[SteveFord]

Have the seller keep the item and all packaging at his house until he receives instructions from the insurance company/carrier.
Don't do anything until you've been instructed to by the insurance company/carrier.
This is a weird one with a 3rd party being thrown into the mix.

[mresseguie]

This is such a mess.

Note that all communication with Agon customer service is ONLY via email. Information that is useful to me or the buyer gets doled out in very small quantities.

When I mentioned that I had called Fedex, and that the buyer will file a claim with Fedex, I was informed that the customer service rep has handled a dozen cases like this recently, and he knows how to handle them. My impression is that he doesn't seem too happy about involving Fedex in this situation.

WTH?

I explained how the buyer and I are getting very anxious, and how important clarity and good communication are.

I've got this awful feeling building in my gut. 

[Hugh]

Words of advice re FedEx.

We recently shipped a box through them and it arrived undamaged on the outside but the item was shattered beyond repair.
We honestly didn't know how it could happen since we took extra measures to ensure they were packaged extremely well.

Anyway, we asked the customer to take pictures as well as filing a claim with FedEx.
The first automatic response from FedEx was we didn't pack it good enough and the claim was denied.
The customer then asked FedEx how can you denied a claim without seeing the pictures of the damaged item.
FedEx then admitted they were rushed to conclusion and asked for pictures.
The customer never heard back from them so I had to call FedEx myself and pointed out to them, from the pictures, that there is a visible dent right in the middle of the box which was not there when we handed the box over to FedEx.

To make a long story short, all we got was Claim Denied.
We resolved to take them to Small Claim Court and they settled out of court prior to court date.

By the way, FedEx never sent anybody to inspect the item.

[Tomy2Tone]

So is it true with FedEx/UPS that you can buy all the added insurance you want but if you don't use their box and packing they usually will deny your claim? I've always heard this but never had it confirmed or denied.

[bladesmith]

If anyone, even had a clue how bad packages get treated when shipped by rail. You would be amazed.
Packages going down the rail by any shipping company (BNSF/UP/NS/CSX) are beat senseless. Although trains looks smooth riding from a distance. It is physically jarring, to the point of being thrown from your seat. And I have actually seen people thrown from there chair/seat while transporting freight down the transcon. Literally being thrown into the ceiling of the cab.

Hard to believe, but true..

[SteveFord]

Heck, packages fall from 30' heights from a conveyor belt into the bins at the UPS terminal in Atlanta.
It's a wonder anything gets where it's going in one piece. 

[bladesmith]

Heck, packages fall from 30' heights from a conveyor belt into the bins at the UPS terminal in Atlanta.
It's a wonder anything gets where it's going in one piece.

That's the truth...!

[Bemopti123]

What concerns me about this situation is the identity of the insuring party.  Once a long time ago, UPS used to pay the claim against damages without much fuzz because I believe it was a different party that insured against transportation damages BUT, perhaps about 8-10 years ago, that all changed as they switched the company which was paid by UPS to insure against damages.  What happens when a company gets paid by UPS for damage claims, will they PAY when something is clearly a UPS negligence?  No way of knowing but I do suspect that the company hired will be around long with UPS if they pay EVERYTHING that UPS damages. 

I remember once someone suing UPS in small claims court and then they were quick to settle, but they fully know well that many people will not go such length in order to collect what is rightfully theirs.

Moral: DO NOT PURCHASE extra insurance from the UPS.  It is, for me, in the shipping end, a royal scam. 

[Tomy2Tone]

Moral: DO NOT PURCHASE extra insurance from the UPS.  It is, for me, in the shipping end, a royal scam.

I've never understood this notion either. They want me to pay extra in case they break it...

[Kenneth Patchen]

So is it true with FedEx/UPS that you can buy all the added insurance you want but if you don't use their box and packing they usually will deny your claim? I've always heard this but never had it confirmed or denied.

Yes, that was my experience: original boxes and inserts and added insurance but the claim refused. Evidently,the original boxes didn't their standards. Of course, they accepted the boxes for shipping, no concerns or questions voiced by them at that time all all.

[mresseguie]

BTW, I really appreciate everyone's input on this. I almost feel as though I've gained membership to an exclusive club. 

Kidding aside, the insurance I procured is not through Fedex. It's a third party outfit. I was finally (after much pleading and offering of virgin sacrifices) given some understanding of just what the f@&$ is going on. The ins. company wants a repair estimate from a repair center (Sim Audio in this case) based on photographs of the damage. No one knows if the inside was damaged! There's no way to know (without opening up the case) if the IC board is damaged! The engineer at Sim Audio said he'd offer a couple scenarios for repair.

If estimated damages reach a certain level, the amp will be declared 'totaled'. I have no knowledge of what that threshold is. It's all a waiting game at this point.

I was instructed to not refund the buyer's money until an ins. decision is declared. Someone is going to be really really pissed until then. 

[robin67]

You got your answers , now its time to issue the buyer a refund .

[bladesmith]

BTW, I really appreciate everyone's input on this. I almost feel as though I've gained membership to an exclusive club. 

Kidding aside, the insurance I procured is not through Fedex. It's a third party outfit. I was finally (after much pleading and offering of virgin sacrifices) given some understanding of just what the f@&$ is going on. The ins. company wants a repair estimate from a repair center (Sim Audio in this case) based on photographs of the damage. No one knows if the inside was damaged! There's no way to know (without opening up the case) if the IC board is damaged! The engineer at Sim Audio said he'd offer a couple scenarios for repair.

If estimated damages reach a certain level, the amp will be declared 'totaled'. I have no knowledge of what that threshold is. It's all a waiting game at this point.

I was instructed to not refund the buyer's money until an ins. decision is declared. Someone is going to be really really pissed until then. 

Can feel your pain, brother.

I have been so tempted to sell/purchase items. Then I remember my last purchase and it didn't go well.

So I just refrain from selling/purchasing. I just can't put myself thru that again.. I try to be more than fair, but the shippers are just ruthless.. Even if you buy insurance, which I think most agree, is a "scam".

V...

[mresseguie]

You got your answers , now its time to issue the buyer a refund .

Hi, Robin.

I know. I was given a specific instruction to wait until the insurance matter is settled.

 

[GentleBender]

All you can do is be honest to the buyer and learn through this experience.  Escott1377 had some great advice I will use if needed.

FWIW - any items that I sell go to Fed Ex or UPS and I pay for them to box and ship.  It makes the claims process much easier since they are working w/ their own adjuster at that point.  UPS damaged my speakers going back in for an upgrade and had to cut a check a for $4,200 for the repair.  It was a small investment on my part for my sanity.

You have been doing everything you can to resolve it, this is one of those situations where no one is happy.

[mix4fix]

Shouldn't certain items never be shipped because of possible damage?

[Escott1377]

You got your answers , now its time to issue the buyer a refund .

As long as the unit is in the possession of the buyer, I would not issue a refund.

The shipping company is not going to want the unit shipped back at this point either, so it is a catch 22 to say the least.

i can't imagine that a claim will be paid w/o an actual physical inspection of the package.  If so, the gods may be smiling on you, even if it difficult to see at this point.

[robin67]

Looking at the sellers last post , the unit needs to go to sim audio next , why should the buyer need to wait ? I
dont get it , oh well we all do things diffrent. GOOD LUCK

The buyer paid for a item , it showed up damaged not the buyers problem , its clear fed ex isnt comming to get the package .

[mresseguie]

Robin,

The insurance company/Audiogon's service rep has stated unequivocally that the amp goes nowhere for now. It stays with the buyer until a decision is reached by the insurance company.

In my post I stated the insurance company wants a repair estimate based on photographs of the amp.

I'm over my panic mode reaction. I'm not running round like a chicken with its head cut off anymore. I'm anxious and wish that this be cleared up as soon as possible. Let's all carefully read what is being said. 

[mr_bill]

I was the buyer for a Fed Ex depot packed and shipped item (by seller). The corner of the plastic display was destroyed which probable happened when they were packing it. Upon pickup of the damaged receiver by Fed Ex and inspection the outside of the box looked fine.
Fed Ex denied the claim and would take no responsibility. They also told me insurance in not 'insurance' at all.
I was out $500 but am thankful the seller split the purchase with me and gave me a 50% refund.
I'm not sure what I learned from this but it made me really mad at Fed Ex, cost me $500, but could have been worse I guess.