[GentleBender]

I didn't tell him to go over to AVS and never comeback. It's possible to participate in more than one forum.

That's just not how it comes across by reading it. It reads like you are questioning why he is here. I'm sure Macrojack is more than capable of finding his own way. Not trying to start anything, just thought it came off as disrespectful.

[simoon]

Matters not if the music I like(95+%) is not available on vinyl...

And for the record, in most rigs where I did like the vinyl source vs the digital, the vinyl rig cost  dwarfs the digital cost. The most lopsided, the digital cost 12K+ vs the vinyl where the cartridge alone cost almost 9K, add in the turntable @ 16k, the arm @ 15K, the stand for the table at 8K...not a fair fight.

The thread is not about which is more cost effective. The discussion, is which can sound better.

I would agree, that for vinyl to approach digital in sound quality, it does cost more.

I have no horse in the race, since I enjoy both digital and analog in my audio system.

[rajacat]

That's just not how it comes across by reading it. It reads like you are questioning why he is here. I'm sure Macrojack is more than capable of finding his own way. Not trying to start anything, just thought it came off as disrespectful.

OK, no disrespect meant. However, why come onto an audio forum and proclaim that you're not interested in hifi and you might sell your system? Just leave quietly instead dumping of the negativity on us or choose participate in the non audio threads.

[smk]

No,it's not superior. Maybe in the daze CD spinners first came out. But DACs have since come a long ways. I have not owned a turntable or CD spinner in many moons. I have an audio/music server these days.

[GentleBender]

OK, no disrespect meant. However, why come onto an audio forum and proclaim that you're not interested in hifi and you might sell your system? Just leave quietly instead dumping of the negativity on us or choose participate in the non audio threads.

No sweat rajacat. I can relate to him. I used to play video games nonstop not long ago, but then started slipping away. Now I still try to keep up with the current news and play the occasional new game. That doesn't mean I won't come back to it later as life seems to come and go in stages. At least for me. 

[jamesg11]

JD's original article on 6moons (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/vu/1.html) had an attention grabbing moniker - which this discussion has pursued, at the expense of his core observations re the superiority of digital at a low cost point. It was about where the cost-SQ curves of digital & vinyl met & diverged, with an eye on the burgeoning popularity of vinyl with younger buyers.

[JerryM]

 

[S Clark]

It's a bit off track for this thread, but I certainly enjoy the "hunt" for collectable vinyl... is their such a thing as collectable digital??  I've got signed copies from Ellington, Arthur Rubenstein, Roy Eldridge, to the Indigo Girls.  How do you sign a download?  Running across deals for fine copies of early Miles, Rollins, RCA shaded dogs, early Mercuries keeps me dropping by the record stores. 

[geowak]

I'd like to add another layer to this..... debate or discussion. This is something a friend of mine who owns a record store told me.
Many music lovers can remember music they liked in the past. Let's say the 60s. Let's say the 70s. You had an old record player or maybe a console stereo where you played those favorite albums. Maybe a Marantz or Pioneer with JBL speakers.  Dylan, Beach Boys, Beatles, Floyd, Sinatra.... the list goes on and on. The whole experience are great memories.

It's in your memory and it's cool. That really comes into play with albums. Cassette tapes, eight tracks, reel to reel recorders have not come back, but albums have.

So I have to say, albums are a great way to ENJOY the past. The Volkswagon Bug came back, the Camaro came back and so has afros. Stuff comes back like boomerangs. But I say it must exist with recent stuff.... like digital. Why not both?... Some of the audiophiles have the money for both. Go for it and keep on truckin.

[megabigeye]

JD's original article on 6moons (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/vu/1.html) had an attention grabbing moniker - which this discussion has pursued, at the expense of his core observations re the superiority of digital at a low cost point. It was about where the cost-SQ curves of digital & vinyl met & diverged, with an eye on the burgeoning popularity of vinyl with younger buyers.

Thank you for pointing that out.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised that this discussion took the turn that it did, but it is a little disappointing.  Whatever.  It was kind of amusing, anyway.

John Darko's point is if it's between listening to vinyl on something like a Crosley or streaming 64Mbps Pandora, they're both going to sound pretty wretched.  Vinyl is also considerably more expensive than streaming, not to mention less convenient.  And so he wonders, considering most teens and 20-somethings-- who are now buoying vinyl sales-- aren't buying audiophile gear, why are they buying vinyl instead of digital?
This is something I've thought about before and I came to the same conclusion as JD: it's the experience.  And I think that experience is especially important to Millennials who otherwise live in a virtual world of Candy Crush (or whatever they're playing these days) and Twitter and Spotify.

I also think he makes a fair point that a lot of what audiophiles call "warm" and "rich" are conflated with "fuzzy" and "indistinct," especially to the inexperienced and especially at the low end.

He's not really saying that in the audiophile world digital is better than vinyl.  He's saying that at the very, very low end of the spectrum digital sounds less like crap for less money.

[G Georgopoulos]

He's not really saying that in the audiophile world digital is better than vinyl.  He's saying that at the very, very low end of the spectrum digital sounds less like crap for less money.

i dont want to get into this debate again,but to point out,it's really a system thing,digital or vinyl,you have to have the source the amp and most importantly the speakers,digital seems to work well with low end components while vinyl works better with high end components.

[GentleBender]

It's in your memory and it's cool. That really comes into play with albums. Cassette tapes, eight tracks, reel to reel recorders have not come back, but albums have.

Cassettes are making a comeback too! http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2015/09/the-cassette-tapes-comeback.html I'll let them have it though. At least we all have a choice. 

[BobRex]

i dont want to get into this debate again,but to point out,it's really a system thing,digital or vinyl,you have to have the source the amp and most importantly the speakers,digital seems to work well with low end components while vinyl works better with high end components.

In other words, digital works well in a low resolution system, but vinyl really shines as the resolution, SNR, and bandwidth are increased.  Or to put it another way, as the system improves, digital's limitations are more obvious.  This gives additional credence to the idea that vinyl is a higher resolution medium.

[dB Cooper]

Records are fun, plain and simple.  You can clean them in the sink and that $2 original rock album played on dad's old hand me down record player w/new needle, could easily sound better than a crummy digital conversion.  You also get something tactile - a full sized cover with artwork and notes you can actually see.
That's not to mention the hand me down record collection, the treasure trove of moldy oldies that define our musical heritage.

None of that directly has anything to do with sound quality though. Speaking for myself, I have heard many first class vinyl set ups over the years, and owned a few halfway decent ones, and I can tell you that I don't miss it much at all. I don't miss the pops and clicks that I hear even on the ultra high-end setups at the shows. I don't miss the endless installing, leveling, aligning, and tweaking. I don't miss the deterioration of sound quality that seems to take place no matter how carefully I take care of my records, the ritual of stylus cleaning, and I would rather spend the time that I would spend washing records in the sink listening to music. And lastly, I don't miss everything below 500Hz (well above the freq at which the ear discerns direction of sound) being MONO. Others may feel differently and that is fine; I have heard many vinyl setups that I could listen to happily but to me it's just not worth the trouble. There is no resolution to the original question so let's all go listen to some music on the platform of our choice.

[mcgsxr]

No surprise that a thread in the vinyl circle attracts a lot of support from vinyl lovers, especially with respect to an article that puts forward an argument against it at a specific pricing segment.

Glad you're all passionate about what you love.  We all are.

Spin some tunes, and love whatever format floats your boat.

[JLM]

No surprise that a thread in the vinyl circle attracts a lot of support from vinyl lovers, especially with respect to an article that puts forward an argument against it at a specific pricing segment.

Glad you're all passionate about what you love.  We all are.

Spin some tunes, and love whatever format floats your boat.

+1  Love, don't hate.

[a.wayne]

It's been my experience that its the type of speakers being used makes a difference between using digital or analog. Limited bandwidth speaker systems and those short on dynamics tend to favor digital over analog TT.





Regards.. 

[adminRH]

Cool it or this thread will go to Quarantine.

[GentleBender]

Cool it or this thread will go to Quarantine.

We were just playing...

[nickd]

I listen to 95% Digital usually streamed from a Sonos through a PS Audio Direct Stream DAC. It sounds amazing with most content and is easy and fun to use all controlled from my I pad. 10 years ago I would have never imagined the immense access to new music and ease of use. My $3500.00 CD Player has been in a box in the garage for two years.

That said, My phono rig still amazes me every time I spin up a LP. It's a bit like smoking a rack of ribs. a bit of work and time consuming but the flavor and therapeutic value are beyond measure.

Not sure I would spend the money again to have both sources in my system, but it's paid for. The tonal colors, natural warmth and imaging are on a different level from even very good digital. "Sonic Superiority" I suppose. All who have listened to both on my rig say it's easy to hear the difference. Most likely worth discussion too if digital is going to continue to improve. As fuel for argument? I would rather be listening to my rig or pretty much doing anything else.