[mick wolfe]

"Is vinyl's sonic superiority a hoax?"

Anyone who thinks it might be a hoax has never experienced vinyl done right, or they wouldn't ask the question!

 

[rollo]

  No hoax at all. A PIA, expensive however when done right can be great just like digital done right. Which one is better ? Both are in certain ways.


charles

[twitch54]

Wow, a six year old thread and still being debated !! damn near laughable !!   

[FullRangeMan]

  No hoax at all. A PIA, expensive however when done right can be great just like digital done right. Which one is better ? Both are in certain ways.


charles

+1
I have listened vinyl, CD, SACD and DVD-A in good systems in friends house and after all these years of reflection I could add vinyl are the best format to show art cover, the best sound are SACD format, second by DVD audios, CD and Blu specs CD have similar sound quality, with wear and so much friction noise vinyl is not able to have hi-end sound quality, but people like the ritual of listening them and with that euphonic sound full of harmonics it pleases a lot of people, but now there is streamer and audio files.

[Craig B]

Wow, a six year old thread and still being debated !! damn near laughable !!   

As if it would ever be "settled." 

[lancruiser_]

Historically speaking 33.3/45 vinyl was marketed as a "cheaper" alternative to open reel releases which were and still are expensive, the vinyl format served a useful purpose (providing music to folks who did not want the expense of open reel tape). Open reel machines were and still are expensive. Considering the technology at the time, vinyl was also somewhat portable. We all wore out our vinyl and annoyed our parents with our vinyl choices and portable players, I have no excuses here. I do still enjoy vinyl but only for "cool" cover art, packaging or if it is the only format offered for music I enjoy. For my preference digital is superior in every aspect that counts; fidelity, dynamic range, portability, freedom from the problems of vinyl ( I could list about 30 or so to start). The current resurgence on vinyl is due to a few issues; the original "sin" of content providers and their sycophants trying to once again to sell you something you probably already own (money), almost zero accountability of self appointed reviewers, gurus and supposed technical "experts" (influence) to say anything they want without offering objective proof. One cruel truth is that most folks have poorly performing loudspeakers (stored energy, resonances, etc) which vinyl, tubes with their limited bandwidth and response times somewhat mitigates. Early digital recordings certainly had their issues (mainly due to recording engineers applying analog techniques) some of which recording digitally is unforgiving of (coming close to or exceeding 0dbfs to start). Long story short, digital recording and mastering performed properly is a mature technology and will only get better, the vast majority of modern releases are recorded and mastered digitally and will continue to be. The "lie" concerning vinyl has been repeated so often that folks who don't know better believe it. When one thinks about; it vinyl costs at least twice the price of a digital release, is not easily replicated to be portable, wears out with every play, has less potential dynamic range, has all the variables and problems of mechanical playback, why bother? There is one excellent thing about this vinyl resurgence, I have been able to find a LOT of cool titles on digital formats for cheap prices so maybe I should not complain too much about this vinyl nonsense. I would like to see the FTC will once again regulate the "snake oil" that pervades in and seems to be unique to the audiophile industry. I welcome your thoughts and comments (keep them civil please). One thing I hope we can all agree on is that I am weary of listening to music at home, I am looking forward to experiencing live music soon and very often.

[dB Cooper]

lancruiser summed up my position better than I could for the most part, but here goes anyway. Vinyl can sound better than it has any right to, but isn't worth the trouble to me. I saw a video claiming that vinyl wear was a "myth" that doesn't happen with proper record care. My experience in almost 50 years in the 'hobby' and at shows- where snap-crackle-pop is the norm- suggests otherwise. (The idea that the stylus tip, made out of the hardest substance known, wears out, but the vinyl media vinyl doesn't, is absurd on its face.).

All that said, a well done digital recording (it is possible to do it badly) just crushes analog for me- vinyl sounds murky and indistinct to me by comparison. Vinyl setups have very distinct 'signatures' which provide something to fetish over, but for transparency and fidelity, digital trounces it it every way imaginable. First rate digital is not 'glassy', 'hard' , or 'sterile'. You just hear more- including problems with the recording, including poorly done transfers of analog recordings (which most are). That isn't the playback system's fault- it's just doing its job, which is to play whatever is put through it without addition or subtraction. Like the line in the science fiction novel: "The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off."

I have no problem with anyone utilizing technology which at its core dates back to Thomas Edison, but I'll stick with digital.

[dB Cooper]

Wow, a six year old thread and still being debated !! damn near laughable !!   

Don't you worry, it will still be debated six years from now. Some of us probably even have posts in here that we don't recall making 

[dpatters]

I don’t worry about formats. I just play the music I want to listen to regardless.

Don P

[Tom Bombadil]

All that said, a well done digital recording (it is possible to do it badly) just crushes analog for me ...

I have no problem with anyone utilizing technology which at its core dates back to Thomas Edison, but I'll stick with digital.

Well stated.  I've been into audio for almost 50 years and have owned many turntables over the years, but am in total agreement with you.   I don't play much vinyl today and don't expect to in the future. 

[Tyson]

I listen mostly to classical music.  The digital recordings done in the 80's and the 90's were hit and miss, but most were meh. 

Since around 2000, and especially since 2010, almost every classical recording is excellent.  I go to Qobuz new releases every Friday and listen to all the new releases throughout the week and I rarely encounter a recording that's less than excellent.  Digital has come a long way, indeed.

[mcsnare]

Digital is more accurate, vinyl has a vibe. I like both for different reasons, but I listen mainly to vinyl for pleasure. I hear digital all day for my work.

[FullRangeMan]

Digital is more accurate, vinyl has a vibe. I like both for different reasons, but I listen mainly to vinyl for pleasure. I hear digital all day for my work.

You are a lucky guy, I listen MP3 all the time in my work, sound are worse than cassete tapes, barely possible understand the words.

[mcsnare]

I might be in the minority but I don’t think mp3 is that bad - certainly above 256k. When you get to 320, it’s not so easy to pick a full res wav as better. But I can make this statement from a level matched, button switched, A/B in my studio. It’s harder to make a valid comparison on a home system.

[Folsom]

I probably replied to this before, and will probably somewhat ignore it after...

Digital isn't even remotely close to approach vinyl yet. I mean... NOT EVEN CLOSE. There's so many reasons... hard to go over.

[kingdeezie]

I used to have a pretty decent analog set-up. It was a VPI Prime, a Pass XP-15, and a Dynavector 17D3. Not world class, but decent.

Right now, I am fully digital. I've been through a Meitner MA-1, PS Audio Perfectwave, Schitt Yggy, and now a Mytek Manhattan II. Most of them have been fed by a Mutec M3+ reclocking device. I have used various sources as well.

I have never been able to match the transparency and openness of vinyl in my digital rig. There always seems to be, to varying degrees, something in the "way." I can't describe it accurately. Its like the sonic image is slightly out of focus or hazy.

I hear the same issue in other's systems as well.

I don't know if its that digital is more susceptible to noise, vibrations, or jitter, but its something I haven't been able to alleviate, or heard alleviated.   

[FullRangeMan]

I don't know if its that digital is more susceptible to noise, vibrations, or jitter, but its something I haven't been able to alleviate, or heard alleviated.

You will need an DAC with various wave forms or eq options as some DSD machines along adjusting for Jitter and Dither as the old Rotel CD-991, these features are something the big manufacturers are not prone to offer to the home audio even at a cost. The RIAA eq curve do a fantastique eq job with the vinyl sound.

[timind]

Don't you worry, it will still be debated six years from now. Some of us probably even have posts in here that we don't recall making 

I'm sure I posted back on the first few pages of this thread, but not looking for it. Hope I'm still able to log in 6 years from now.

Oh, and I'm sure I'll not be listening to vinyl, not even occasionally like I do now.