edgy.  Midrange is more fleshed out and bass is stronger with better texture.  Only negative is the price.

Both are significantly different from the stock tubes.

In between the stock tubes and EML 2A3 Mesh Plate would be the Genelex Gold Lion PX300B.  Not sure if I would call it chocolate or strawberry...but it is definitely different from the stock tubes.

George

schw06

Re: Rolling tips requested
« Reply #283 on: 16 Aug 2016, 06:20 pm »
In between the stock tubes and EML 2A3 Mesh Plate would be the Genelex Gold Lion PX300B.  Not sure if I would call it chocolate or strawberry...but it is definitely different from the stock tubes.

George

George,
   Can you add a little more description of the Gold Lions? Also, would you mind commenting on noise floor among the tubes you've mentioned? Thank you!
David

Vinnie R.

Re: Rolling tips requested
« Reply #284 on: 16 Aug 2016, 06:55 pm »
George,
   Can you add a little more description of the Gold Lions? Also, would you mind commenting on noise floor among the tubes you've mentioned? Thank you!
David

Hi David,

I'll chime in as well on this:

- Surprisingly, the stock EH2A3 Gold Grid tubes have the lowest noise / hum out of the ones that I've tried so far in the
LIO DHT PRE circuit.  I say "surprisingly" because they certainly are not the most expensive new production 2A3 on the market.

I chose the EH2A3 Gold Grid as the stock tube for the following 4 reasons:

1) Sonically, I found it sits 'right in the middle' and makes for a great starting point and possible final destination tube - detailed but not overly so; rich tone but not too thick/dense/overly saturated; tight fast bass response (but not a tube that bass heads will fall in love with).

2) New production tube, easy to obtain in quantity and at <$100/ea. does not break the bank. 

3) Per above - very low noise and hum in our circuit, better in this regard than most other DHT I tried, including quite a few different new production 2A3 and 300B and the more pricey tubes like the EML 2A3 and 300B.

4) Very linear response and high bandwidth in this circuit: 10Hz - 250kHz (+/- 0.5dB) and the -3dB point was close to 500kHz!

Does this mean that the EH2A3 Gold Grid is the one that you will like the best in your system?  Not necessarily.  They really
all have a different flavor. 

The Gold Lion 300B is also quite good!  A little more hum / tube rush than the stock (higher sensitivity speakers will pick up on this
more), and for me, it sits somewhere between the stock EH2A3 and the SV811. 

Once I get caught up, I plan to purchase quite a bit more DHTs from different families / brands and report back in more detail.  In the meantime, the DHT Tube Tour is rolling forward and hopefully we'll see more impressions from that over the new few weeks.

Sorry I've been so busy!  I had no idea that DHT PRE was going to take off like it did (and I've been busy on future projects as well  :wink:), but I am thankful for it and really "amped" to read so many positive impressions here and via emails! 

Vinnie

sfox7076

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Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #285 on: 16 Aug 2016, 06:56 pm »
I respect that.  I was just hoping to understand better where on the triode curve these are.  My attempts at making a preamp will never be as good as yours I am sure, so I am sure I will eventually try yours. 

If I can ask a different question, would it ever be feasible to change the filament supply in the future to use a 26 or a 10?  You have an amazing breadth of power in the unit, but I really have a thing for 10Y tubes.  They use a 7.5v filament (at 1.25A).  The 26 is only 1.5v, so it is likely more doable.  Assuming the operating points still work out.

Srajan Ebaen

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Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #286 on: 16 Aug 2016, 07:40 pm »
Zybar: Gracias. Well noted. Those two look/sound like good candidates to explore the "extremes".  :thumb:

sfox7076

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Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #287 on: 16 Aug 2016, 10:10 pm »
And get a pair of 01As to try.  It is a different world.

ddark65

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Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #288 on: 19 Aug 2016, 10:24 am »
Takatsuki 300B
« Last Edit: 19 Aug 2016, 11:06 pm by ddark65 »

matthewpartrick

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Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #289 on: 20 Aug 2016, 02:24 am »
This may have been covered previously in this thread--where are peeps buying their different tubes to try out?  I have never really tube-rolled before, even though I have the tubestage on my LIO, so I don't need some esoteric model with Edison's fingerprints on it.  I am familiar with EL34s from my Marshall, and have tried Telefunkens, ElectroHarmonix and Svetlanas with this amps, but I've never ordered any from online.  Anything I need to know/avoid?

Thx in advance.

Srajan Ebaen

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Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #290 on: 20 Aug 2016, 07:56 am »
I'll add myself to matthewpartrick's query. We've been in Ireland for 3 months now and I've never dealt with any UK tube resellers before. Any contact recos there would be appreciated - not for the usual guitar tubes but the kind Lio DHT takes.

jriggy

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #291 on: 20 Aug 2016, 03:02 pm »
Takatsuki 300B

$2500 a pair!  :o Zoinks!!

I very much like the Gold Lion PX 300B's in the LIO and would eventually like to check out another 300B but dang!


Vinnie R.

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #292 on: 22 Aug 2016, 02:35 am »
All,

I don't have experience with online tube shops outside North America, but inside
North America here are some options:

https://tubedepot.com/t/tubes/power-tubes/300b-2a3-6a3 (EH, Gold Lion, JJ, KR Audio, some NOS)

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/300B-Tube-Types (EH, JJ, Shuguang, Shuguang Treasure)

http://tubesusa.com/ELtubes.html (Emission Labs)

Grant Fidelity (Canada) is the distributor for the Chinese Psvane and Shuguang Treasure tubes:

http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/
http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/purchase/shuguang-treasure-series-vacuum-tubes/

More Exotic 300Bs:
http://www.store.diyhifisupply.com/300B


I have to admit that I'm curious about these:



and



But not cheap at $775/pair and $995/pair, I'm not ready to jump just yet.  And $2500/pair for the Takatsuki 300B
is really getting up there, but if they sound amazing I would have to consider them:



One day I hope to give them a try.

As for NOS, I've mainly been looking on ebay and scored some 45s and CX301A's at a good price.  Western Electrics
are rare and pricey, but I'd love to hear those as well as some RCA 2A3s  8)

This is only the beginning of the adventure for me.  Once I am more caught up, I'll have more time to play.  :drool:

For now, I loving the EML 2A3 Mesh Plate and Svetlana SV811-10s (two different flavors), and the stock EH2A3 Gold Grid's
are quite the "sleeper" tube in this circuit and I still like using them as well.

Vinnie

genjamon

Re: Rolling tips requested
« Reply #293 on: 22 Aug 2016, 03:14 am »
As posters to this thread may know, I'm reviewing the DHT module. I've got a clear take on the EH gold-grid 2A3 now. Those who've already done the deed and know the stock-tube sound: what other tubes have you tried and which of those made the biggest difference in terms of altering the flavour and shifting things in a different direction (regardless of whether your taste or not)? I'm interesting in trying out a few others but have to buy a set each so want/need to be prudent. I'm primarily interested in *big* changes just to see how much wiggle room there is in the general presentation. I'm less interested to go from French vanilla to regular vanilla if you get the meaning. Chocolate or strawberry would be more like it  :oops:

In my experience thus far tube swapping in my Lampizator Big7, I'd consider 300B's and 101D's to be at opposite ends of a spectrum of sorts, with 2A3's somewhere in between. 101D's being detail champs, but light on body. Use them to brighten things up. 300B's are full and rich and dimensional when there's good synergy, but overly thick when you need to brighten things up a bit. I'd put 45's pretty close to the center of that spectrum, and 2A3's just leaning to the 300B side of things.

Just my experience in my system, in a couple very different rooms. Lampi big7 with passive VC, into Line Magnetic 518ia (bypassing the preamp section). Daedalus DA-RMa V2 speakers. Cabling dialed in for clean and transparent.

Specific tubes I've tried:
300b:  Genalex new production, VAIC AVVT supertubes, and currently using Takatsuki
45: RCA old stock cunninghams for fairly cheap off eBay
2a3: 80's Sovtek
101D: base level psvane, psvane WE replicas
PX25: KR

Clearly, 300Bs have been what I've gravitated to along this spectrum. But mainly because the Takatsukis are so so far more resolved and sophisticated than any of the others I've heard (I lucked out snagging a pair used from an ACer for $700 a year or so ago). So, I've tweaked tubes throughout the rest of the system to compensate for the 300b tendency to be too dense/thick. I'd still like to find something with a bit more high frequency verve, but they have to be really damned good in the midrange to displace these Tak's.

OzarkTom


ddark65

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Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #295 on: 22 Aug 2016, 12:20 pm »
All,

I don't have experience with online tube shops outside North America, but inside
North America here are some options:

https://tubedepot.com/t/tubes/power-tubes/300b-2a3-6a3 (EH, Gold Lion, JJ, KR Audio, some NOS)

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/300B-Tube-Types (EH, JJ, Shuguang, Shuguang Treasure)

http://tubesusa.com/ELtubes.html (Emission Labs)

Grant Fidelity (Canada) is the distributor for the Chinese Psvane and Shuguang Treasure tubes:

http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/
http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/purchase/shuguang-treasure-series-vacuum-tubes/

More Exotic 300Bs:
http://www.store.diyhifisupply.com/300B


I have to admit that I'm curious about these:



and



But not cheap at $775/pair and $995/pair, I'm not ready to jump just yet.  And $2500/pair for the Takatsuki 300B
is really getting up there, but if they sound amazing I would have to consider them:



One day I hope to give them a try.

As for NOS, I've mainly been looking on ebay and scored some 45s and CX301A's at a good price.  Western Electrics
are rare and pricey, but I'd love to hear those as well as some RCA 2A3s  8)

This is only the beginning of the adventure for me.  Once I am more caught up, I'll have more time to play.  :drool:

For now, I loving the EML 2A3 Mesh Plate and Svetlana SV811-10s (two different flavors), and the stock EH2A3 Gold Grid's
are quite the "sleeper" tube in this circuit and I still like using them as well.

Vinnie
  I just ordered my pair of Takatsuki 300B for $1912.00 shipped with a 1 yr warranty

BobRex

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #296 on: 22 Aug 2016, 12:58 pm »
All,


I have to admit that I'm curious about these:



and



But not cheap at $775/pair and $995/pair, I'm not ready to jump just yet. 
For now, I loving the EML 2A3 Mesh Plate and Svetlana SV811-10s (two different flavors), and the stock EH2A3 Gold Grid's
are quite the "sleeper" tube in this circuit and I still like using them as well.

Vinnie

Back at the turn of the century I was running the KR 2A3s in my Moondogs.  When one of the tubes popped (after 5 or so years), I put in a pair of EML meshies.  The 2 tubes are pretty close in sonics; I'd say that the EML had slightly better highs, but the KRs might have sounded a little more organic.  Now, at the time I was comparing a 5 year old KR against a new EML, but .....

BTW - I received the DHT upgrade, and really wanted to install it over the weekend.  But between my wife's plans (repainting and rebuilding the garage), and a David Crosby concert, I didn't get the time.  I should have the garage almost done this week, so I'm hoping to free up the time.

Vinnie R.

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #297 on: 24 Aug 2016, 05:05 pm »
Quote from: BobRex
BTW - I received the DHT upgrade, and really wanted to install it over the weekend.  But between my wife's plans (repainting and rebuilding the garage), and a David Crosby concert, I didn't get the time.  I should have the garage almost done this week, so I'm hoping to free up the time.

Keep us posted, BobRex!

As far as the Takatsuki 300B, I'd love to give those a listen in the LIO (but not without a return policy  :wink:)

Vinnie

matthewpartrick

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Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #298 on: 25 Aug 2016, 04:42 pm »
We're going to get a lot of info from the "tube train" i.e. the mailing list that was set up to send DHTs to various LIO owners.  That will help cement my decision on whether or not to fork over extra dollars for big buck tubes.

BTW, on Vinnie's links, does one just have to search for "DHT" or "directly heated triode"?  Does one have to know the specific designation of the tube to search for it?  I'm pretty familiar with guitar amp tubes but I don't know the nomenclature for DHTs beyond what people have mentioned in this thread. :)

Vinnie R.

Re: New DHT Line Stage
« Reply #299 on: 29 Aug 2016, 02:17 pm »
We're going to get a lot of info from the "tube train" i.e. the mailing list that was set up to send DHTs to various LIO owners.  That will help cement my decision on whether or not to fork over extra dollars for big buck tubes.

BTW, on Vinnie's links, does one just have to search for "DHT" or "directly heated triode"?  Does one have to know the specific designation of the tube to search for it?  I'm pretty familiar with guitar amp tubes but I don't know the nomenclature for DHTs beyond what people have mentioned in this thread. :)

Hi Matthew,

When you search for tubes online, it is best to just use the tube model number (e.g. 2A3, 300B).  Most of the time, the online stores
sort them by model number.  The same is true if you are searching for NOS on ebay.

DHT is what we call a triode whose cathode is the actual heating element, as compared to indirectly-heated triodes which have a heater (filament) that is separate from the cathode. 

This page lists the DHTs that are compatible with LIO DHT PRE:

http://www.vinnierossi.com/dht_pre/

For convenience, they are:

2A3
45
300B
PX4 / PX25
101D / 205D
SV811 / SV572
(and more recently I tested a CX301-A and it worked well).

* there are probably other DHT models that are not on this list that will work, but I would need
to test them first to make sure they are suitable in this circuit *


UPDATE  AUG 29th

- The last of the DHT PRE orders will be shipping this week.  Thanks again for all your patience. 

- I'm still backlogged with silver tube covers (need to find a new supplier).  It'll be a few more weeks.

- If you haven't done so already, check out the 6moons review!  This was the last page posted (for those who
have been following it and have already read the others), and gets into the listening impressions:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/vinnierossi2/7.html


This really sums it up:

Quote from: Srajan Ebaen / 6moons.com
It's no exaggeration to write that compared to Nagra, Vinnie Rossi the brand is a flyweight. Swat. It's an upstart barely out of its diapers. In my exotic Olympics however, his Lio DHT PRE took the gold, my beloved Nagra Jazz the bronze. The silver remained out of reach for the Swiss given the size of Lio's lead. 12Awhatever7 triodes of the small-signal persuasion just won't reach this plateau regardless of design pedigree. Vinnie called it. Quite the sobering realization. Given that the Lio platform had previously nabbed one of our exceedingly rare Lunar Eclipse Awards, it had already maxed out our special recognition scheme as well. Time to pause and let it all sink in.

Quote from: Srajan Ebaen / 6moon.com
As reviewed, the Lio DAC/headfi/pre 3-in-one DHT is a game but more importantly gestalt changer.

 :thumb:  8)  :dance:

Many thanks to Srajan for all his effort in writing this, starting from the beginning when LIO DHT PRE was still being designed and finalized!

And Srajan mentioned that he'll post a follow-up when he gets other tubes to roll in...


- Next month, I have some new things to announce in the VR forum that are coming soon.   :wink:

Have a great week!

Vinnie