Demonstrated efficacy of Shunyata Research power filtering in a hospital

RDavidson · « **on:** 11 Dec 2015, 07:57 pm »

This is interesting, particularly for those who need to see some concrete scientific evidence. This is not intended to be a plug for Shunyata on my part. I'm certain Shunyata isn't the only company making effective power products.

http://www.audiostream.com/content/shunyata-research-helps-save-lives?_wcsid=559AEC38D4A8EE8E8FE289F4A916CCBAB3F9C23D15DF963E#3xyA0gegosSHzdpH.97

Folsom · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 Dec 2015, 08:15 pm »

That's funny because they don't provide any information at all

. What is on their website is fluff.

That's good for them that it works. They could have talked to me if only I had a webpage... I'd have built a custom unit.

However I'll point out that just low noise isn't that absolute end to the possibilities for audio. I like to add PFC.

dpatters · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Dec 2015, 08:26 pm »

Another link on this from The Audio Beat.

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/blog/shunyata_research_medical.htm

Don P.

RDavidson · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Dec 2015, 08:27 pm »

Quote from: Folsom on 11 Dec 2015, 08:15 pm

However I'll point out that just low noise isn't that absolute end to the possibilities for audio. I like to add PFC.

Right, but I think this shows that lowering power line noise is something that at least some of these types of products are capable of doing, even if we can't easily perceive it. I think it is an important and useful piece of info (the article and video) for all manfacturers making honest power filtering products.

Folsom · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 Dec 2015, 10:27 pm »

Well I suppose if you call something a power conditioner that doesn't in fact have any filtration in it, that's dishonest. But in general most companies do sell a product that's just fine, it's their marketing that's a bit off. People want to read leagues of information when there... just isn't that much to give. So they make up some fluff to say it all strangely and explain some concepts perhaps.

The biggest problem with audio, not medical, is that the sound may or may not correlate as being good even when the noise is low. There's plenty of not that well regarded units that would work great in the medical setting.

werd · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Dec 2015, 12:03 am »

This reaks of BS. They want us to believe a high precision medical instrument has not taken noise into the equation. That the output of the internal power supply can be improved by a box of wires and some fake tubular shit.

Folsom · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Dec 2015, 12:48 am »

I had a similar thought though, that medical equipment should be low noise to begin with. Just don't forget that noise can be cumulative. It's not out of the question for this to be true for that reason, and consideration is not all the equipment that's interconnected is from the same manufacturer. There could be considerable ground noise that's shared.

Also some people think they've got adequate filtration with pathetic devices like this, so they assume their job is done.

werd · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Dec 2015, 01:34 am »

I doubt they build medical gear under best case scenarios for power. What they are saying there is no power filtration on the med gear. By applying the HYDRA the med gear can now operate better than before with cleaner power.... that is BS. There will be power filtration on that med gear to ensure proper operation of that gear.

RDavidson · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 Dec 2015, 02:25 am »

Quote from: Folsom on 11 Dec 2015, 10:27 pm

Well I suppose if you call something a power conditioner that doesn't in fact have any filtration in it, that's dishonest. But in general most companies do sell a product that's just fine, it's their marketing that's a bit off. People want to read leagues of information when there... just isn't that much to give. So they make up some fluff to say it all strangely and explain some concepts perhaps.

The biggest problem with audio, not medical, is that the sound may or may not correlate as being good even when the noise is low. There's plenty of not that well regarded units that would work great in the medical setting.

I agree Folsom. It'd be nice if the manufacturers, typically the well known brands, would stop with the marketing fluff. I mean, I'm sure a lot of it has a technical / scientific basis, but the marketing department will take the key points of a best and worst case and make big claims from these data extremes.

RDavidson · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Dec 2015, 02:30 am »

Quote from: werd on 12 Dec 2015, 01:34 am

I doubt they build medical gear under best case scenarios for power. What they are saying there is no power filtration on the med gear. By applying the HYDRA the med gear can now operate better than before with cleaner power.... that is BS. There will be power filtration on that med gear to ensure proper operation of that gear.

From what I understood in the video is that the doctor was looking for filtration products that actually stood by their claims / could be proven effective in some meaningful way for the intended (specific) use. Of course medical equipment is normally hooked up to some kind of back-up generator, at least. Maybe not all equipment, but definitely life support systems etc. and all basic stuff to keep the hospital operational during blackouts etc. Like some audio gear, I think it is entirely plausible for some medical gear to be more sensitive to "dirty" power than other equipment. There are always too many factors at hand to claim that filters/conditioners will have the same effect in all scenarios. This Shunyata example is indeed anecdotal, but I don't think that makes it BS.

Folsom · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Dec 2015, 02:42 am »

To an engineer everything will look like fluff to a degree, but it gets carried away sometimes.

The people buying are not often engineers, so you have to communicate with them in some fashion.

Shunyata made up a bunch of acronyms like they're technology, including CGS (central ground system) which is just a common design approach. It's just star grounded, to the rest of us. It's a bit silly, but it's not lies, nor is it data or such that should impress someone in a technical field.

wushuliu · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 Dec 2015, 04:24 am »

Agreed, unless you live off the grid and make your own everything you are a sucker for marketing consciously or not all day every day. Just because you have a particular insight in a certain field doesn't mean you can just call for a product to be marketed in some arbitrary way that satisfies your own personal truth.

I mean I wish Coke didn't market itself as something that makes everyone's life better as soon as they take a sip.

RDavidson · « **Reply #12 on:** 12 Dec 2015, 05:07 am »

I've been thinking about the Coke ads recently, primarily the print ads or web ads that depict classic Norman Rockwell-esque holiday themes, such as a smiling boy arriving at (presumably grandma's house) holding a six pack of Coke (bottles of course). Who does this? Has anyone EVER, during the holidays, showed up at grandma's carrying a 6 pack of Coke as if it is along established holiday tradition? Not likely, but Coke likes to sell that image every year...just as you say wushuliu.

Lots of smoke and mirrors, despite the fact that many times the products don't need such marketing tactics to sell. It's all about competition, not necessarily (just) trying to confuse the consumer.

Maybe Shunyata showed up at that hospital with a 6 pack of Venom Defenders with a smile?

Folsom · « **Reply #13 on:** 12 Dec 2015, 06:31 am »

Ya but you remember the commercial so they won

It's like how anti-smoking commercial are loved by the tobacco industry because they get people thinking about smoking!

Speedskater · « **Reply #14 on:** 12 Dec 2015, 02:26 pm »

Having worked in the R&D department of a medical equipment manufacture. Much of the engineering time is spent on safety testing. Connecting untested equipment to the system is a no-no.

JLM · « **Reply #15 on:** 12 Dec 2015, 02:33 pm »

After spending 25+ years in 100+ hospitals for a living I can tell you that the amount of electrical power aberrations (the correct term for anything other than a smooth sine wave) and use/setups of backup generators varies widely.

The quality of power coming from utility companies varies greatly (old versus new lines/substations) and general condition of the grid in the given area are just a couple of the factors. Nearly all hospitals have been added onto and renovated dozens of times, so the internal mechanical and electrical systems are a mess. Unfortunately power conditioning is applied in hospitals in an as needed patchwork and few have a clinician as shown in the video who has a clue as to the possible issues.

Many hospitals only provide code minimum electrical backup (fire safety related and a few selected places where patient safety is critical - the red plugs should in the video) and most don't consider cardiac catheterization equipment to be "critical" - big mistake IMO. The good news is that in newer installations the reliance on power has generally been taken more seriously. One of the better ones I've seen had 4 synchronized generators that would power the entire 600 bed hospital. Even then they needed 83 UPS units to bridge the 5 - 10 second gap between loss of utility power and generator power (including their cardiac catheterization labs as shown in the video).

Rest assured that vendors of these million dollar machines don't let poor quality power, lack of backup power, or dozens of even more critical factors to stop them from making a sale. And BTW installers of this equipment that use 480 volts don't even have to be licensed electricians, pull permits, or speak the language of the country they're working in.

rollo · « **Reply #16 on:** 12 Dec 2015, 02:59 pm »

We all know marketing and advertising is to gain interest. That said we try the product. Some will lie the affect wrought others will not. for me if any manf. offers a 30 day trial and money back guarantee I'm game to try.
Trying is the key word here. I could care less about the claims, measurements,etc. The key for me personally is what affect does said component have when inserted in my system. Is it better ? Worse ? or just different.
Wether the end result is perceived or actual what does it matter as long as YOU are pleased with the result. Heck Shunyata has us talking about its product.
For me no money back guarantee no sale that simple.

charles

RDavidson · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 Dec 2015, 04:02 pm »

Good insight JLM. Thanks for posting.

Good point rollo. Indeed, all that matters is what you (the consumer) get out of anything you purchase. The problem is when a manufacturer claims something that the product doesn't provide. Obviously drinking a Coke won't make a bad day a good one. But with electronics, I think it is much easier to confuse the average consumer. That's lame....but then again, maybe ignorance is bliss. I used to get annoyed when I'd see people demoing Bose at BestBuy and being amazed. Over time I just didn't care. If people are happy with their purchase, it has no bearing on me.....unless they're trying to put Bose in my house.

BTW, I believe you can get a 30 day trial from places like Music Direct on Shunyata gear, if I'm not mistaken.

jhm731 · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Dec 2015, 05:23 pm »

Another thread on this subject:

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/shunyata-being-used-in-hospital-to-reduce-noise-video.484217

werd · « **Reply #19 on:** 12 Dec 2015, 07:07 pm »

The 1:23 mark on the vid says it all. Basically saying all the solutions available in the market for noise Shunyata is the only one!. Total shill or coached statement. Which one is it?