Need advise where to look with Bryston gear

Gibalok · « **on:** 3 Apr 2016, 08:23 pm »

I have Torus, bryston bp26/4bsst2 and pmc 22 and a couple of dacs (eximus dp-1, metrum musette). Last time on most of recordings im finding the music uninvolving

. I hear a sounds, good dynamics, separation, deep and fast sound but its not musical to bring enjoyment. The sound is kind separated and not coherent..
What should i do? Find another speakers ? (Proac? Penaudio?) or try tube preamp for 4bsst2? Did anybody encounter the same experience? Pmc?

Armaegis · « **Reply #1 on:** 3 Apr 2016, 09:50 pm »

We're going to need some more context here. Have you had this gear for a while and you suddenly don't like it anymore? Is anything new? Has anything else changed in your environment? or your life/lifestyle?

Gibalok · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Apr 2016, 07:19 am »

Armaegis,
Thank you for replying.

I have replaced my system to a corner of my room so i have 1.2-1.5 m between PMCs and 1.5 m from PMC to listener.

PMC 22s always were on "monitor" side type of sound and never forgive poor recordings - so now in these conditions that became a exaggerated.

My opinion is to get another pairs of speakers which are more forgiving to recordings (less direct in HF) or to get tube preamp (to color the sound) until i will have separated room (5x4 sqm) for listening.

I was told by experienced audipophiles that Bryston is very transparent as well as PMC. It doesnt mean analytical or cold, but direct (what "in", that "out"). I was advised to have some colored component on the path like tube pre amp, multibit DAC or less resolutive/more forgiving speakers.

Current conditions - the problem could be that i dont give PMC enough space to breath..

BTW
yesterday I was in our local hifi shop and auditioned speakers including PMC 22 in different conditions. So even in bigger space 22 didnt impressed me. No so for horn type of speakers - Blumenhofer Acoustics - that was true 3D experience. But of cause not for my corner size. But that showed me that Bryston need speekers carefully selected for exact listening conditions

schmidtmike76 · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Apr 2016, 11:29 am »

with that space I would look at Proac's range especially the tabbies. I have had a few proacs in my time and they may suit you well. And they love power

Gibalok · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Apr 2016, 01:32 pm »

Quote from: schmidtmike76 on 4 Apr 2016, 11:29 am

with that space I would look at Proac's range especially the tabbies. I have had a few proacs in my time and they may suit you well. And they love power

schmidtmike76, what exact model?

Are Signature Anniversary 8 are the most good sounding?

James Tanner · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Apr 2016, 01:38 pm »

Given your setup and room size my votes for Bryston Mini A's or a floorstander like the Bryston A2

A2

Mini A

james

Gibalok · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Apr 2016, 02:55 pm »

James, I believe that its better than 22's but its not my case in that time. Hope to try Middle T in the near future

James Tanner · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Apr 2016, 03:57 pm »

Middle T

Daniel Datchev · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Apr 2016, 04:11 pm »

I think your main problem is the distance between the speakers and your listening position. What you need is around 3 m distance. I have PMC MB2 SE which are quit big "beasts", positioned 2,5 m apart and 2.6 m to my listening position by this it makes an equilateral triangle. My advice is to try to position the speakers on the shortest wall which will cause a narrower scene but a better balance between the bass and treble.

Armaegis · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Apr 2016, 05:11 pm »

It also appears you have a wall on your right side? That is going to create a literal imbalance in what you hear. Can you reposition? or perhaps angle out diagonally?

A new preamp/amp/dac will *not* fix things.

Gibalok · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Apr 2016, 07:01 pm »

Seems i need to get some used small proacs e.g. and test whether they will suit the conditions

Gibalok · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Apr 2016, 07:07 pm »

Quote from: James Tanner on 4 Apr 2016, 03:57 pm

Middle T

James, they are awesome. Hope to audition shortly.

James Tanner · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Apr 2016, 07:21 pm »

Quote from: Gibalok on 4 Apr 2016, 07:07 pm

James, they are awesome. Hope to audition shortly.

Yes please let me know what you think.

james

schmidtmike76 · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Apr 2016, 08:27 pm »

Quote from: Gibalok on 4 Apr 2016, 01:32 pm

schmidtmike76, what exact model?

Are Signature Anniversary 8 are the most good sounding?

there amazing given very little bass but the mid range and top end is Splendid. They are tiny and could be more forgiving in that given spot while obtaining world class mid range. Plus there always easy to sell

Gibalok · « **Reply #14 on:** 5 Apr 2016, 11:18 am »

Seems i have fixed the situation a little by turning PMCs parallel to each other. It gives more relaxed HFs and better stereo image.

Another idea is to try another speaker cable which will give more relaxed sound. Now i have Furutech alfa s25. The sound is a bit compressed. Not sure if another speaker cable can help. Not a big believer in 1k+ speaker cable.

Also i was advised to try tube preamp (manley shrimp, copland cta 305) which will soften/distort the sound in HF.

FYI i tried to put Eximus dp-1 directly to 4bsst2 by using its digital preamp avoiding BP26 and it sucked tremendeusly. BP26 is incredible analouge preamp.

Ultimately i would like to soften PMC22 HF and make Midrange a little bit fullier. Whether Proacs should be considered?

Samurai7595 · « **Reply #15 on:** 5 Apr 2016, 11:40 am »

Quote from: Gibalok on 5 Apr 2016, 11:18 am

Whether Proacs should be considered?

Have a listen to the ProAc Response D30R floorstanding speakers.

I've had mine for 3 years now and love them. At first I was using them with a EMM Labs pre-amp & a Bryston 4BSST2 power amp and now I've replaced the pre-amp & power amp with a Devialet 200 integrated amp. What I really like about my ProAc speakers is that due to the bottom firing port design, the bass is always consistent, whether you have a hardwood floor or carpeting or etc. due to the speaker's bottom base (see enclosed pics).

memota · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 Apr 2016, 12:16 pm »

Quote from: Gibalok on 5 Apr 2016, 11:18 am

Seems i have fixed the situation a little by turning PMCs parallel to each other. It gives more relaxed HFs and better stereo image.

I have PMC Twenty 23 and found that when pointed at me they were very harsh. I then read an interview with the designer who said they are designed to point straight out into the room. Seems you've discovered this yourself.

Gibalok · « **Reply #17 on:** 5 Apr 2016, 02:35 pm »

Quote from: memota on 5 Apr 2016, 12:16 pm

I have PMC Twenty 23 and found that when pointed at me they were very harsh. I then read an interview with the designer who said they are designed to point straight out into the room. Seems you've discovered this yourself.

That was considerable positive ammendment.

I Have found Proac 1sc for considerable moderate price. But before trying that i would like to check different speaker cable. More open in midrange..

Gibalok · « **Reply #18 on:** 5 Apr 2016, 02:42 pm »

James, could you please open some secrets about Mini A. What is the sound of Mini A? Comparing to PMC? And what main differences.

Also i was informed by local shop that Mini A is significantly chipper than Middle T. Probably 7-10 times? Are there compromises?

James Tanner · « **Reply #19 on:** 5 Apr 2016, 03:11 pm »

Quote from: Gibalok on 5 Apr 2016, 02:42 pm

James, could you please open some secrets about Mini A. What is the sound of Mini A? Comparing to PMC? And what main differences.

Also i was informed by local shop that Mini A is significantly chipper than Middle T. Probably 7-10 times? Are there compromises?

Hi

Yes the MIni A is a small 3-way bookshelf and does not have the same output capability of the larger Middle T's. The Mini A's have been getting great reviews and in a smaller room perform very well.

All the Bryston speakers have the same design philosophy so it is not a matter of "Better - Best". It is a matter of matching the speaker to the room as well as desired volume levels and frequency response capabilities.

One of the mistakes I think some make is that bigger is better - but if the larger speaker pressurizes the room excessively they can sound dull and lifeless due to sever standing wave issues. Sometimes a smaller speaker in that same room will sound much better because it is not exciting all the room nodes.

Remember that when you listen to a speaker you are not listening to the direct on axis frequency response of the speaker you are listening to the overall 'Sound Power' of 'that' speaker in 'that' room!

james