[JDUBS]

Hey Guys

I'd love to try out an MC cartridge with my Technics TT.  Thinking of the Denon DL-103 or DL-110.  Anyone tried either one with their Technics?

Thanks!
Jim

[Airborn]

I have used a DL-110 with my Technics SL-1210M5G very successfully.  It is HOMC so you don't need a SUT and can use your regular MM phono stage just fine.  I don't know for sure, but I think I read somewhere that the DL-103 is not the best match with the standard technics arm.  I have never personally tried the DL-103, however. 

[JDUBS]

I have used a DL-110 with my Technics SL-1210M5G very successfully.  It is HOMC so you don't need a SUT and can use your regular MM phono stage just fine.  I don't know for sure, but I think I read somewhere that the DL-103 is not the best match with the standard technics arm.  I have never personally tried the DL-103, however.

Thanks!  Yeah, I think I'm kinda leaning towards the DL-110, honestly.  Are you using 47kohm loading with it?  I heard it actually does better with closer to 1k.

Also, are you using the stock technics headshell?

-Jim

[dmckean]

Input impedance for moving coils just needs to be at least 10 times greater than the cartridge's internal impedance, which is 160ohm from the DL-110. So you want at least 1.6k and anything above that is fine.

[Airborn]

Thanks!  Yeah, I think I'm kinda leaning towards the DL-110, honestly.  Are you using 47kohm loading with it?  I heard it actually does better with closer to 1k.

Also, are you using the stock technics headshell?

-Jim

Sorry for the delayed reply, I just saw your post. I have the Vista Audio Phono preamp, so the loading is closer to 10 Kohm.  Vista provides a great chart for optimizing loading of its preamp with various carts.  Here is the link: http://www.vista-audio.com/products/phono-1mkII/examples.htm

And yes, I'm using the stock headshell.

[neobop]

Sorry for the delayed reply, I just saw your post. I have the Vista Audio Phono preamp, so the loading is closer to 10 Kohm.  Vista provides a great chart for optimizing loading of its preamp with various carts.  Here is the link: http://www.vista-audio.com/products/phono-1mkII/examples.htm

And yes, I'm using the stock headshell.

The arm is a bit light for a 103.  Users say > 20g mass is better.  You could use a heavier headshell, but it will work either way.  With either of those carts I recommend a Zupreme headshell from LpGear.  At $55 it's identical to the Sumiko with azimuth adjustment.  You should also beef up the counterweight with that combo.  Get it as close to the pivot as convenient.  This isn't for mass.  It's for tracking. 

The 103 is an old radio station cart .  Fred Flintstone had one installed on Dino's tail.  Commonly seen on old arms which could double as a turret on an Abrams tank, it's musicality is high and doesn't overdue it with detail.   The 110 is more of an audiofool cart with an HE upgrade from the spherical tipped 103.  I had a 160 which was nice.  I loaded @ 11K, but it was before I got a Vista.   Loading is preamp and user specific.
neo

[JDUBS]

I appreciate all the feedback fellas.  I actually went a direction and picked up an Ortofon Quintet Red.  It sounds VERY good and I'm super pleased with its purchase.

Thanks again, guys.

-Jim

[a.wayne]

The arm is a bit light for a 103.  Users say > 20g mass is better.  You could use a heavier headshell, but it will work either way.  With either of those carts I recommend a Zupreme headshell from LpGear.  At $55 it's identical to the Sumiko with azimuth adjustment.  You should also beef up the counterweight with that combo.  Get it as close to the pivot as convenient.  This isn't for mass.  It's for tracking. 

The 103 is an old radio station cart .  Fred Flintstone had one installed on Dino's tail.  Commonly seen on old arms which could double as a turret on an Abrams tank, it's musicality is high and doesn't overdue it with detail.   The 110 is more of an audiofool cart with an HE upgrade from the spherical tipped 103.  I had a 160 which was nice.  I loaded @ 11K, but it was before I got a Vista.   Loading is preamp and user specific.
neo

Neo could you clarify on your DL110 statement ? not following .....

[neobop]

The 110 is more detailed and has higher compliance than the 103.  Seems to do well on heavier arms, >15g, but not very heavy like the 103.  Users report no problems with arms like 1200, 301 etc. in 11 - 12g range.   Upgraded tip - Denon special elliptical, often referred to as HE type.  Denon is famous for their high quality diamonds, and high polish.  A HOMC will usually have considerably less output than MM.  Most are usually 1.2 - 2.5mV.  Might not be suitable for passive or limited gain preamps.

By audiophile I mean more stage/image, perhaps less "musical", which is the trademark of Dennon coils.  The 160 was very easy to take and provided nice resolution.  I gave it to a friend who needed a cart.  He said he could retire with it, meaning he was satisfied.  He listens to classical and opera mostly, and that's nice praise, but that's the 160, long discontinued.

The recent price increase is normal, but Dennon's shutting down Comet discounters made it seem like a double whammy, I guess.  I think it's still a good value at 300. 

The Quintet series has been well received.  I haven't heard them.
neo

[TheRevelator]

JDUBS, I was wondering how you're liking the Ortofon Quintet Red now that you've spent some time with it? I too have a SL-1200kmII and am thinking about moving into the realm of MC carts.

[JDUBS]

JDUBS, I was wondering how you're liking the Ortofon Quintet Red now that you've spent some time with it? I too have a SL-1200kmII and am thinking about moving into the realm of MC carts.

Hey, sorry for the delay!  I have spent some time with it and REALLY like it!  I'm sold on MC cartridges in general and this one does a lot right.  Easy mounting / setup with the Technics.

If you have any specific question - ask away!

-Jim

[tdogzthmn]

I've also been considering the DL103 as my first MC cart on my 1210mk2.  My phono is a bugle2 so I'd need to look for a step up transformer.  Does anyone have experience with the ones made but Denon?  Would I be better off looking for a phono that can handle both MM/MC carts and skip the step up transformer?

Thanks!

[stonedeaf]

Just loaned my AU-250 Denon SUT along with a couple of DL-103 carts to a buddy. Denon made SUT's of various prices ( the 250 is BOTL) for decades -still does. Have never been disappointed  with one of their SUT's hooked up to one of their cartridges. Same goes for Ortofon's STM-72 used with one of the matching Ortofon very low impedance/very low output carts that match it.But SUT's are in no way universal . I've run DL-103 on SL-1200 and what always seems to happen is eventually the globs of bluetack start to pile up -them washers get bluetacked to the counterweight to make up for all the mass added to the headshell end.DL-103's just keep sounding better the more  effective mass they are pushin against -a DL-110 is probably a better mechanical match for the 1200 arm . After going back and forth on the loading for the DL-110 -have decided that I like it best at 47kOhms. Went thru the same process with the DL-102 -decided that on balance - best run into 47kOhm.
      Sure would like to know what the standard arm for radio playback was for NHK when they and Denon developed the original and still made DL-103 ?

[tdogzthmn]

Just loaned my AU-250 Denon SUT along with a couple of DL-103 carts to a buddy. Denon made SUT's of various prices ( the 250 is BOTL) for decades -still does. Have never been disappointed  with one of their SUT's hooked up to one of their cartridges. Same goes for Ortofon's STM-72 used with one of the matching Ortofon very low impedance/very low output carts that match it.But SUT's are in no way universal . I've run DL-103 on SL-1200 and what always seems to happen is eventually the globs of bluetack start to pile up -them washers get bluetacked to the counterweight to make up for all the mass added to the headshell end.DL-103's just keep sounding better the more  effective mass they are pushin against -a DL-110 is probably a better mechanical match for the 1200 arm . After going back and forth on the loading for the DL-110 -have decided that I like it best at 47kOhms. Went thru the same process with the DL-102 -decided that on balance - best run into 47kOhm.
      Sure would like to know what the standard arm for radio playback was for NHK when they and Denon developed the original and still made DL-103 ?

Thanks for sharing your impressions.

My 1210 came with the auxiliary weights for the headshell and tonearm so if I went with the 103 I could add the additional weight.

I'm also attracted to the legacy of the 103 being a classic MC cart, seems fitting to pair with a classic turntable like the 1210.

[KLH007]

Bob's Devices makes great sounding SUTs, just heard them at 2016 CAF.

[SteveRB]

I wouldn't say the 103 is typical of most MC carts. I love mine.

I found most lower end MC carts have a tendency to pull apart the musical aspects: highs mids, lows. The playback can feel as though you are listening to the sum of the parts. I feel it is false detail. The 103 has a much more cohesive presentation; everything feels live: off the floor.

[tdogzthmn]

Which Denon SUTs are worth looking for?  I've see the 250 and 3XX models mentioned before.  I'm open to modern SUTs as well but wouldn't want to spend more than $350.  The DL301 can be had for around $200 plus the cost of the SUT is fast approaching $500.  Of course the phono stage in my Rouge Sphinx is advertised to work with HOMC carts so the DL110 would the cheaper route to getting a MC cart up and running with my system...