Schiit Yggdrasil

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Starchild

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Re: Schiit Yggdrasil
« Reply #20 on: 17 Oct 2015, 10:02 pm »
I suspect the same thing....I have heard the PS Directstream DAC the last two years at RMAF and was somewhat dissapointed.  I was hoping the software engineering accomplished would have rendered a sound that stood out but IMO this was not the case.  I think a good DAC comparison shootout would be between the Directstream and the Yggi.  OF course its hard to tell how good a component sounds in a hotel room with other rooms around blasting music.  For both years the room with the Directstream has not really been a standout though if you read the RMAF reviews and impressions.  Yeah it will be interesting to see if other manufacturers take on the multi-bit ladder approach.

Yes indeed.  It will take a lot of guts to buck the trend.  Schiit probably has a lot of competitors scratching their chins right now.  This reminds me of VHS vs Betamax and the Elcassete vs cassette format wars.  I've also noticed that these dacs don't seem to be getting much main stream coverage (i.e. TAS or S'phile).  Maybe its too soon but Mike Moffat has one of the strongest pedigrees in digital audio.  When he talks, people should listen.  I know I do.

jseymour

Re: Schiit Yggdrasil
« Reply #21 on: 17 Oct 2015, 11:57 pm »
I think the reason Schitt does not get much mainstream attention is because they do not advertise.  Those who do advertise in those publications seem to receive the most attention.

Starchild

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Re: Schiit Yggdrasil
« Reply #22 on: 19 Oct 2015, 10:04 pm »
I just hooked up my new Gungnir multibit.  The first disk I played (still listening to it as I type) was the 24/48 Wallflower by Diana Krall.  An excellent album that 's very well recorded.  Right out of the box, the Gumby soundstages well, strings are lush and vocals are still a little recessed but that will improve; remember this is the first 20 minutes.  My peripherals are a little different but I think they will allow the Gumby to put its best foot forward.  I'm using a YFS USB Reference data only cable feeding a Bryston Buc-1 USB to spdif converter which is in turn connected to the Gumby with a Zu Audio Ash digital cable; power cable is a Silnote Poseidon GL.  I have great expectations and I'll keep you posted.

ASCTLC

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Re: Schiit Yggdrasil
« Reply #23 on: 19 Oct 2015, 11:18 pm »
I believe you are in for a very pleasant surprise if you are commenting at 20 minutes play time Starchild.  I recalled my initial thoughts being very glad of a honeymoon period to return my Gungnir to becoming "holy chit this thing is awesome!!'.

I was able to very quickly switch between playing direct to the preamp and playing through the Gungnir to the preamp.  I remember one day alarmed at what the heck just happened to my system it sounded so flat and lifeless.  Only to realize I selected "CD" on the preamp, which was direct player to preamp, instead of "Special" which sourced from the Gungnir.

You can find my comments in one of the forums here regarding this.

Andy

Starchild

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Re: Schiit Yggdrasil
« Reply #24 on: 19 Oct 2015, 11:47 pm »
I believe you are in for a very pleasant surprise if you are commenting at 20 minutes play time Starchild.  I recalled my initial thoughts being very glad of a honeymoon period to return my Gungnir to becoming "holy chit this thing is awesome!!'.

I was able to very quickly switch between playing direct to the preamp and playing through the Gungnir to the preamp.  I remember one day alarmed at what the heck just happened to my system it sounded so flat and lifeless.  Only to realize I selected "CD" on the preamp, which was direct player to preamp, instead of "Special" which sourced from the Gungnir.

You can find my comments in one of the forums here regarding this.

Andy

Hi Andy,

I know its got a lot of opening up to do.  It's a little veiled right now but you can tell the fundamentals are good.  But right out of the box its quite listenable.  I'm confident it will be a very good dac.  I'll be using the Frybaby file (got the link in one of the circles-its very effective) to expedite the burn in.  I'm listening to the the Keepnes edition of Bill Evans Portrait in Jazz.  The bass is articulate and extended, the piano is a little glassy and cynbals don't have enough air.  It will all get better.

Mike

Starchild

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Re: Schiit Yggdrasil
« Reply #25 on: 20 Oct 2015, 10:28 pm »
The Gumby has been on overnight with a steady dose of the Frybaby burnin signal and it continues to improve.  The soundstage is very deep.  The brushwork on cymbals is getting better.  Bass is very good.  Transparency is improving. Handclaps on live recordings sound like they're in the room with you.  Vocals are better but not in their throat transparent-yet. It is also very receptive to Herbies Tenderfeet.  I need to listen to some strings and acoustic guitar.  So much music and so little time....

martinr

Re: Schiit Yggdrasil
« Reply #26 on: 21 Oct 2015, 12:41 am »
Glad you're enjoying it Starchild....which DAC did you replace with the Gumby??

Starchild

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Re: Schiit Yggdrasil
« Reply #27 on: 21 Oct 2015, 02:35 am »
Glad you're enjoying it Starchild....which DAC did you replace with the Gumby??

I'm afraid I'm going to tell you more than you want to know but here's the short version of a long story.  I had a Margules Sdac 1.1 for several years  (I know, you never heard of it) that I liked very much (I got rid of a Museatex IDat44 to buy it).  The Sdac 1.1 developed a problem with the chip which had gone out of production.  While I was trying to get that serviced, I bought an old Musical Fidelity X-can dac (read cheap) to get me over the hump.  I eventually decided to buy another dac but bided my time while I got a better handle on what was happening in the market place (plus the old X-can sounded pretty good when fed properly).  On top of that, I weas also in the process of assimilating computer audio,  While I was deciding what dac I could afford, I almost pulled the trigger on a Teac U501 when I opted to buy a used Bryston Buc-1 USB converter instead (do not under estimate the impact a god usb converter).  Fast forwarding to the present, after much research I concluded I wanted a ladder dac and was about to buy a used Monarchy Audio  M24 when the Gumby was announced.  Having already decided that multi-bit was the way to go and having great respect for the genius and experience of Mike Moffat,   I inhaled deeplyand took the plunge for the Gumby.  I'm convinced it will be one of the better purchases in my audiophile journey.  Sorry to drag on but that's the short version.  TMI right?  Anyhow, I really like this dac.

wisnon

Re: Schiit Yggdrasil
« Reply #28 on: 21 Oct 2015, 08:21 am »
True.  I guess my statement would have been more accurate if I had said that you wouldn't get dsd out of a ladder dac (having said that, someone who has a better understanding than me will dispell my comments-such is life).  Never-the-less, my point was that Schiit probably would not have developed the multi-bit dac if they were going to add dsd capabilty to the Yggy.  I think that's a valid inference.  Agreed?
Agreed on all counts.

wisnon

Re: Schiit Yggdrasil
« Reply #29 on: 21 Oct 2015, 08:23 am »
Heres a quote on DSD from Mike Moffatt designer of Theta and Schiit dacs:

Even worse is DSD, which I have previously addressed. These are offered by all of the “audio” chip makers, complete with reference designs and “Howto” data sheets that make it possible for fourth graders to build them as class projects. They are cheap, and have resulted in digital audio technology that is nearly as universal as it is insipid. That's not to say that a builder can't add “designer” capacitors, over-designed analog sections or power supplies, fancy over-machined front panels, water-cooling, palletized delivery, jewels, etc., etc, ad nauseum. This sort of extravagance is perfect for the user who wants to invite people over to have his guests admire the piece first. Unfortunately, even though you have wrapped plastic around the vile-smelling “audio” parts, they still have the same performance stench.

 :icon_twisted:

And my ears tell me otherwise. Chipless DSD is a breath of fresh air and Is the BEST digital I have heard so far. THERE IS NO DAC CHIP.

wisnon

Re: Schiit Yggdrasil
« Reply #30 on: 21 Oct 2015, 08:26 am »
I suspect the same thing....I have heard the PS Directstream DAC the last two years at RMAF and was somewhat dissapointed.  I was hoping the software engineering accomplished would have rendered a sound that stood out but IMO this was not the case.  I think a good DAC comparison shootout would be between the Directstream and the Yggi.  OF course its hard to tell how good a component sounds in a hotel room with other rooms around blasting music.  For both years the room with the Directstream has not really been a standout though if you read the RMAF reviews and impressions.  Yeah it will be interesting to see if other manufacturers take on the multi-bit ladder approach.

I agree, the DSD in the version of the DS I heard was a disappointment. Lampi DSD is in another league. If you get a chance, check it out and let me know what you think. Stop going off opinions of gurus and listen for yourself and THEN you will KNOW.

Just because you like the YGGY for PCM does not mean that there isnt DSD playback out there that will warm up your soul.

Starchild

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Re: Schiit Yggdrasil
« Reply #31 on: 21 Oct 2015, 11:14 am »
I agree, the DSD in the version of the DS I heard was a disappointment. Lampi DSD is in another league. If you get a chance, check it out and let me know what you think. Stop going off opinions of gurus and listen for yourself and THEN you will KNOW.

Just because you like the YGGY for PCM does not mean that there isnt DSD playback out there that will warm up your soul.

Agreed.  The ultimate arbiter is the ear balanced by the needs and capacity of the wallet.  The Direct Stream, the Lampizator and the EMM stuff are so far out of my reach that I don't seriously consider it.  Down here on the ground right now, I think hi rez pcm prevails when properly implemented (i.e. non delta-sigma).  DSD does have some issues with the noise shaping and getting the noise pushed out beyond audible frequencies. That's why the highend guys are pushing 2,4,8,10 xDSD.  The computational speed needed to accomplish this is astonomical.  However, I am fast leaving the boundaries of my understanding of DSD so I'm going to stop here.  Never-the-less your point is well taken.  Damn the technology, if it sounds good (and you can afford it) do it!!

martinr

Re: Schiit Yggdrasil
« Reply #32 on: 22 Oct 2015, 12:50 am »
I'm afraid I'm going to tell you more than you want to know but here's the short version of a long story.  I had a Margules Sdac 1.1 for several years  (I know, you never heard of it) that I liked very much (I got rid of a Museatex IDat44 to buy it).  The Sdac 1.1 developed a problem with the chip which had gone out of production.  While I was trying to get that serviced, I bought an old Musical Fidelity X-can dac (read cheap) to get me over the hump.  I eventually decided to buy another dac but bided my time while I got a better handle on what was happening in the market place (plus the old X-can sounded pretty good when fed properly).  On top of that, I weas also in the process of assimilating computer audio,  While I was deciding what dac I could afford, I almost pulled the trigger on a Teac U501 when I opted to buy a used Bryston Buc-1 USB converter instead (do not under estimate the impact a god usb converter).  Fast forwarding to the present, after much research I concluded I wanted a ladder dac and was about to buy a used Monarchy Audio  M24 when the Gumby was announced.  Having already decided that multi-bit was the way to go and having great respect for the genius and experience of Mike Moffat,   I inhaled deeplyand took the plunge for the Gumby.  I'm convinced it will be one of the better purchases in my audiophile journey.  Sorry to drag on but that's the short version.  TMI right?  Anyhow, I really like this dac.

I was considering a Margules mid-range enhancer about 20 years ago when I bought my first tweek which was a Z-man audio-enhancer- tube buffer stage for any disc player....I have a Monarchy audio DIP Upsampler into the channel Islands audio DAC.......will have to wait a while to updrade but Im ready now!  Glad you are enjoying it Starchild - are you still using the Bryston USB converter?  I want to eventually put my 300+ Redbook CD's on a server...may try to get that done this winter depending on funds.

martinr

Re: Schiit Yggdrasil
« Reply #33 on: 22 Oct 2015, 01:02 am »
I agree, the DSD in the version of the DS I heard was a disappointment. Lampi DSD is in another league. If you get a chance, check it out and let me know what you think. Stop going off opinions of gurus and listen for yourself and THEN you will KNOW.

Just because you like the YGGY for PCM does not mean that there isnt DSD playback out there that will warm up your soul.

I did not take the opinion of the Guru to heart Wisnon.....I thought the quote might ruffle a few feathers (he is very passionate that's for sure).  I thought Mike Moffatt's opinion was very one sided....there can't be so many good reviews of DSD dacs and players out there that are all wrong....I have been reading Lampizator reviews for quite a while...I don't know if or when I will get into DSD considering my next step is to transfer my redbook collection to a server....therefore the Yggi seems like a good fit.   Thanks for the advice Wisnon...I will keep the Lampi DSD dac in mind when the time comes.  :)

- Martin

Starchild

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Re: Schiit Yggdrasil
« Reply #34 on: 22 Oct 2015, 03:23 am »
I was considering a Margules mid-range enhancer about 20 years ago when I bought my first tweek which was a Z-man audio-enhancer- tube buffer stage for any disc player....I have a Monarchy audio DIP Upsampler into the channel Islands audio DAC.......will have to wait a while to updrade but Im ready now!  Glad you are enjoying it Starchild - are you still using the Bryston USB converter?  I want to eventually put my 300+ Redbook CD's on a server...may try to get that done this winter depending on funds.

Hi Martin,

I've been usiong Margules gear for 20 years and just recently replaced my amp and preamp with more current versions of the same models; I like their sound that much.  To my ear, Julian Margules (the proprietor) just flat out knows how to make great sounding equipment.  Check out some of their reviews in Dagogo (Tube Pre-amp review amd Tube amp review).  My stuff is the previous generation but it looks just like these models.  The Bryston Buc-1 is a godsend.  It is the best digital doillar I've ever spent.  I didn't get true highend sound from my computer until I bought it and I'm glad I had the good luck and tiniest bit of wisdom to buy it.  If you have a pc you're re willing to dedicate to music (I'm partial to desk tops over laptops) and $70 to buy a new copy of JRiver media center, then you're on your way to setting up a music server.  I use my Dell desktop computer as a component and it sits on my equipment rack next to my pre-amp with its own audiophile power cord (gasp!) and sits on a set set of Herbies Tenderfeet (double gasp!!).   These enhancements are quite audible and to my ear essentail; try it, you'll like it.  I strongly recommend that you go the usb converter route.  It get's all of that conversion activity and noise out of the dac box and let's the dac jreceive a nice clean reclocked signal so it doesn't have to work so hard.  There are other less expensive usb converters on the market that will serve the purpose but I think the Brysaton is one of the best.  Here is list of USB converters from the The Werll Tempered Computer.  Happy listening!

Mike

Starchild

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Re: Schiit Yggdrasil
« Reply #35 on: 24 Oct 2015, 11:52 pm »
I've got over 125 hours in on the Gumby.  It has not been turned off and has been fed signal constantly either from me playing music or a steady repeat of various burn in and test sources (Frybaby audio track, Xlo Test & Burn-In CD, Tara Lads - Cascade Noise Burn In Disk and Stereophile Test CD).  I'm also using 4 Herbies Tenderfeet with one Supersonic Stabilizer on top of the dac.  Signals are originating from my Dell desk top pc which is deriving power from my Furman conditioner via a Zu Audio Mother power cable (don't laugh, it make s a huge difference).  The desktop also sits on 4 Herbies Tenderfeet on my component stand.  I've become a firm believer in usb converters so my pc is connected to a Bryston Buc-1 USB to spdif converter via a YFS USB Reference data only cable.  The BUC-1 also has a Zu Audio Mother power cable and the Gumby is using a Silnote Poseidon GL power cord.  The Gumby receives its signal via a Zu Audio Ash spdif rca digital cable.

Now that all of that's out of the way, let say that the Gumby is awesome.  The bass is very extended and articulate. Some may call it warm sounding but not detrimentally so.  If you'll recall back in the day, many we're attracted to Theta dacs because of how they reproduced bass; I suspect the family lineage is shining through with the Gumby.  Cymbals are  metallic with plenty of air.  Vocals are holographic with background singers clearly spread across the soundstage (background singers are easily understood as well).  Strings are lush and acoustic guitarists are right in front of you.  Pianos have the appropriate amount of percussive attack and decay (i.e. they sound like real pianos).  The soundstage is deep and extended.  No digital glare and no listener fatigue.  The suddenness of handclaps on live disks are scary and immmersive.  I know I'm writing in short clipped sentences but all I can say is I haven't heard anything I don't like.  The Gumby is a musical and enjoyable piece that's worthy of your consideration.  Back to the listening chair, I've been away too long already.

One more observation, I've never heard 44.1/16 standard resolution sound this good before.  The music has body and makes you want to shake the proverbial booty (the real one too).  Sound improvements from hirez, where present, are clearly discernible.  I'm rediscovering my music collection because the resolution of the Gumby keeps pulling stuff out of the mi I hadn't heard before.  Listening to Cassandra Wilson's Harvest Moon on New Moon Daughter in the dark can be spooky as you go deeper into the swamp like mix of cricket sounds.  Great stuff!!

Happy listeninig,

Mike
« Last Edit: 25 Oct 2015, 03:01 am by Starchild »

martinr

Re: Schiit Yggdrasil
« Reply #36 on: 30 Oct 2015, 07:59 pm »
 :D

JLM

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Re: Schiit Yggdrasil
« Reply #37 on: 30 Oct 2015, 10:31 pm »
Thanks for the follow up.   :thumb:

resovia

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Re: Schiit Yggdrasil
« Reply #38 on: 24 Oct 2016, 06:05 pm »
Hi,
Currently compering Yggdrasil DAC vs nuPrime  DAC 10 and I cannot tell them apart, so far they sound exactly the same to me.


kernelbob

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Re: Schiit Yggdrasil
« Reply #39 on: 24 Oct 2016, 06:34 pm »
Hi all,

This might be a bit off-topic, but I recently bought a "Mutec MC3+USB" reclocking device.  It has other functionality, but I'm using it ahead of my Schiit Yggy DAC.  My expectations weren't very high since the Yggy already performs anti-jitter processing.

I was amazed at the improvement.  I was getting really annoyed with an upper midrange hardness, glassiness, or glare depending on the recording and music.  The Mutec completely cleaned that up.  No downsides with better imaging, coherence, and low level information.  The box lists for $1100.  Mutec is also coming out with a new external 10 MHz rubidium atomic clock that can be plugged into the MC3.  It was designed to feed the high quality clock signal to multiple devices in mastering studios, so it has many sets of outputs for a clock signal.  However, that's going to run around $5k, so it would have to really transform the system to justify the price for just feeding a DAC.

The MC3 needs to run for a few days to reach its best sound.  The first day, the sound was a bit dry.  Then, it got more full and had better imaging.  After about 5 days or so, there was a noticeable improvement in the extreme top end with added delicacy, air, and speed.

Robert