[RDavidson]

It is rectangular.

Indeed. It is rectangular.
I think he's asking about the design goals that lead to the rather unique shallow depth of the cabinet (compared to most conventional subs).

[JLM]

Perhaps by design the cabinet ratios of the speedTWELVE is the classic ratios used to minimize room echo.

But roughly $3,500/pair added to the Super Alnicos makes for an expensive speaker system (and tough competition at that price point).  And unfortunately they're not shaped to lend themselves well as speaker stands, so add a few hundred more to the cost of the speaker system.

[Canada Rob]

The cabinet is almost the exact golden ratio.  It also has a very small footprint, and is sealed making it very easy to place.

Buying a pair of these right off the bat might be like salting your food before tasting it.  Why not one.....properly placed?  Alnico Monitors aren't necessarily going to be placed on top, and one of these bass units (it's not a sub and doesn't pretend to be a sub) is incredible paired with the RS5.  Also, not everyone who buys a speedTWELVE will necessarily have Omega speakers, yet Louis could easily do customs to stack on the speedTWELVE. 

Stacking is convenient and aesthetically pleasing, but having the monitors on their own stands will yield better imaging due to the smaller point source of the monitors, not to mention more flexibility.

As far as tough competition at this price point goes.  Time will tell.  Most "subs" are cubes that take up more floor space, most "subs" have heavy long throw massive surround drivers, and many are down firing.  Very little looks or likely will sound like a speedTWELVE.

Personally I've always liked a front firing sub for several reasons: they're faster and more direct in that they don't rely on the intermediary of a floor to reflect and further muddy the bass.

Oswalds Mill Audio also takes this lesser known approach to bass reinforcement.

[JLM]

Yes, the speedTWELVE is a mid-bass augmenter (specified to nearly reach middle C) - not a subwoofer, so front firing (and placement directly under the mains) would make sense with the smaller Omega speakers.  And the speedTWELVE is rated down to 28 Hz (only 2/3 of an octave lower than the Alnico monitor).  With rated bass response of the Alnico of 40 Hz and it's 6 inch diameter driver (that should provide plenty of mid-bass body) a true subwoofer would seem to make a lot more sense.  Besides your room doesn't look that huge, so a small sub (low frequency response but relatively modest output) would seem to make the best fit.

Frankly with true response down to 40 Hz there's not a lot to be gained from adding a sub for music because few instruments go lower than that.  Subs are relatively expensive for what they add and yet can cause all kinds of room interaction problems, in room resonances and neighbor issues being two of them.  And what few understand is that bass behaves differently than higher frequencies (waves versus rays) which cause peaks and nulls at different frequencies in different places in the room, that is best resolved by using multiple (3 or 4) bass sources (subwoofers) spread throughout the room.  Many try EQ, DSP, or electronic room correction but that can only solve the problem at a single listening point in the room and make the response in the rest of the room worse.

[Canada Rob]

Good points JLM.

My guess is anyone who buys a speedTWELVE (which is not cheap) would likely be listening from a particular spot and would optimize their system for that seating position whether they had one sub or several subs.  My Super Alnico Monitors are in a 17' x 13' x 8'H room on the long wall with the bass port center 19" from the wall behind (it actually works out to a little more if toe in is taken into account).  I have no need for any bass reinforcement with this speaker.  It's sound is full and rich with a nice solid well articulated bottom end.

With the RS5 sometimes I like a sub and sometimes not - it depends on the setup and the room.

[ihor]

sruffle,

Your picture looks a lot like my living room, with the open archway to the right, windows on the short wall, cast iron radiators with a couch on the left, and speakers similarly located.  Don't know your room dimensions, but I have my speakers (previously Spendor s5es and now new Omega SAMs) a bit further apart along the short wall than what your placement looks like, with an REL T5 subwoofer located next to and inside the left speaker, about a foot behind the front plane of the SAMs.  I experimented with placement of the REL in many places (it comes with a 34 ft dedicated cable for connection) and found this location to be the best - no bass boom or over exaggeration, and nicely filling in the low end.  I tried a corner placement, and regardless of setting adjustments on the REL, I could not tame the excess bass from that location (tried both corners to no avail).

[tvyankee]

Hey.

What is the budget for a pair?

Will this be used for both 2 ch audio and tv sound or just audio. I ask because for audio only subs and small space I may go for a sealed enclosure. I think sealed is nicer for audio only as to me they sound a little faster and less sloppy.

That's just me though.

[mrvco]

Are there plans for a Speed8 to replace the DeepOmega8?

Beyond aesthetics, is there a reason why one might prefer the downward firing DeepOmega design instead of the forward firing Speed design?

I currently have a Velodyne HGS-10 (10", sealed box), but haven't gotten a good feel as to whether replacing it with an Omega sub (one 12 or two 8's) is worth the spend.

[DBC]

sruffle,

Your picture looks a lot like my living room, with the open archway to the right, windows on the short wall, cast iron radiators with a couch on the left, and speakers similarly located.  Don't know your room dimensions, but I have my speakers (previously Spendor s5es and now new Omega SAMs) a bit further apart along the short wall than what your placement looks like, with an REL T5 subwoofer located next to and inside the left speaker, about a foot behind the front plane of the SAMs.  I experimented with placement of the REL in many places (it comes with a 34 ft dedicated cable for connection) and found this location to be the best - no bass boom or over exaggeration, and nicely filling in the low end.  I tried a corner placement, and regardless of setting adjustments on the REL, I could not tame the excess bass from that location (tried both corners to no avail).

I've had a lot of experience with downward firing subs. IMO they really need to be on isolation platforms or they will cause a lot of floor vibrations which travel to the walls and create Room Boom. Corner placement will maximize Sub output but can (in my experience) cause unwanted room interactions in some cases. Placing my sub on an isolation platform made it a lot less sensitive to corner placement and Room Boom.

[sruffle]

All.  Thanks for all the helpful comments on this thread.  There are some great points being made.  One thing that jumped out at me this week is that the bass on the Super Alnicos is pretty good on its own.  I added a Regen Amber to my system and seemed to get significantly more definition in the bass.  Of course the speakers are not going lower but the more haze you can get out of the system, the more authoritative the bass seems to become.  One upgrade I want to make in 2016 is to improve the power supply through either a Regenerator or a SurgeX device.  My guess is that this will provide even more lower frequency definition. 

All that  being said, it seems that a properly integrated sub (even if it runs from 50 - 28 hz) could provide a bottom foundation for the music and improve the soundstage. 

[doggie]

If you choose a sub find one that has a reputation for being "fast". I use an SVS 2000 with my Alnico floorstanders in it integrates very well.

[Bayreuth]

I'm considering the Omega Alnico monitors versus Alnico XRS for use with 300B SET amps.  What would be the potential advantages of stand mounted Super Alnico Monitors with one speedTwelve, versus the Super Alnico XRS without subwoofer?   Which combination could be most effective for large scale orchestral music and opera?  I listen at low to moderate SPL in a room measuring approximately 17 X 24 feet. 

One person I talked with who had owned both the Alnico monitors and Alnico XRS said he thought the monitors were a little "faster" sounding than the XRS, although the XRS version provided slightly greater bass extension. 

Thanks.

[Canada Rob]

I'm considering the Omega Alnico monitors versus Alnico XRS for use with 300B SET amps.  What would be the potential advantages of stand mounted Super Alnico Monitors with one speedTwelve, versus the Super Alnico XRS without subwoofer?   Which combination could be most effective for large scale orchestral music and opera?  I listen at low to moderate SPL in a room measuring approximately 17 X 24 feet. 

One person I talked with who had owned both the Alnico monitors and Alnico XRS said he thought the monitors were a little "faster" sounding than the XRS, although the XRS version provided slightly greater bass extension. 

Thanks.

Hi Bayreuth, welcome to the Omega AudioCircle.

The person you spoke with is correct about the differences between the speakers.

Below is from the website which pretty well sums up the differences between Monitor and XRS.  Whichever way you go, go with the speakers first and then add the sub later if needed.

THE LARGE MONITOR CONCEPT
What is the advantage of a large monitor like the Super Alnico Monitor?
1) Large cabinet volume, as large as many towers thus giving a deep, rich bottom end.
2) Speed, because it has a smaller cabinet volume than a tower extending to the floor.
3) Smaller frontal area making for a smaller overall point source.
4) Choice of stands and placement, making a monitor very flexible.

THE XRS CONCEPT
XRS stands for Xtended Room Speaker. What is extended? The all important midrange, the width and depth of the soundstage, the bottom end, and the "hugeness" of the presentation from a very compact speaker (27"H Super 3XRS, 32"H Super 7XRS, and 35"H Alnico XRS). The bass port is angled downward on the 3XRS & 7XRS, and on the bottom of the Alnico XRS, enhancing the bottom end. The wide baffles on all these models enhance the midrange, giving a wide open unboxed sound and tremendous imaging. The back tilt projects the music out into the room lessening influence from the floor.

Hope this helps.

[Bayreuth]

Thanks for the summation of characteristics for Alnico monitor versus XRS.  For large scale orchestral and operatic music, it's possible that the XRS may be more effective at conveying a sense of scale and a larger soundstage.  Either could be very effective. 

[sruffle]

I thought I would update this thread and report back that I did end up getting a Deep 8 sub that matches my Alnicos.  The sub sits directly to the right of the speakers halfway between the speaker and the wall.  It is is crossed over between 50 and 60 and sits on an Auralex Subdude.

So far the results are better than I had hoped for.  I am not going subterranean  but the music seems to have a much better foundation and has more presence in the room.  Imaging also seems to have improved significantly.   Best of all, it is integrated seamlessly with the mains.  The bass does not sound like it is coming from a box sitting to the side of the speakers.  All in all, it was well worth the expense and effort.

[ihor]

Hi Bayreuth, welcome to the Omega AudioCircle.

The person you spoke with is correct about the differences between the speakers.

Below is from the website which pretty well sums up the differences between Monitor and XRS.  Whichever way you go, go with the speakers first and then add the sub later if needed.

THE LARGE MONITOR CONCEPT
What is the advantage of a large monitor like the Super Alnico Monitor?
1) Large cabinet volume, as large as many towers thus giving a deep, rich bottom end.
2) Speed, because it has a smaller cabinet volume than a tower extending to the floor.
3) Smaller frontal area making for a smaller overall point source.
4) Choice of stands and placement, making a monitor very flexible.

I have wondered about this.  Item 1 talks about the SAM having a large cabinet volume, 'as large as many towers.'  Yet Item 2 states '..because it has a smaller cabinet volume than a tower extending to the floor.'  These seem to be at odds with one another.

[Canada Rob]

I have wondered about this.  Item 1 talks about the SAM having a large cabinet volume, 'as large as many towers.'  Yet Item 2 states '..because it has a smaller cabinet volume than a tower extending to the floor.'  These seem to be at odds with one another.

It needs to be clarified.  There are many towers that are a lot bigger than the SAM.  Basically, it's referring to the Super Alnico XRS which has more cabinet volume and a larger frontal area.