[rif]

Looking for genuine/quality cable, both patch and bulk. I'm not looking for anything marketed at audiophiles. Cables will be used for routers, AP points, etc.

Why am I asking? I read an article on arstechnica.com that shows many cables don't live up to  cat6 (or even 5e) spec.  Testing was done by bluejeanscable.   I could just buy bluejeanscable but I'd like to look at others.

[Peter J]

rif, it seems we're on the same path. I read the same article on Blue Jeans, who I  like and trust.

 I considered buying bulk from Blue Jeans, price was fine, but all they offer is bonded pair typically used on patch cables. From what I was able to gather, it would work fine, but a PIA to work with and honestly, it's probably overkill, by a significant margin. I suspect their proprietary Cat6 cable is similar to Belden 1872a.

After much reading I settled on Belden 2412 for structured wiring. Typically only in box or spool quantities. I may get patch cables from Blue Jeans. Best deal I found for more than I need  was here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/262143271669?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

If you're looking for plenum cable or a box instead of spool, look at his other auctions. Freight seems excessive at first blush, but overall cost is still way better than anything else I found. I'll build a spool spinner to dispense, box would be easier for most folks, I imagine.

 As an aside, I've always been a little puzzled by "make offer" option on eBay, but figured what's the worst that could happen? I offered $60 for the linked cable and it was immediately accepted, I assume through some preset minimum mechanism. So if you go that route, shoot lower and see what happens. Maybe could have gotten it cheaper...C'est la vie!

[tvyankee]

Hey.

The only bad thing about make an offer is if they accept and you end up not wanting or something happens and you don't but they can leave you legit bad feedback. I think if you read the make an offer rules you are entering into a contact sort of.

Good luck

[Peter J]

Hey.

The only bad thing about make an offer is if they accept and you end up not wanting or something happens and you don't but they can leave you legit bad feedback. I think if you read the make an offer rules you are entering into a contact sort of.

Good luck

Hmmm, no different than any Buy-It-Now or auction, right? I don't and wouldn't encourage others to make offers they aren't willing to stand behind.

What I don't get is why set up your sale like that? If one is willing to sell for a lower price, why not just list for that price in the Buy it now? Strikes me as being almost solely opportunistic...if buyer is willing seller will take advantage. Nothing absolutely wrong with that, I just don't agree in principle. I buy and sell lots of things, it's not really like a negotiation, but then the advent of eBay and online auctions in general sort of changed the landscape.

[jea48]

Looking for genuine/quality cable, both patch and bulk. I'm not looking for anything marketed at audiophiles. Cables will be used for routers, AP points, etc.

Why am I asking? I read an article on arstechnica.com that shows many cables don't live up to  cat6 (or even 5e) spec.  Testing was done by bluejeanscable.   I could just buy bluejeanscable but I'd like to look at others.

Belden is a good cable brand.

As for where to buy? You should be able to buy in bulk locally in your area. And there is a good chance at wholesale.

As for name brand manufactures of CAT6 or CAT6a not meeting spec I would strongly disagree. The problem is not the twisted 4 pair cable whether shielded or non shielded but rather how the cable is installed, terminated, were the correct ends used, there in were CAT 6 ends used or were CAT 5e used, and what brand, manufacture of ends were used. I prefer Panduit manufacture/brand.

Here is a thread from earlier this year that may help.

 http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?htech&1421239386&openusid&zz

Anixter
https://www.anixter.com/en_us.html

[Peter J]

Belden is a good cable brand.

As for where to buy? You should be able to buy in bulk locally in your area. And there is a good chance at wholesale.

As for name brand manufactures of CAT6 or CAT6a not meeting spec I would strongly disagree. The problem is not the twisted 4 pair cable whether shielded or non shielded but rather how the cable is installed, terminated, were the correct ends used, there in were CAT 6 ends used or were CAT 5e used, and what brand, manufacture of ends were used. I prefer Panduit manufacture/brand.

Here is a thread from earlier this year that may help.

 http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?htech&1421239386&openusid&zz

Anixter
https://www.anixter.com/en_us.html

Jea, my takeaway from the spiel on Blue Jeans was that patch cable assemblies were where the testing was concentrated...not cabling in general. I imagine the actual cable of reputable companies is meeting spec., but considering the profit potential there's gonna be not-so-reputable companies selling whatever to capture the price conscious buyer...happens with darn near everything.

Their findings would certainly support your assertions about termination integrity. I'm guessing that even though they will sell bulk cable, they're not actively pushing it because that product is really a commodity in which lowest price largely wins. The certified assemblies are where you can measure and guarantee end result. Structured wiring within a house is gonna leave the overall integrity to the installer...pretty much a wildcard.

I guess the above is more of a commentary on the industry than anything else, FWIW.

[LostInPA]

I noticed an improvement when I replaced Gigaware CAT5e (from BestBuy) with Belden 1874A CAT6.   I purchased two terminated lengths at a reasonable price and with reasonable and fast air postal delivery.   Terminations were clean, neat, and secure.   See http://press.diyhifisupply.com/spdif-interconnect/    If the link does not work, go to www.diyhifisupply.com/ and select Cable and Wires, then scroll down to Catalog (Digital Cable).

[tvyankee]

Guy's

Just to clear some things up. Patch cable is a cable that you move all the time. like one that you connect to your work computer that you move around alot and then disconnect it wrap it up stick it in your bag or in a data center where you have a patch field and your moving data around through the patch field to different ports. The patch cable are almost always made of stranded cable because stranded cable does not break as easy at the point of termination.

As for solid cable that should be almost always if not always punched down not crimped. You can crimp it but you better make sure the rj45 plug is one for solid cable and that the one for stranded cable is for stranded cable.  Solid core cable that is terminated with a rj45 plug even if its a cat6 plug almost never really makes spec. it may at fist but when you start to move it around a lot it will not soon after that.

Solid core cable really is for in wall perminnate installs and for cables that will not be moved. Usually everything outside the walls and stuff that gets moved around should be stranded.

The other thing is make sure any cable you buy is PURE Copper not CCA. CCA is now illegal. I have had luck with vendor as he sells quality stuff.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAT6E-CMR-Ethernet-Cable-White-1000FT-NO-SPLINE-550MHz-23-AWG-Copper-NOT-CCA-/121743833825?hash=item1c587f7ae1

I know a lot of people know this but i figured i clear some things up in case they didn't.

Hope this helps.

[jea48]

Guy's

Just to clear some things up. Patch cable is a cable that you move all the time. like one that you connect to your work computer that you move around alot and then disconnect it wrap it up stick it in your bag or in a data center where you have a patch field and your moving data around through the patch field to different ports. The patch cable are almost always made of stranded cable because stranded cable does not break as easy at the point of termination.


As for solid cable that should be almost always if not always punched down not crimped. You can crimp it but you better make sure the rj45 plug is one for solid cable and that the one for stranded cable is for stranded cable.  Solid core cable that is terminated with a rj45 plug even if its a cat6 plug almost never really makes spec. it may at fist but when you start to move it around a lot it will not soon after that.

Solid core cable really is for in wall perminnate installs and for cables that will not be moved. Usually everything outside the walls and stuff that gets moved around should be stranded.

The other thing is make sure any cable you buy is PURE Copper not CCA. CCA is now illegal. I have had luck with vendor as he sells quality stuff.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAT6E-CMR-Ethernet-Cable-White-1000FT-NO-SPLINE-550MHz-23-AWG-Copper-NOT-CCA-/121743833825?hash=item1c587f7ae1

I know a lot of people know this but i figured i clear some things up in case they didn't.

Hope this helps.

Agree.

And just to add don't mix categories. If the in wall cabling is CAT6 use CAT6 connectors, patch panel, and patch cables/cords. Also do not buy patch cords any longer than you need. Long patch cords that are way longer than is needed  and then coiled in a small radius coil can cause errors. Same goes for in wall cabling. Do not tightly coil up excess cable at the wall jack end or the patch panel end.

Keep patch cords up off the floor so they can not be walked on. Just walking on the cable can cause the lay of the twisted pairs to change. 

[lokie]

Supra Cat7+ Ethernet cable

[Peter J]

Since on the subject of cabling and terminations, I'm curious about opinions on the EZ RJ45 system vs. conventional type.

 Long time ago, I outfitted myself (I remodel houses)with some decent tools for low voltage work, largely phone and cable which I needed good ways to deal with. At that time I bought a GMP crimper, which was considered a really solid tool. A few years ago I ran across the EZ RJ45 and, thinking I was getting something that was improved over what was commonly available, I bought their best crimper and some connectors.

in my latest round of "research", I've run across info since which makes me question if converting ( I still have GMP) was a good idea. They do indeed install faster for the occasional user and the ability to pull cables through plug certainly limits untwisted wire length within plug. Issue is typically said to be the bare ends of wire this system leaves.

Opinions appreciated.

[rif]

Here's  the article.  Please, please, please don't turn this thread into an audio/audiophile one. Lets keep it IT.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/07/340-audiophile-ethernet-cable-gets-a-marginal-pass-on-the-test-bench/

Denke's comment on Cable Matters cable from Amazon (Denke is from bluejeanscable )

"This is quite typical of Chinese Cat 6 that we see, most of which does not pass 5e," elaborated Denke. "We find that the fault is almost always in the cable, rather than the terminations—if we re-terminate the cable we generally get little or no improvement."

Note that this is the opposite of jea48 statement. Now I'm not saying either is right/wrong, but to me seems like we cannot generalize.

According to the bluejeanscable site, the test every cable before it leaves.  Maybe I'll pay a premium and stick with them, it's not like I'm wiring up a high rise office.

[srb]

Since on the subject of cabling and terminations, I'm curious about opinions on the EZ RJ45 system vs. conventional type.  Opinions appreciated.

I've seen them, but not used them.  Do the EZ Cat6 plugs have two rows of staggered wire channels as opposed to a single row as in Cat5 connectors?  If not, they may not pass certification.  I only have a tester that checks continuity, shorts, reversed pairs, etc., not a performance analyzer, so the actual performance aspect is always an unknown.

I had also read about some random shorting on the exposed wire ends, but I'm not sure what kind of jack configuration would allow this to happen.

Steve

[Peter J]

I've seen them, but not used them.  Do the EZ Cat6 plugs have two rows of staggered wire channels as opposed to a single row as in Cat5 connectors?  If not, they may not pass certification.  I only have a tester that checks continuity, shorts, reversed pairs, etc., not a performance analyzer, so the actual performance aspect is always an unknown.

I had also read about some random shorting on the exposed wire ends, but I'm not sure what kind of jack configuration would allow this to happen.

Steve

Steve, I'll know in a few days for sure as I have some on the way. The only connectors I have on hand are for cat5e. They do have separate part numbers, so there must be some difference. But I can't say with certainty right now.

[tvyankee]

Guys.

The ez system works but for the occasional user. After doing a lot of ends the blade that cuts the wire dulls and then when you insert the cable into a router or switch they start to push out because the crimper is not making a clean cut anymore.

For the pro the old connector type is the way to go.

As far as certifies go the real ones start at 7000 and go up from there. They are great tools and even better when you know the pit falls but if your messing with the cables a lot you  can fall out of certification. But it is a nice way to start.

[jea48]

Here's  the article.  Please, please, please don't turn this thread into an audio/audiophile one. Lets keep it IT.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/07/340-audiophile-ethernet-cable-gets-a-marginal-pass-on-the-test-bench/

Denke's comment on Cable Matters cable from Amazon (Denke is from bluejeanscable )

"This is quite typical of Chinese Cat 6 that we see, most of which does not pass 5e," elaborated Denke. "We find that the fault is almost always in the cable, rather than the terminations—if we re-terminate the cable we generally get little or no improvement."

Note that this is the opposite of jea48 statement. Now I'm not saying either is right/wrong, but to me seems like we cannot generalize.

According to the bluejeanscable site, the test every cable before it leaves.  Maybe I'll pay a premium and stick with them, it's not like I'm wiring up a high rise office.

Note that this is the opposite of jea48 statement. Now I'm not saying either is right/wrong, but to me seems like we cannot generalize.

Note I said name brand manufacture, like Belden.
Who buys Chinese CAT6 cable? 

According to the bluejeanscable site, the test every cable before it leaves.  Maybe I'll pay a premium and stick with them, it's not like I'm wiring up a high rise office.

In the long run unless you know what you are doing that may end the cheaper way to go.
Just don't buy cables considerably longer than you need and coil up the excess in a small diameter coil. 

Something else the cable was tested and certified after it was made up by Bluejeans. The manner in which you install the cable can change the test results.

[mcgsxr]

I am in no way unhappy with the Cat6 cables I bought from Monoprice.

Perhaps the tests would show that I should be.

But, for what I use network cable for, it is proving excellent.

[Peter J]

Agree.

And just to add don't mix categories. If the in wall cabling is CAT6 use CAT6 connectors, patch panel, and patch cables/cords. Also do not buy patch cords any longer than you need. Long patch cords that are way longer than is needed  and then coiled in a small radius coil can cause errors. Same goes for in wall cabling. Do not tightly coil up excess cable at the wall jack end or the patch panel end.

Keep patch cords up off the floor so they can not be walked on. Just walking on the cable can cause the lay of the twisted pairs to change.

I'm wondering what would the net effect be of having, say, cat6 cabling and infrastructure and then using a cat5e rated patch cable. I assume that would limit potential for attached device, but would it have some effect on entire network?

[jea48]

I'm wondering what would the net effect be of having, say, cat6 cabling and infrastructure and then using a cat5e rated patch cable. I assume that would limit potential for attached device, but would it have some effect on entire network?

>>>>>>>

Quote from link below:

You must never mix Cat5 and Cat6 cables on the same network. The network speed will be limited by the lowest grade of cable installed within it. Therefore, if you outfit your network using Category 6 cabling, make sure you’re using exclusively Cat6 and nothing else.

DO: Limit the length of your cable runs to 300 feet or less to avoid problems
DO NOT: Mix Category 5 and Category 6 cables on the same network

 DO: Bend the cable gradually when needed and never exceed a 1” bend radius
DO NOT: Untwist more than ½” of each wire pair when building your own cables

 DO: Keep your cables away from any potential sources of EMI/RFI
DO NOT: Use heavy pressure when using zip ties for cable management

 DO: Always use Category 6 rated jacks with Category 6 cabling
DO NOT: Ever under any circumstance splice or bridge a Cat5e or Cat6 cable

 DO: Always accommodate at least 5 feet of slack in each cable whenever possible
DO NOT: Use standard stapes to secure Cat5 or Cat6 cabling as damage can result

 DO: If you build your own cables, always verify them with a tester
DO NOT: Ever tug or pull excessively on a networking cable

You will need to copy and paste the entire Link.
http://www.cablesondemand.com/InfoID/320/RedirectPath/Add1/FolderID/668/
InfoGroup/Main/InfoType/Article/PageVars/Library/InfoManage/Zoom.htm

>>>>>>>>>>

Quote from Link below:

The Time Domain Reflectometry (TDR) test is used not only to determine length, but also to identify the distance to link faults such as shorts and opens. Other techniques for cable length measurement, such as capacitance and DC resistance, are unable to report the distance to a short or open.

When a cable tester makes a TDR measurement, it sends a pulse signal into a wire pair and measures the amount of time required for the pulse to return on the same wire pair. When the pulse encounters a variation in impedance, such as an open, short, or poor connection, some portion of the pulse energy is reflected back to the tester. The tester measures the elapsed time between when the pulse was sent and when the reflection was received. In addition to the comparatively large echo or reflection from the end of the cable (open circuit), smaller echoes may be detected that represent impedance changes in the link due to other forms of poor connections or defects in the cable.

The size of the reflected pulse is proportional to the change in impedance. Thus, a large change in impedance, such as a short, causes a large reflection; a small impedance change, such as a poor connection, creates a smaller reflection.

If a returning echo is larger than a threshold setting (the default is typically about 15 percent of the transmitted pulse), it displays the calculated distance to the echo source. These small echoes are called anomalies and are caused by cable faults of varying severity. Most testers display more than one distance: the distance to the end of the link as well as one or two anomalies along the way. Some of the faults that cause an echo reflection include poor connections, mixed-impedance cable segments, cable stubs, crushed cable, and severe kinks or over-tight tie-wraps. Cable test tools with high sensitivity are able to show a TDR plot that allows the user to see all anomalies along the length of the link.

"Some of the faults that cause an echo reflection include poor connections, mixed-impedance cable segments, cable stubs, crushed cable, and severe kinks or over-tight tie-wraps. Cable test tools with high sensitivity are able to show a TDR plot that allows the user to see all anomalies along the length of the link."
[/I]
http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1403240&seqNum=3

Quote from Link below:

Fail, *fail, or *pass        Possible Cause of Result

• Patch cord impedence not 100 ohms
• Patch cord mishandling causes changes in impedence
• Installation practices (untwists or kinks of cable – the original
twists should be maintained as much as possible for each wire pair)
 • Excessive amount of cable jammed into the Telecom Outlet box
• Bad connector
• Cable impedance not uniform
• Cable not 100 ohm
• Impedance mismatch at junction between patch cable and
horizontal cable
• Poorly matched plug and jack
• Use of 120 ohm cable
 • Service loops in telecommunications closet
• Inappropriate autotest selected
• Defective link adapter

• Excessive amount of cable jammed into the Telecom Outlet box
• Service loops in telecommunications closet
[/I]
http://www.flukenetworks.com/findit/en-us/3346303
Open PDF file at bottom of page. See page 10.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

All reasons why ethernet network cabling should first be installed, terminated, and then tested and certified.   

[rif]

Note I said name brand manufacture, like Belden.
Who buys Chinese CAT6 cable? 

I know I'm a little late to ask, but besides Belden, what brands are good? And are they manufactured outside of China?