[martinr]

Listened to the Yggi at RMAF with headphones in the CANJAM room....it sounded good but there was no way to evaluate or compare to other systems with speakers....the Schiit Rep said he replaced a meridian DAC with the Yggi, and that he believed the Yggi would stand up to any dac up to the $5000 range....it would be great to do a shootout between the Yggi and other dacs in the same price category or higher...the PS audio directstream dac would be a a real interesting comparison IMHO.....just sayin 

[Starchild]

Unfortunately the Yggy is too rich for my blood.  However, I enthusiastically ponied up the neccesary scratch for a Gungnir Multibit.  I hope to receive it by the weekend.

[rajacat]

Unfortunately the Yggy is too rich for my blood.  However, I enthusiastically ponied up the neccesary scratch for a Gungnir Multibit.  I hope to receive it by the weekend.

Congratulations ,  I will be looking forward to your review.

[MttBsh]

I received my Yggdrasil in the beginning of August (ordered towards the end of May) and absolutely love it. I've owned a few DACs in the past (Monarchy, Scott Nixon, Audiosector, Eastern Electric) but nothing high end. Price-wise the Yggdrasil is certainly not high-end either, but it transformed my system the first minute I played it, and it improved as it burned in. It provides a multi-layered soundstage, beautiful tonality, body, weight, incredible detail and the deepest bass I've ever heard. If you search for reviews, you can find a few, especially on Head-Fi http://www.changstar.com/index.php?board=5.0 where the Yggrasil is compared to other DACs.

I'm sure there are DACs out there that will better it, but for $2,200.00 it ain't gonna happen. Highly recommended.

[martinr]

I received my Yggdrasil in the beginning of August (ordered towards the end of May) and absolutely love it. I've owned a few DACs in the past (Monarchy, Scott Nixon, Audiosector, Eastern Electric) but nothing high end. Price-wise the Yggdrasil is certainly not high-end either, but it transformed my system the first minute I played it, and it improved as it burned in. It provides a multi-layered soundstage, beautiful tonality, body, weight, incredible detail and the deepest bass I've ever heard. If you search for reviews, you can find a few, especially on Head-Fi http://www.changstar.com/index.php?board=5.0 where the Yggrasil is compared to other DACs.

I'm sure there are DACs out there that will better it, but for $2,200.00 it ain't gonna happen. Highly recommended.

What other components are you using in your system/front end? 

- Thanks

- Martin

[MttBsh]

What other components are you using in your system/front end? 

- Thanks

- Martin

Martin - I'm currently using a Sony Bluray player as my front end (the weak link in my system, I know -  but it sounds GREAT!) am looking at upgrading to a an Auraliti PK90 or PK100 as a transport. My Yggdrasil feeds a Dodd preamp to a pair of Sophia Electric 91-01 monoblock amps and Abby speakers w/fostex 900A supertweeters and a pair of SVS Subs. My wife and I just returned a couple of days ago to Seattle from a two week vacation in Paris and the Italian island of Capri and as much as I loved every minute of our trip, coming home to an ice cold martini by the fireplace with the newly upgraded sound system makes me appreciate what I have right here!

Matt

[Russell Dawkins]

Martin - I'm currently using a Sony Bluray player as my front end (the weak link in my system, I know -  but it sounds GREAT!) am looking at upgrading to a an Auraliti PK90 or PK100 as a transport. My Yggdrasil feeds a Dodd preamp to a pair of Sophia Electric 91-01 monoblock amps and Abby speakers w/fostex 900A supertweeters and a pair of SVS Subs. My wife and I just returned a couple of days ago to Seattle from a two week vacation in Paris and the Italian island of Capri and as much as I loved every minute of our trip, coming home to an ice cold martini by the fireplace with the newly upgraded sound system makes me appreciate what I have right here!

Matt

Sounds like a luscious system! Kudos.

[martinr]

Martin - I'm currently using a Sony Bluray player as my front end (the weak link in my system, I know -  but it sounds GREAT!) am looking at upgrading to a an Auraliti PK90 or PK100 as a transport. My Yggdrasil feeds a Dodd preamp to a pair of Sophia Electric 91-01 monoblock amps and Abby speakers w/fostex 900A supertweeters and a pair of SVS Subs. My wife and I just returned a couple of days ago to Seattle from a two week vacation in Paris and the Italian island of Capri and as much as I loved every minute of our trip, coming home to an ice cold martini by the fireplace with the newly upgraded sound system makes me appreciate what I have right here!

Matt

Matt - you do have a nice system. Its good to know the Yggi was a significant upgrade considering how resolving your system already was.  I noticed on the Schiit website they mention the Yggi's circuit cards and internal components are fully upgradable which makes me think they may have left the door open for a future DSD circuit card/upgrade.  Glad the Dac is working out for you so well, Im probably going to wait another year or so to pruchase.   Im using a marantz five disc changer going through a monarchy audio dip upsampler into a channel island audio dac, so Im ready to upgrade.  Probably going to eventually get a HAL server from here on Audiocircle, seems to be a good bang for the buck.  BTW I've visited the island of Capri on a cruise but have not stayed there....happy listening- Martin

[Starchild]

Matt - you do have a nice system. Its good to know the Yggi was a significant upgrade considering how resolving your system already was.  I noticed on the Schiit website they mention the Yggi's circuit cards and internal components are fully upgradable which makes me think they may have left the door open for a future DSD circuit card/upgrade.  Glad the Dac is working out for you so well, Im probably going to wait another year or so to pruchase.   Im using a marantz five disc changer going through a monarchy audio dip upsampler into a channel island audio dac, so Im ready to upgrade.  Probably going to eventually get a HAL server from here on Audiocircle, seems to be a good bang for the buck.  BTW I've visited the island of Capri on a cruise but have not stayed there....happy listening- Martin

As I understand it, reproductiopn of DSD requires a delta-sigma chip.  I don't think Schiit would have gone to the trouble of developing a multi-bit ladder dac if they were planning to "upgrade" to DSD.  The older versions of the Gungnir and the Bifrost used DSD capable delta-digma chips but they chose instead to offer the Loki which is a DSD only dac.  Mike Moffat made the following comments on Head-fi regharding DSD:

"So for the record, and not to branded as an anti-DSD bigot, below are some brief technological comments re DSD vs. PCM.

DSD Advantages:  jitter less relevant, anti-imaging, anti-aliasing filter artifact shifts to noise shaping filter artifacts.  Far cheaper.

Disadvantages:  Non closed form math solution noise shaping makes no missing code encode/decode theoretical at best, read nearly impossible.  Also makes time domain optimization difficult/impossible.  Couldn't reliably guide a missile with this technology, for example, without killing non-targets or innocents.  It would seem this would not bode well for accurately encoding/decoding music.  Recordings converted to DSD lose claimed DSD advantages when decoded on DSD machines.
 
Believe it or not, I hope that I am wrong.  I would love to build a DSD converter and promise to do so when a significant amount of DSD natively encoded mainstream recordings are available.  We shall see if I am still waiting when the next super whiz-bang notion hits the press.................................. ....................MM"

So, given his comments o0n the disadvantages of DSD that he lists above, I don't see Schiit offereing a "DSD upgrade" to the Yggy.  Jason Stoddard and Mike Moffat (his handle is Baldr) are sponors on Head-fi and post there regularly. If you're intreresed in the Yggy or the Gumby, it may be worth your while read some of their comments.

[mamba315]

I haven't purchased a "Yggy" or any other multi-bit Schiit DAC.  From the reading I've done, the Gungnir MB seems to be the value of the line up.  The Yggy is better but diminishing returns does kick on.  The Bifrost MB is not bad at all but most people seem to agree it's worth stepping up to the Gungnir MB if you can swing it.

I did hear a Yggy at CanJam RMAF, but it wasn't on supporting gear that I was familiar with.  Would be nice to hear it on my home system, but I'm pretty happy with my current DAC so I haven't bothered.

I do think the up-gradable feature is pretty cool.  When they first announced this as a feature during the release of the original Bifrost DAC, I wasn't impressed.  But they've followed through, and any DAC of theirs can be kept fairly modern as a result.  Not all companies follow through on that promise, and I fully support all those who do.  There's no doubt, planned obsolescence is smelly business.

[martinr]

As I understand it, reproductiopn of DSD requires a delta-sigma chip.  I don't think Schiit would have gone to the trouble of developing a multi-bit ladder dac if they were planning to "upgrade" to DSD.  The older versions of the Gungnir and the Bifrost used DSD capable delta-digma chips but they chose instead to offer the Loki which is a DSD only dac.  Mike Moffat made the following comments on Head-fi regharding DSD:

"So for the record, and not to branded as an anti-DSD bigot, below are some brief technological comments re DSD vs. PCM.

DSD Advantages:  jitter less relevant, anti-imaging, anti-aliasing filter artifact shifts to noise shaping filter artifacts.  Far cheaper.

Disadvantages:  Non closed form math solution noise shaping makes no missing code encode/decode theoretical at best, read nearly impossible.  Also makes time domain optimization difficult/impossible.  Couldn't reliably guide a missile with this technology, for example, without killing non-targets or innocents.  It would seem this would not bode well for accurately encoding/decoding music.  Recordings converted to DSD lose claimed DSD advantages when decoded on DSD machines.
 
Believe it or not, I hope that I am wrong.  I would love to build a DSD converter and promise to do so when a significant amount of DSD natively encoded mainstream recordings are available.  We shall see if I am still waiting when the next super whiz-bang notion hits the press.................................. ....................MM"

So, given his comments o0n the disadvantages of DSD that he lists above, I don't see Schiit offereing a "DSD upgrade" to the Yggy.  Jason Stoddard and Mike Moffat (his handle is Baldr) are sponors on Head-fi and post there regularly. If you're intreresed in the Yggy or the Gumby, it may be worth your while read some of their comments.

I took the time to read the description of the Yggi more closely on Head-fi yesterday,  I agree Starchild, because of the type of multibit ladder DAC they use in the Yggi, it doesnt seem likely they will upgrade to DSD....different design with a different goal in mind.  Thanks for the clarification

- Martin

[Starchild]

I took the time to read the description of the Yggi more closely on Head-fi yesterday,  I agree Starchild, because of the type of multibit ladder DAC they use in the Yggi, it doesnt seem likely they will upgrade to DSD....different design with a different goal in mind.  Thanks for the clarification

- Martin

Hi Martin,

I've been studying this stuff for quite a few months now trying get an inkling of an idea of what's going on.  The whole argument of delta-sigma vs ladder dacs and pcm vs dsd is very interesting and there are lots of low tech explanations on the web to help people like me get a clue.  After much research, I finally decided to buy a Gungnir Multibit (besides I couldn't pronounce Yggdrasil  until recently-  my friends call it the wtf dac).  Anyhow, I'm sitting here now with my mouth pushed out because my Gumby didn't arrive yesterday.  The Yggy is outside my budget range but I think the Gungnir will answer the mail. 

Happy listening,
Mike

[martinr]

Hi Martin,

I've been studying this stuff for quite a few months now trying get an inkling of an idea of what's going on.  The whole argument of delta-sigma vs ladder dacs and pcm vs dsd is very interesting and there are lots of low tech explanations on the web to help people like me get a clue.  After much research, I finally decided to buy a Gungnir Multibit (besides I couldn't pronounce Yggdrasil  until recently-  my friends call it the wtf dac).  Anyhow, I'm sitting here now with my mouth pushed out because my Gumby didn't arrive yesterday.  The Yggy is outside my budget range but I think the Gungnir will answer the mail. 

Happy listening,
Mike

Let me know what you think of the Gungir...it will be interesting to hear your impressions....from reading on head-fi it sounds like the Yggi does most for redbook playback....I'm probably a year out from the upgrade....but drooling over the reviews.
- Martin

[Starchild]

Let me know what you think of the Gungir...it will be interesting to hear your impressions....from reading on head-fi it sounds like the Yggi does most for redbook playback....I'm probably a year out from the upgrade....but drooling over the reviews.
- Martin

Will do!

[wisnon]

DSD does not require any Dac chip at all.

Check out Lampizator DSD and Direct Stream from PS Audio...

[Starchild]

DSD does not require any Dac chip at all.

Check out Lampizator DSD and Direct Stream from PS Audio...

True.  I guess my statement would have been more accurate if I had said that you wouldn't get dsd out of a ladder dac (having said that, someone who has a better understanding than me will dispell my comments-such is life).  Never-the-less, my point was that Schiit probably would not have developed the multi-bit dac if they were going to add dsd capabilty to the Yggy.  I think that's a valid inference.  Agreed?

[martinr]

DSD does not require any Dac chip at all.

Check out Lampizator DSD and Direct Stream from PS Audio...

Heres a quote on DSD from Mike Moffatt designer of Theta and Schiit dacs:

Even worse is DSD, which I have previously addressed. These are offered by all of the “audio” chip makers, complete with reference designs and “Howto” data sheets that make it possible for fourth graders to build them as class projects. They are cheap, and have resulted in digital audio technology that is nearly as universal as it is insipid. That's not to say that a builder can't add “designer” capacitors, over-designed analog sections or power supplies, fancy over-machined front panels, water-cooling, palletized delivery, jewels, etc., etc, ad nauseum. This sort of extravagance is perfect for the user who wants to invite people over to have his guests admire the piece first. Unfortunately, even though you have wrapped plastic around the vile-smelling “audio” parts, they still have the same performance stench.

 

[newzooreview]

I've had the Yggdrasil for about 6 weeks now, and it's better than what I've used previously in my system. It's very detailed and revealing while having better timbre, better bass, and better soundstage. There have been no downsides at all, and the overall presentation is very natural and gets me closer to what is on the recording than anything I've had before. Live recordings sound much more live and studio recordings show me more of everything there.  But again, it's music, it has pace and bounce; it's enjoyable. It's the least fatiguing DAC I've had while being the most revealing.

However, in my system this is only true when using the XLR outputs from the Yggdrasil. I tried the RCA outputs at first, and although there was detail there was something off. I understand that the Yggdrasil is fully balanced and uses DACs on each channel; to me the summing circuit diminished the quality of the output. I was using Triode Wire Labs interconnects, and so I asked Pete if he could make me an XLR to RCA cable with a resistor to match the input impedance of my pre-amp (Red Wine Audio Isabella). He was happy to take it on, and they made a big difference. The sound opened up, got even more clear, and everything sounded better than the old DAC and terrific.

The old DAC will be a very nice upgrade for the bedroom system and kept me very happy for a few years. It's a dB Audio Labs Tranquility SE plus. The plus is my designation for the additional upgrades done by dB Audio to the stock SE. I hope to have it for many years more because it's terrific, but if I had $2K to spend on a DAC right now I would buy the Yggdrasil again.

I hope that helps.

One more note: I did get a battery uninterruptible power supply that I plug the Yggdrasil into. It very definitely sounds best kept powered on 24/7. If power is cut it can take a while to come back to best sound. Also, it does want 300 hours of break in when it's new. I listened to it during break-in, and yep, it gets better and has some ups and downs along the way.

[Starchild]

Heres a quote on DSD from Mike Moffatt designer of Theta and Schiit dacs:

Even worse is DSD, which I have previously addressed. These are offered by all of the “audio” chip makers, complete with reference designs and “Howto” data sheets that make it possible for fourth graders to build them as class projects. They are cheap, and have resulted in digital audio technology that is nearly as universal as it is insipid. That's not to say that a builder can't add “designer” capacitors, over-designed analog sections or power supplies, fancy over-machined front panels, water-cooling, palletized delivery, jewels, etc., etc, ad nauseum. This sort of extravagance is perfect for the user who wants to invite people over to have his guests admire the piece first. Unfortunately, even though you have wrapped plastic around the vile-smelling “audio” parts, they still have the same performance stench.

 

He obviously doesn't think too much of DSD.  If you go over to the hi-rez circle and make those comments, you may have a fight break out.  I don't thiink DSD is the panacea that so many folks are making it out to be.  Moffat is on to something here.  We may be seeing a paradigm shift happening before our very eyes.

[martinr]

He obviously doesn't think too much of DSD.  If you go over to the hi-rez circle and make those comments, you may have a fight break out.  I don't thiink DSD is the panacea that so many folks are making it out to be.  Moffat is on to something here.  We may be seeing a paradigm shift happening before our very eyes.

I suspect the same thing....I have heard the PS Directstream DAC the last two years at RMAF and was somewhat dissapointed.  I was hoping the software engineering accomplished would have rendered a sound that stood out but IMO this was not the case.  I think a good DAC comparison shootout would be between the Directstream and the Yggi.  OF course its hard to tell how good a component sounds in a hotel room with other rooms around blasting music.  For both years the room with the Directstream has not really been a standout though if you read the RMAF reviews and impressions.  Yeah it will be interesting to see if other manufacturers take on the multi-bit ladder approach.