[schmidtmike76]

Does anyone here use bryston cables for speaker IC and digital and if so what did you move from.  Im thinking of moving all of my cables over to Bryston from eichmann.  Stock power cord for the power amps did you keep it and use it or swap it out for a aftermarket power cord?

[redbook]

 I went for the Nordost  Vishnu power cords over all . Generally there's less noise hence greater detail. Dynamics seemed to get better too but is subtle

[Marius]

I went for the Nordost  Vishnu power cords over all . Generally there's less noise hence greater detail. Dynamics seemed to get better too but is subtle

HI Redbook,


Is there a way to really test that noise/detail aspect in power cables? Ive arrived at a point where only the power(cables) are left to consider for an upgrade. I have no complains though, so don't know what im missing...


Feed the 19 or so from a 20 amp dedicated power source into 2 Brennenstuhl Alu extenders without a hint of deterioration. Advantage is i have 0 watts in standby, and a 1 click poweron to that. Separate group for all devices on a all-wart.

You've got those Nordost's into a dedicated power-source?

Thanks,
Marius

[redbook]

 Would be nice to have tests for any cable  but we can only go by  our individual perceptions. The improvements I hear are very small but every bit helps   LOL

[schmidtmike76]

Ill either decide on crystal cables speak line which is still very good and a power cord or all bryston because of the price.

[Rod_S]

I've use predominately Kimber Kable for interconnects on my main peices since 2004, either PBJ between SSP and amps and Tonic for 5.1 analog between Blu-ray player and SSP. For digital it's a mix of Kimber Opt-1, Acoustic Research reference optical and just cheap radio shack optical. I do have one Monster S/PDIF coax. I use Kimber HD19 HDMI's along with a few really cheap Xbox or Play Station branded ones. Until recently I only ever had one after market power cable, a Kimber PK10 Gold and for speaker cables I've had Ixos for as long as the Kimber PBJ/Tonic/PK10 Gold cables.

I've just recently started upgrading everything to Siltech though.

[maplegrovemusic]

I always forget Bryston makes cables . They sure do not market them to strongly . Why is this ? My local dealer for Bryston (Audio Perfection, mn) does not stock any . Why is this James ?

[James Tanner]

I always forget Bryston makes cables . They sure do not market them to strongly . Why is this ? My local dealer for Bryston (Audio Perfection, mn) does not stock any . Why is this James ?

They don't cost enough 

james

[maplegrovemusic]

They don't cost enough 

james

That was my suspicion .

[schmidtmike76]

James do you use them or a combination of other lines as well.  If you do are some better or just different. 

[James Tanner]

James do you use them or a combination of other lines as well.  If you do are some better or just different.

Here are my thoughts on cables - wrote this a number of years ago but as far as I know the physics have not changed.


GETTING WIRED

 
There is not a day that goes by where I do not get asked what cable Bryston recommends with our amplifiers. Hopefully the following will assist you in weeding through some of these complex issues.

Part of the problem is that there is an awful lot of marketing going on and not much science in some cases. The ‘elaborate packaging’ of these interconnects and speaker cables may make you feel warm and fussy but the electrical characteristics are still the primary issue of concern. Simply stated the geometry (where the plus is relative to the minus) of a cable determines the inter-relationship between the measured performance of a specific cable. These measured performance criteria are called the ‘Primary Constants’. They are R–resistance, L–inductance, C–shunt capacitance and G–shunt conductance. You can play around with all types of exotic packaging and add-on appendages you like but ultimately the measured performance (primary constants) tell the tale.

Bryston does not think cables should be 'voiced' to sound a specific way. The best cable is NO cable at all so we contend that the best cable is the cable that changes the signal the least.

COAX INTERCONNECT CABLES:
An analogue Preamp/Amplifier connection is a ‘high impedance interface’ therefore; you are looking for low measured Capacitance.  An interconnect cable acts like a capacitor in the signal path so the better that capacitor the better the interconnect. We use an interconnect wire with (very low capacitance) and the RCA connectors are made for us in Switzerland. The RCA cables ‘make and break ground’ first and last when connecting and disconnecting. This prevents ugly pops and bangs from going through your system with the possible negative results.

XLR INTERCONNECT CABLES:
The XLR cables we use are also very low in capacitance. Actually the XLR cable we are currently using is in fact low noise balanced microphone cable with 100% shield coverage against RF. The advantage of Balanced XLR cables is that they have a noise canceling effect know as ‘common mode noise reduction’. This helps prevent noise and hum from affecting your system. With today’s complexity of  audio and video surround systems this is a big plus, so if you ‘got em-use em’.

DIGITAL CABLES:
With ‘Digital’ interconnects things are a lot different. The wavelengths of digital signals are ‘very short’ (same for FM) so the lengths and terminations are much more critical than with the analogue signals previously discussed. When the wavelength of the signal the cable is used for approaches 1/30th of the length of the cable then transmission line effects start to appear and much more attention has to be paid to the connection and termination.  If not then reflections and cancellation of data is a real possibility. For instance the AES/EBU digital connection on the back of the Bryston SP3 should be used with a cable having an impedance of 110 ohms.

VIDEO CABLES:
Video cables also operate at very high frequencies – typically 5-6 MHz for Composite and S-Video and 8-30 MHz for Component Video depending on the scan rate and resolution. So again understanding the wavelengths of the signals and interfaces involved is important.

SPEAKER CABLES:
The Amplifier/Speaker interface is a ‘low impedance’ connection.  Therefore, in a speaker cable you are looking for low ‘self inductance’ (because inductance rolls off the top end) as opposed to ‘low capacitance’ required in the RCA or XLR analogue interconnect.  For speaker cables we use a stranded 9 gauge linear crystal copper with ‘Heavily Gold plated’ Spade lugs or Expandable Banana plugs specially made for Bryston.

A/C POWER CABLES:
When you plug your power cord into the wall outlet you are in 'SERIES' with all the wire on the other side of the wall all the way back to the power source. The small length of power cord from the wall to the amp is insignificant compared to the miles of wire it is connected to. As long as the power cord can deliver the current and voltage required to drive the amplifier to full power it is as good as it can get.

There are 4 basic things to remember about these issues:

1. The connection should be of similar metals (preferably gold) and be airtight.  If not airtight it will break down molecularly over time and begin to rectify or produce a diode effect on the signal.

2. With all the RF floating around today the better the ‘Shield’ on the interconnect the less intrusive the RF will be.

3. The connection between your analogue Source components (Preamplifier, CD Player, Tuner, DVD Player etc.) is a ‘High Impedance’ connection and the interface between your power amplifier and your speakers is a ‘Low Impedance’ connection. So, the requirements are totally different for optimizing these interfaces.

4. Digital and Video cables are much more susceptible to reflection/phase/cancellation problems because of their short wavelengths relative to cable length.

As you can see from the above, no surprise that people hear differences in cables when connected to the variety of equipment in the market today. Given the differences in input and output impedance’s between transistor and tube gear, the lack of understanding of the high impedance and low impedance interfaces, the world of RF, and the digital/video connection issues no wonder we have these differences of opinion.

RECOMMENDATIONS:
I highly recommend keeping the speaker wires as short as possible and utilizing XLR balanced lines if available.  Given the choice of long interconnects and short speaker leads or short interconnects and long speaker leads – choose long interconnects (preferably Balanced) and short speaker leads. With digital and video cables finding out the sending and termination requirements is very important due to the very short wavelengths relative to cable lengths involved.

The cables Bryston recommends represent a scientific approach to these issues and are the cables we use in all our professional studio installations.  All of these cables are available through Bryston’s Website (www.bryston.com) or our dealers if you wish.

[mkaiser]

Here are my thoughts on cables - wrote this a number of years ago but as far as I know the physics have not changed.


GETTING WIRED

 
There is not a day that goes by where I do not get asked what cable Bryston recommends with our amplifiers. Hopefully the following will assist you in weeding through some of these complex issues.

Part of the problem is that there is an awful lot of marketing going on and not much science in some cases. The ‘elaborate packaging’ of these interconnects and speaker cables may make you feel warm and fussy but the electrical characteristics are still the primary issue of concern. Simply stated the geometry (where the plus is relative to the minus) of a cable determines the inter-relationship between the measured performance of a specific cable. These measured performance criteria are called the ‘Primary Constants’. They are R–resistance, L–inductance, C–shunt capacitance and G–shunt conductance. You can play around with all types of exotic packaging and add-on appendages you like but ultimately the measured performance (primary constants) tell the tale.

Bryston does not think cables should be 'voiced' to sound a specific way. The best cable is NO cable at all so we contend that the best cable is the cable that changes the signal the least.

COAX INTERCONNECT CABLES:
An analogue Preamp/Amplifier connection is a ‘high impedance interface’ therefore; you are looking for low measured Capacitance.  An interconnect cable acts like a capacitor in the signal path so the better that capacitor the better the interconnect. We use an interconnect wire with (very low capacitance) and the RCA connectors are made for us in Switzerland. The RCA cables ‘make and break ground’ first and last when connecting and disconnecting. This prevents ugly pops and bangs from going through your system with the possible negative results.

XLR INTERCONNECT CABLES:
The XLR cables we use are also very low in capacitance. Actually the XLR cable we are currently using is in fact low noise balanced microphone cable with 100% shield coverage against RF. The advantage of Balanced XLR cables is that they have a noise canceling effect know as ‘common mode noise reduction’. This helps prevent noise and hum from affecting your system. With today’s complexity of  audio and video surround systems this is a big plus, so if you ‘got em-use em’.

DIGITAL CABLES:
With ‘Digital’ interconnects things are a lot different. The wavelengths of digital signals are ‘very short’ (same for FM) so the lengths and terminations are much more critical than with the analogue signals previously discussed. When the wavelength of the signal the cable is used for approaches 1/30th of the length of the cable then transmission line effects start to appear and much more attention has to be paid to the connection and termination.  If not then reflections and cancellation of data is a real possibility. For instance the AES/EBU digital connection on the back of the Bryston SP3 should be used with a cable having an impedance of 110 ohms.

VIDEO CABLES:
Video cables also operate at very high frequencies – typically 5-6 MHz for Composite and S-Video and 8-30 MHz for Component Video depending on the scan rate and resolution. So again understanding the wavelengths of the signals and interfaces involved is important.

SPEAKER CABLES:
The Amplifier/Speaker interface is a ‘low impedance’ connection.  Therefore, in a speaker cable you are looking for low ‘self inductance’ (because inductance rolls off the top end) as opposed to ‘low capacitance’ required in the RCA or XLR analogue interconnect.  For speaker cables we use a stranded 9 gauge linear crystal copper with ‘Heavily Gold plated’ Spade lugs or Expandable Banana plugs specially made for Bryston.

A/C POWER CABLES:
When you plug your power cord into the wall outlet you are in 'SERIES' with all the wire on the other side of the wall all the way back to the power source. The small length of power cord from the wall to the amp is insignificant compared to the miles of wire it is connected to. As long as the power cord can deliver the current and voltage required to drive the amplifier to full power it is as good as it can get.

There are 4 basic things to remember about these issues:

1. The connection should be of similar metals (preferably gold) and be airtight.  If not airtight it will break down molecularly over time and begin to rectify or produce a diode effect on the signal.

2. With all the RF floating around today the better the ‘Shield’ on the interconnect the less intrusive the RF will be.

3. The connection between your analogue Source components (Preamplifier, CD Player, Tuner, DVD Player etc.) is a ‘High Impedance’ connection and the interface between your power amplifier and your speakers is a ‘Low Impedance’ connection. So, the requirements are totally different for optimizing these interfaces.

4. Digital and Video cables are much more susceptible to reflection/phase/cancellation problems because of their short wavelengths relative to cable length.

As you can see from the above, no surprise that people hear differences in cables when connected to the variety of equipment in the market today. Given the differences in input and output impedance’s between transistor and tube gear, the lack of understanding of the high impedance and low impedance interfaces, the world of RF, and the digital/video connection issues no wonder we have these differences of opinion.

RECOMMENDATIONS:
I highly recommend keeping the speaker wires as short as possible and utilizing XLR balanced lines if available.  Given the choice of long interconnects and short speaker leads or short interconnects and long speaker leads – choose long interconnects (preferably Balanced) and short speaker leads. With digital and video cables finding out the sending and termination requirements is very important due to the very short wavelengths relative to cable lengths involved.

The cables Bryston recommends represent a scientific approach to these issues and are the cables we use in all our professional studio installations.  All of these cables are available through Bryston’s Website (www.bryston.com) or our dealers if you wish.

Very well put James, now if people would just listen to the people who know what they are talking about they would save thousands and put these aftermarket cables makers out of business for good. Amen 

[Marius]

Thanks James,
Please let me ask about gauge/ thickness of the power cables :
The 28b's need 3x0,7 mm or 3x1,0 mm cables? On some of my c15 cables the amperage is stated being 6 and 10 respectively . Used the latter to be sure. Shielding is never stated, so what would be your basic recommendation on that, regarding the power cables in general, 28b (more power might need more care) specifically.

Thanks,
Marius

[James Tanner]

Hi Marius - from engineering:

Hi James;

The line cords we supply for the 14B and 28B are 14 ga. That's more than large enough to draw 15 Amps out of the wall. 12A is the largest breaker we are allowed to put in any of our products, which is 80% of the plug rating. 12 Amps X 120V = 1440W., which is about what the amp will draw from the wall plug when delivering its rated 1000W.

An important thing to note is that the transformers used in the largest Bryston Amplifiers. (7B, 14B, 28B), are special 'energy storing' transformers. That means they don't need to draw large, narrow 'spikes' of current when charging the filter caps. Instead, the incoming current is largely sinusoidal, with a small peak-to-average ratio. The energy-storing transformers act almost like a large battery, delivering large current pulses from the secondary while the primary is charged by lower peak current from the wall.

Best regards,
Chris Russell

[Marius]

Thanks James!

Im not aware i received any with my 28b's, and certainly might have mixed-up cables during the various setup changes.....

Now i must find a way to translate the 14 ga into european standards   Ive found this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge and http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/awg-to-mm.htm , but it isn't of much help yet, since on my cables only 0,7 mm or 1,0 mm  and respective amperages are printed.


Anything necessary on the shielding to add to the thickness/gauge aspect of the power cables?
Btw, we have 230 V, so 12 amps draw 2760 max, might that change anything to the engineerings perspective?


Cheers,
Marius

Hi Marius - from engineering:

Hi James;

The line cords we supply for the 14B and 28B are 14 ga. That's more than large enough to draw 15 Amps out of the wall. 12A is the largest breaker we are allowed to put in any of our products, which is 80% of the plug rating. 12 Amps X 120V = 1440W., which is about what the amp will draw from the wall plug when delivering its rated 1000W.

An important thing to note is that the transformers used in the largest Bryston Amplifiers. (7B, 14B, 28B), are special 'energy storing' transformers. That means they don't need to draw large, narrow 'spikes' of current when charging the filter caps. Instead, the incoming current is largely sinusoidal, with a small peak-to-average ratio. The energy-storing transformers act almost like a large battery, delivering large current pulses from the secondary while the primary is charged by lower peak current from the wall.

Best regards,
Chris Russell

[James Tanner]

Thanks James!

Im not aware i received any with my 28b's, and certainly might have mixed-up cables during the various setup changes.....

Now i must find a way to translate the 14 ga into european standards   Ive found this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge and http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/awg-to-mm.htm , but it isn't of much help yet, since on my cables only 0,7 mm or 1,0 mm  and respective amperages are printed.


Anything necessary on the shielding to add to the thickness/gauge aspect of the power cables?


Cheers,
Marius

When we ship overseas we always include the appropriate power cable for the specific country. There is no extra shielding added as far as I know but a quality power supply stage will be designed to reject in-coming noise on the power line.

james

[Grit]

Marius,

If you want to dabble with cables, you might try Morrow Audio. They have a 60 day money back return policy on new cables and a lifetime warranty, so there's no risk (except shipping cost).

- Garrett

[rmurray]

 

[docder]

Thank you for cable info, James.  I have wanted to buy Bryston cables in the UK but can't find a stockist, and Bryston store only seems to be open for Canada/US sales. Are there any Bryston cable suppliers in Uk/Europe?

best

docder

[JLM]

James, I greatly appreciate a simple yet truly scientific approach regarding cables.

But I can't find hardly any product information from Bryston, can't find any reviews, and can't find any other online information makes purchase an act of faith.


You mention Bryston interconnect capacitance and shielding, but no such information is available.

You mention low impedance for Bryston speaker cables, but no such information is available.

I couldn't find any information for Bryston power cords.


And my closest dealer is 100 miles away.