[S Clark]

Flake meter dropping fast.  Seller seems solid.  Should have the total with shipping later today.

I'm jumping in right behind you.  Got a response and waiting for a quote. I've been looking at the Jelco 750L 12", but the Pioneer might be actually a better option. 

[neobop]

For those getting the PA70.  You might have to adjust the pivot to mounting hole distance slightly, to achieve your favorite alignment.  Most older Japanese arms were designed with Stevenson like nulls.  One of the Loefgren alignments is usually preferred.

From the factory info on page 1:  Eff length = 282mm  overhang = 12.5mm   That gives a mounting distance = 269.5mm
If you mount the arm at 267mm, I'm reasonably sure you'll be able to use whatever alignment you like.  If someone wants to use an SPU type cart (nonadjustable), we can figure it out.

note: An arc protractor is based on a set mounting distance. 
neo

[sunnydaze]

Another thing to keep in mind....

For the PA 70, I notice the phono cable plugs into / exits from the bottom of the arm.  With a straight DIN, be sure the cable you get is soft / pliable enough so you can route it properly.  If bulky and stiff (like many ridic audiophile cables), to achieve clearance you'll need to raise the mounting tower, and correspondingly your TT (to maintain the correct platter-to-mount surface distance).

A 90 degree DIN eliminates this problem, but a different issue arises.  To run the cable to preamp, you'd need to build a sidewall opening into whatever arm tower construction you employ. 

I notice that many outboard mounting pods use a cantilever approach to deal with this cable routing issue.  It also allows easy adjustment of mount distance, and swapping of mounting plates for the various tonearm mount schemes.  But you'd need an awful lot of weight in the base to prevent toppling.  Either that or attach it to your shelf.    I considered this, but it involves working with metal and a machine shop.  And building it was complicated compared to what I settled on.   I'm just a simple guy with limited skills, a front deck and some hand tools, so I used wood.

[sunnydaze]

I've got a nice heavy block of cocobolo as well as lots of curly maple that could make a nice outrigger base.  I'm thinking that a bit of lead shot in a cavity and some of Herbie's grunge buster material might be just the ticket to make sure it doesn't get inadvertently moved.  I could also just copy Sunny's approach and clamp the sucker down.

I had the same concern -- that regardless of the construction, the mounting tower would move and correct mount distance would be lost.  I figured it's much easier to maintain the table's position, so I knew I wanted to solidly attach the tower to my rack.  Didn't wanna mar my butcher block and wasn't sure of permanent location, so I decided against bolts and glue.....at least for now.

If you can get past the visual,  the clamp works great.  I'm not a big tweak guy.  Didn't use any kindof coupling or isolating devices when building my rack.  Just bolted the butcher block and 80-20 together.  My objective was solid, rigid and heavy.  And it is certainly all that!

Same approach w my mounting tower.  Just firmly attached it to my top shelf.  No attempt to couple or isolate with audiodweeb approved devices.  Mass and rigidity is good, right?  I figured that when securely clamped down, the tower effectively becomes part of the rack and assumes it properties.  My rack is rock solid and heavy - gotta be over 350 lbs when loaded with gear!

I did have the thought that airbourne vibrations / resonances would get into the tower through the rack.  But that is theory, and I just rely on what I hear.  Mounted outboard, my arms sound at least as good as when attached to the table as intended. 

Additionally,  the "thump" test is passed with flying colors.  With everything powered on, lower arm onto record, rap on the shelf -- barely anything passed to speakers.   Rap on tower, barely anything passed to speakers.  Glass of water on top shelf - loud bass heavy music -- no ripples seen in the water.  None.

I have suspended wood floors.  I can jump up and down such that entire rack is swinging, and the record still plays without skipping.  Even with my uni-pivot arm.

Just my experience, FWIW.

[S Clark]

Pioneer PA-70 on the way later today!   

[sunnydaze]

My latest effort.   Not the purdiest, but does the job.  Two "L" shaped columns, made with maple butcher block scraps (glued together) from my rack build.  Wood strip across the "lap", clamped firmly to top shelf.  Mount plate is 1/4" acrylic sheet bought on E-bay.  Seller cut it into rectangles for me, so I have several for different arms.  Cheap, easy to drill.  Attached with a bolt in each corner --> threaded inserts into the wood.  Nuts between acrylic and wood to fine tune the height.

As you can see,  no audiophile approved jewelery or accoutrements for coupling / isolation.  Just rock solid construction.     

[ACHiPo]

PA-70 will be shipped tomorrow (not sure how how Mr. Clark got ahead of me  ), but happy the transaction is proceeding a decent clip. 

I also ordered two of these:
LP Gear Headshell

and one of these:
Jelco DIN to XLR Tonearm Cable

and one of these:
https://www.bobsdevices.com/Miyajima-Lab-Zero-Moving-Coil-Mono-Cartridge.html

 

[ACHiPo]

For those getting the PA70.  You might have to adjust the pivot to mounting hole distance slightly, to achieve your favorite alignment.  Most older Japanese arms were designed with Stevenson like nulls.  One of the Loefgren alignments is usually preferred.

From the factory info on page 1:  Eff length = 282mm  overhang = 12.5mm   That gives a mounting distance = 269.5mm
If you mount the arm at 267mm, I'm reasonably sure you'll be able to use whatever alignment you like.  If someone wants to use an SPU type cart (nonadjustable), we can figure it out.

note: An arc protractor is based on a set mounting distance. 
neo

Neo,
Thanks for the info.  Since I'll be using an outrigger (more of a pylon really I suppose), I figured I'd get it close by adjusting the arm board, then dial in the alignment by adjusting the cartridge in the headshell.

AC

[sunnydaze]

Neo,
Thanks for the info.  Since I'll be using an outrigger (more of a pylon really I suppose), I figured I'd get it close by adjusting the arm board, then dial in the alignment by adjusting the cartridge in the headshell.

AC

When you get it built, please post pics.  I'm curious, and always looking for new approaches.     

[ACHiPo]

Another thing to keep in mind....

For the PA 70, I notice the phono cable plugs into / exits from the bottom of the arm.  With a straight DIN, be sure the cable you get is soft / pliable enough so you can route it properly.  If bulky and stiff (like many ridic audiophile cables), to achieve clearance you'll need to raise the mounting tower, and correspondingly your TT (to maintain the correct platter-to-mount surface distance).

A 90 degree DIN eliminates this problem, but a different issue arises.  To run the cable to preamp, you'd need to build a sidewall opening into whatever arm tower construction you employ. 

I notice that many outboard mounting pods use a cantilever approach to deal with this cable routing issue.  It also allows easy adjustment of mount distance, and swapping of mounting plates for the various tonearm mount schemes.  But you'd need an awful lot of weight in the base to prevent toppling.  Either that or attach it to your shelf.    I considered this, but it involves working with metal and a machine shop.  And building it was complicated compared to what I settled on.   I'm just a simple guy with limited skills, a front deck and some hand tools, so I used wood.

Sunny,
I've been thinking about that.  My first thought was to get a right angled DIN cable, but I gave up only finding a no-name silver cable that had both a right angled DIN connector and XLR terminations.

I think it will be ok, as I have quite a bit of space to work with.  The WTT's plinth/base plus feet is about 5" tall, which should give me about 2-3" to bend the cable.  It's hard to tell from the photo, but I'm assuming the Jelco cable is fairly flexible.
AC

[ACHiPo]

When you get it built, please post pics.  I'm curious, and always looking for new approaches.     

Will do!

[sunnydaze]

Sunny,
I've been thinking about that.  My first thought was to get a right angled DIN cable, but I gave up only finding a no-name silver cable that had both a right angled DIN connector and XLR terminations.

I think it will be ok, as I have quite a bit of space to work with.  The WTT's plinth/base plus feet is about 5" tall, which should give me about 2-3" to bend the cable.  It's hard to tell from the photo, but I'm assuming the Jelco cable is fairly flexible.
AC

If it turns out you need a different option, I can recommend Morrow.  He offers whatever connections you want.  Flexible and easily routed, sounds good, reasonably priced if you buy used or use his trade-in policy -- especially when he runs his specials.  The trade-in economics work nicely if you send him a cable of very little used value for a new one of his at about 50% off. 

His used cable page is 30% off, 40% off when he runs specials.  But I know from experience if you want something that isn't on the used page, just fill out the form, and he will sell you a new one for the used price.

Another good performer I can rec from experience is Zu Xaus.  Super thin and flexible.  Discontinued I believe, but I've seen it on used mkt for about 100 bux.  I think orig retail was about $350.  If you find one without the connections you need, I'm pretty sure the good folks at Zu can re-terminate for you, and it won't cost a kidney.   I've always found them to be quite friendly and helpful.

[S Clark]

PA-70 will be shipped tomorrow (not sure how how Mr. Clark got ahead of me  )...

No doubt it's my winning personality! Or just overly optimistic when told today or tomorrow at the latest.  They will almost certainly go out at the same time.

[ACHiPo]

No doubt it's my winning personality!

No doubt!

[neobop]

AC,
Something you might want to check.  I don't have balanced phono input, but I read that pin-out configuration differs on some phono stages. 
I don't know if this is a problem, just something to be aware of.
neo

[ACHiPo]

AC,
Something you might want to check.  I don't have balanced phono input, but I read that pin-out configuration differs on some phono stages. 
I don't know if this is a problem, just something to be aware of.
neo

Neo,
Thanks for the tip.  I think I'm ok as my phono stage has both regular and inverting inputs--just need to figure out what's what.  There are pin IDs stenciled on the back of the phono stage--I just need to check them.  Also, will polarity matter on a mono cartridge?

AC

[neobop]

Polarity?  Yes, I think so.  You might not hear it readily on some things, but you can hear it on a lot of things.  Absolute polarity might be even more important in mono.  There are preamps that invert polarity and you can compensate with the other input.  Some source material sounds better with polarity inverted, but as a rule, with most good recordings it's better to have it not inverted.

Since your phono is balanced I assume polarity is correct coming out the phono normal outputs.  This is probably a feature provided as a convenience for those with other equipment which inverts.  Some people have to switch polarity with their speaker wires.
neo

[ACHiPo]

The SA-70 tonearm arrived in great shape yesterday.  A bit of schmutz around the baseplate--may be some oxidation, although it looks and feels a bit like residue from packing.  It doesn't clean up with glass cleaner.

It's a beautiful piece of machinery, and heavy!  Oh and it's taller than I thought it would be.  The tonearm cable should arrive today, but unless it's really flexible, I'll need to do some cantilever arrangement and probably put the WTT on another slab of maple--maybe do a DIY Gingko Cloud, or I also have some DIY aurios.



Any recommendations on how to get the mounting geometry?  There wasn't any documentation with the tonearm, and Vinyl Engine doesn't have any info on it that I could find.

[S Clark]

On Vinyl Engine, look up the P3 turntable and you'll find what info is available.  I think Neo posted it earlier in this thread... maybe. Effective length 282mm  overhang 12.5mm  pivot to spindle 269.5  Nulls at 58.7&117.5
And O/S is 18.2, whatever that is??
These things are freakin' huge and heavy.  I'm also at the drawing board trying to figure out how I'm going to mount it. 

[ACHiPo]

On Vinyl Engine, look up the P3 turntable and you'll find what info is available.  I think Neo posted it earlier in this thread... maybe. Effective length 282mm  overhang 12.5mm  pivot to spindle 269.5  Nulls at 58.7&117.5
And O/S is 18.2, whatever that is??

Yeah, I have that info.  I guess I can get out my dividers and fab a template.  As long as I know the overhang I can just use a generic Baerwald template from VE to align the cartridge?

When are we going to see pics of your set up?