[Rocket_Ronny]

Interesting thread and viewpoints.

Having been heavily in the analogue camp with many different turntables including a Oracle Delphi, Alpheson 1000s titanium arm - among many like Syrinx PU3 / Grace / Rega, Electro Research EK1 Strain Guage cartridge system - among several other cartridges like Dynavector Ruby / Grados etc.,  I can easily say I don't miss it at all except for some of the music that was only on vinyl and those albums that were mastered for vinyl that have not translated that well into digital. Is that really all in one sentence?

Rocket_Digitized_Ronny

[simoon]

Interesting thread and viewpoints.

... except for some of the music that was only on vinyl and those albums that were mastered for vinyl that have not translated that well into digital. Is that really all in one sentence?

That is exactly the reason why I will always have a vinyl rig.

I have a fairly large collection of pretty rare Italian, French, Spanish, and German prog-rock vinyl from the 70's. Some of it (especially the Italian stuff) is worth a lot of $$$. The problem is, the only CD versions available are vinyl transfers, as many of he masters were lost or destroyed.

Also, I have a large collection of mid 20th Century avantgarde classical (most of it on the Nonesuch and Sarabande labels) that has never been releases on CD. There is digital downloads of some of it, but only MP3, it would sadly seem.

If I did not have a way to play the vinyl, I would be relegated to demonstrably inferior sound quality vinyl transfers and MP3 files.

And since this music is way too important to me to have the sound quality so compromised, I will always own a TT.

And, no, it is NOT a nostalgia thing with me. When it comes to music, I have zero nostalgia connected to it.

[brother love]

Thanks RPM123 for the John Darko 6moons article link.  I frequently enjoy his take on all things audio, & this article is no exception. I think he is spot on in his findings & sums it up well in closing:

"The conventional wisdom so often funneled via the mainstream press says that few things sound better than vinyl. This is half truth at best. Getting an analogue front end that’ll provide superior sound to a decent digital streamer and DAC takes thousands of dollars and remains well beyond the financial reach of most millennials and thirty-somethings. Is it therefore not more reasonable to conclude that it is the experience surrounding vinyl’s purchase and playback, and not sound quality itself, which drives its present-day revival?"

Many artists like Jack White are into vintage equipment & vinyl. He started cutting records in his time with The White Stripes. He now has 3rd Man Records in Nashville, & cuts records for many artists. It is a groundswell of artists bucking the norm & going back to the roots of music.

Vinyl is all about the "eye candy" what with album cover art, turntable designs, watching the record spin round & round.  Younger folks congregating at a record store listening & looking for music with like-minded folks is a often a nostalgic/ throw-back to experiencing what their parents & prior generations did. Kind of a rite of passage maybe ?

All that aside, if someone has $1,000 or less, the digital format is a superior quality choice vs. vinyl if you have to choose. I held on to a AR turntable with Premier MMT tonearm for a long time after CD players first came out. I added a CD player after their sound improved from initial dry, analytical sound.  3 years ago, I purchased a Mac Mini, DAC/preamp with tube, USB/SPDIF converter & loved the sound so much, I transferred all my stuff to .wav files & sold all the vinyl & related equipment. I miss it some, but love being able to access my entire library from listening position. I love not fighting with temperamental equipment & spending more time enjoying higher quality sound. But I still love going to record stores & looking at albums. 

It's a sonic journey. Whether it's sold state or tubes, analog or digital, etc., etc. ... it's all fun!

[Freo-1]

This cartoon pretty much nails it....

  


Listening to classical on vinyl is painful.  Give me a quality SACD recording any day of the week.

[SteveFord]

It's been a long work week so it's time to do the only sensible thing:
fill up my pipe, get a cup of coffee, warm up the tubes and listen to an album or two.

[a.wayne]

You can Drink coffee this late ........   

[a.wayne]

All that aside, if someone has $1,000 or less, the digital format is a superior quality choice vs. vinyl if you have to choose. I held on to a AR turntable with Premier MMT tonearm for a long time after CD players first came out. I added a CD player after their sound improved from initial dry, analytical sound.  3 years ago, I purchased a Mac Mini, DAC/preamp with tube, USB/SPDIF converter & loved the sound so much, I transferred all my stuff to .wav files & sold all the vinyl & related equipment. I miss it some, but love being able to access my entire library from listening position. I love not fighting with temperamental equipment & spending more time enjoying higher quality sound. But I still love going to record stores & looking at albums. 

It's a sonic journey. Whether it's sold state or tubes, analog or digital, etc., etc. ... it's all fun!

The cartridge and phono stage is very important , if the 1K budget includes everything i could agree that digital could be superior , a 7K phono/ TT  setup will trounce most digital regardless of Cost.  Again Speaker type being  used is very important and I'm talking with well recorded large scale music, not the typical sorry stuff and electronic music...



Regards

[bunky]

I like both Digital and Vinyl. for the past seven days I have been listening to the just released Schitt Bifrost Multi bit and frankly I can not believe how good this low cost Spartan looking solid state DAC sounds. on the other hand after spending several hours in the VPI room at Capital Audio Fest 2015 I am getting ready to purchase a VPI Prime turntable. I don't feel that one format is superior to the other.

[GentleBender]

It's been a long work week so it's time to do the only sensible thing:
fill up my pipe, get a cup of coffee, warm up the tubes and listen to an album or two.

Cheers to that! It was so much work to put the record on the platter and drop that heavy needle tonight.  Let's enjoy the music however we can tonight, isn't that what this is about? I wish I could access the "more" emoticons on my iPad running iOS 9  so that I could do the beer toast.

[Letitroll98]

I dunno, I disagree with the notion you need a mega buck rig to beat redbook digital.  Back in the early days of ceedee and my audio journey, I had a modest Thorens table and some consumer CDP, either a Technics or JVC (I remember having both, can't recall the timeline) and it was quite clear then that lp's were superior in overall sound quality.  And we were hyped up to think that ceedee's were perfect sound forever, they just weren't.  As my rig became more mature digital sound improved, but so did my vinyl rig.  Today with hi res digital it's much more unclear of course, but while I still enjoy listening to redbook digital, it simply doesn't match vinyl in sound quality.

[Guy 13]

Hi all,
I think the problem is mainly because some want all the time the best, it's an obsession.
I am sure at one time, vinyl was good to them, ben then came something else (CD)
them came HiRez files via some media...
At one time, I've owned and Linn LP12 with Naim amplifier, then I kept my LP12 and addeda Naim CD player..
Today I have a Rega P3 and a Rega Apollo and I am satisfied with both.
Which one is better ? None, they are different...
To me it look like today for some it's an obsession to look and get always the best,
I feel sorry for them, because they will never, never be satisfied with what they  have acquired.
Well they might be satisfied for some time,
but then, something else will be available and they will jump on it to satisfy their thirst for owning the best...

Guy 13

[FullRangeMan]

I dunno, I disagree with the notion you need a mega buck rig to beat redbook digital.  Back in the early days of ceedee and my audio journey, I had a modest Thorens table and some consumer CDP, either a Technics or JVC (I remember having both, can't recall the timeline) and it was quite clear then that lp's were superior in overall sound quality.  And we were hyped up to think that ceedee's were perfect sound forever, they just weren't.  As my rig became more mature digital sound improved, but so did my vinyl rig.  Today with hi res digital it's much more unclear of course, but while I still enjoy listening to redbook digital, it simply doesn't match vinyl in sound quality.

Maybe it was Technics SLP-3.
I dont agree w/you because the various surface noises prevent vinyl to have top class sound, but at least you dont offend others members.

I noted many vinyl owners are afraid to play all these acres of virgin black expensive 180g by wear out fear, under penalty of become unusable state.

[dminches]

Maybe it was Technics SLP-3.
I dont agree w/you because the various surface noises prevent vinyl to have top class sound, but at least you dont offend others members.

Any records that are taken care of and cleaned with a wet vacuum cleaner such as a VPI 16.5 are void of surface noise. That whole knock on vinyl is so overblown.

[Phil A]

When I had my turntable, I had one of these - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Burwen-Research-TNE-7000A-Professional-Transient-Noise-Eliminator-/141011959389

[FullRangeMan]

Any records that are taken care of and cleaned with a wet vacuum cleaner such as a VPI 16.5 are void of surface noise. That whole knock on vinyl is so overblown.

This works on paper of manufacturer manual, dont happen in real life due the laws of physics.
Two solid objects in friction has as result wear and noise.

[rollo]

    LPS wear eventually. No question. That is if they are miss used. Meaning repeated play without pause. IMO the whole argument is flawed.
    IMO the convenience of CD as well as ripping off music is favored over getting up, cleaning LP and getting up after 18 minutes  or so of music. LP;s are expensive compared to CD. I believe the underlying factoid. It is more than sonics.
     Recently digital has closed much of the sonic gaps for cheap Schiit Bitfrost anyone ? The youngin's of today were weened on digital. To them vinyl is a mere vintage medium. I think that is why y'all re cranky.  [ early digital was fatiguing ]
     Both formats have their merits period. Which is better in direct absolute comparison ? Neither so there.

charles
   

[brother love]

neobop,  I think that chip on your shoulder is the size of a log. The burden you must bear ...

[rollo]

   The conversation  here got me stimulated to buy a cart. A Miyajma Shilabe that is. Thanks guys.


charles

[Phil A]

Here's a little white paper (and also will explain why they cost a bit more) on wear and tear of LPs which has been around for a long time.  It takes so much more care (and patience - I still remember) for LPs than for digital formats - http://shure.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4135/~/stylus-wear-and-record-wear

[geowak]

Here's a little white paper (and also will explain why they cost a bit more) on wear and tear of LPs which has been around for a long time.  It takes so much more care (and patience - I still remember) for LPs than for digital formats - http://shure.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4135/~/stylus-wear-and-record-wear

Phil,
Very informative and enlightening article. Thanks for providing a positive and constructive post to this thread.
Why not keep ALL the audio equipment in high regard. It's hard enough keeping the luv for high fidelity music as something relevant, something worthwhile. Whether one listens to ipods or hi-fi, is this not just appreciation for the enjoyment of "listening to music"? Yeah sometimes I feel it sounds like two children fighting over who has the best toy.. kinda childish. I would rather read posts sharing info like yours here or even who makes a great dac or tt, even the suggestions from owners of low budget models. That can be great info.