Why do audiophiles hate Bose?

nathanm · « **on:** 25 Feb 2003, 01:38 am »

I ask this out of pure scientific curiosity, it is not a loaded question in any way. I have never heard any Bose speakers at all, I have absolutely no opinion one way or the other about them, but I am curious as to why they are used as a universal whipping post in the audiophile community. Is it their marketing approach? The way they sound? Too mainstream? Surely there must be a good reason one company has earned so much hatred, mockery and derision. I'm curious to know why, that's all.

Thanks folks!

bob82274 · « **Reply #1 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 01:49 am »

For the most part they are way overpriced. The little cubes have part of their frequency response missing. Bose refuses to relase any sort of data on the subject. Umm... what else. I own a pair of the 201s and I hate them for the most part. They do ok as surrounds but other than that I don't give a damn what happens to them. I bought them before I had any idea on what to look for in a speaker so I was a sucker to the machine. Poorly made through and through. I think that covers most of it. Anyone else?

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #2 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 02:27 am »

It's the sound.

transam · « **Reply #3 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 03:06 am »

I have sold bose speakers 7 yrs.I enjoy showing other speakers and the customer saying bose sucks.I like saving the world from bad audio.In the end it doesn't matter it all puts money in my pocket so i can buy b&k mono blocks, martin logan speakers.

bubba966 · « **Reply #4 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 03:18 am »

Well, there's a reason why Bose won't let their speakers be set up in a system with other speakers. They don't want you to be able to do any a/b comparisons to anyone else's speakers.

If that doesn't tell you something, I don't know what will...

Carlman · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 03:39 am »

Quote from: nathanm

I ask this out of pure scientific curiosity, it is not a loaded question in any way. I have never heard any Bose speakers at all, I have absolutely no opinion .......

Please go listen to some.... any at all. I used to gleefully sell them to anyone who wanted them at Circuit City. I even toured the factory in South Carolina... it was very interesting. I noticed they used a Samsung transport and a paper-type circuit board in their $2,k Lifestyle system. It appeared that everything they produced was the product of deciding the absolute cheapest way to do it. I would guess their profit goals are in the thousands. (like interconnects, power cords, wire stands

etc...)

The reality of course, is that the sound isn't that great.... but, it's not that bad, either. The average consumer who does not discern truly great audio will think a Bose sounds great. They sound better than most average to below average systems/speakers. Their systems are highly proprietary and discourages any changes to the original design. That's probably good for the average Joe in more ways than one.

Bose are heavily equalized in all of their systems which does not appeal to a purist. They sound somewhat accurate on acoustic guitar, vocals, and some types of drums. Cymbals sound like mush, bass sounds like mush, imaging is really weird, and they're overall unconvincing.
There's an old saying... 'no highs, no lows, must be Bose'...

So, audition them for yourself. They probably won't sound awful, just completely average and passable for the average Joe. They're marketed for Joe. Since you're on Audiocircle, you're probably not Joe.

-Carl

Mathew_M · « **Reply #6 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 03:45 am »

It's a little of the marketing ploy along with the audiophile snob factor. Bose are advertised everywhere, have a rather innocuous sound and most consumers like the cube size factor. Also it doesn't hurt that they basically dominate big box stores like Best Buy where the sales drones are brain washed into saying that Bose are the best.

And yes they are extremely over priced along with cheaply made. I've never listened to them under discerning conditions so I can't comment on frequency response. I would say that if they were a 1/4 of the price there wouldn't be any brouhaha.

nathanm · « **Reply #7 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 03:29 pm »

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #8 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 03:47 pm »

At www.audioholics.com there is a real revew, with measurements of a Bose speaker. To put it bluntly; the frequency response is incredibly poor with big gaps in the response. Recommended reading for all.

jcoat007 · « **Reply #9 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 04:37 pm »

The review from audioholics:

Bose 701 Bottom Line:

The Bose 701 speaker system is much different from the other speakers in this review. They stand 32 1÷2" X 10 1÷4" X 12 1÷2" and have a retail price of $838 for a pair and have little or no discount thanks to Bose's price fixing policy. These speakers are unique in that they:

Have the worst overall build quality
The only speakers in this review that utilize paper drivers for the tweeters and midrange.
Have the highest retail price which is not proportional to their performance.
The Bose 701 has dual 8" woofers, (1) 6.5" side firing midrange and (2) 2" paper tweeters. The 2" paper tweeters are too large for the task of high frequencies. The treble coming out of the 701's is very unrefined, raspy, and undetailed . The midrange sounded muddy, bloated, and 2 dimensional. It was extremely difficult to get these speakers to image properly as the sound just seemed to blare out in all directions with no uniformity or tonal consistency.

The bass extension was impressive for this speaker system and was the only minor strong point I found about this system. However, switching back and forth between the Bose 701's and the Pinnacle Reference was like night and day. Picture how your voice sounds when you try to speak 5 feet underwater. Now imagine how much clearer your voice sounds once you have lifted your head above sea level. The 701's represent your head 5' under water while the Reference puts you on a nice beach chair far above sea level, sipping Pina Coladas with a slightly cool breeze coming from the NE. In other words the Pinnacle Reference, and even all of the other speaker systems reviewed here crushed the Bose 701's with respect to overall fidelity, build quality, and value. After my listening session with these speakers, it is my opinion that Bose should change their slogan to "Better Sales Thru Marketing...".

I think that about says it all.

Pez · « **Reply #10 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 10:05 pm »

What I find humorous about the whole Bose thing is that so many people think that they are "saving" people by telling them not to buy Bose. Then they turn around and recommend JBL or Def. Tech. as if that's the right thing to buy.

here's a guy trying to save the world from Bose by convincing you that Bose sucks through poor rhetoric. http://www.fiendation.com/300zx/bosefaq.htm

Honestly I think stupid people get what they deserve. If you're retarded enough to go out and pay for anything (cars, audio equipment, hookers) without shopping around first and comparing price/performance you deserve the diseased sack of crap you get.

Marbles · « **Reply #11 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 10:17 pm »

Quote from: Pez

Honestly I think stupid people get what they deserve. If you're retarded enough to go out and pay for anything (cars, audio equipment, hookers) without shopping around first and comparing price/performance you deserve the diseased sack of crap you get.

How do you shop for the price/performance ratio of a hooker without buying the services first?

nathanm · « **Reply #12 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 10:18 pm »

The original question has been answered to my utmost satisfaction. Thanks everyone!

Eduardo AAVM · « **Reply #13 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 10:45 pm »

I first hated BOSE because the lack of specs about it'smodels...
Then the sound
After that I hate the people that just to save space are willing to say that those are the best speakers ever...

If it is just a matter of space then there is Antony Gallo and even a Texas company wich also build cubic speakers....

www.mssystems.com

ehider · « **Reply #14 on:** 26 Feb 2003, 12:12 am »

Here are some analogies and facts to consider on why rational people should hate Bose:

Bose has convinced the American masses that their products are so good that its no different than convincing Americans that a $12 Kmart tennis racket is as good as a $700 carbon fiber high end racket, EXCEPT THEY CHARGE $200 for the $12 tennis racket with a slick marketing program! To the unassuming amatuer, they may actually believe their $200 Piece of crap $12 racket is actually high performance.

Did you know that Bose has the highest profits of any audio manufacturer in the world?

Did you know that Bose design criterea is marketing first, looks second, packaging third, and performance is only to be considered after there is 80%+ mark-up on the product? All products are to be sold to consumers who are completely uneducated about sound reproduction. THIS IS A STRICT RULE. Sell only to the lemmming American masses, period.

Bose compelety mis-represents themselves. They are lying, cheating bastard business people taking advantage of Americans. They talk from a scientific perspective, pay famous musicians to tout their products as if they are breakthrough high performance products, which is a complete and absolute lie!

Lasty, other audio manufacturers could produce identical performing products, sell them for 25% of what Bose charges and still make 50% profit!

Eduardo AAVM · « **Reply #15 on:** 26 Feb 2003, 12:32 am »

Please , can you tell me where did you get those sales figures ? I ever wondered how much money BOSE make, but as not many audio/video companies are big to have their info in quarter or full year operations results in special edition magazines like fortune or businessweek it is hard to know about it...

ehider · « **Reply #16 on:** 26 Feb 2003, 01:49 am »

Eduardo,

This is all public information that is known by tens of thousands of people in both the electronics industry and the financial markets. Spend some time on a search engine and you'll find all sorts of positive accolades regarding Bose's success and ultra high profit ratios.

Another piece of proof: Ever wonder why Porsche chose Bose for their latest $70k+ SUV? Was is really because of Bose's performance? In reality it's all about name recognition and the fact that Bose has a "perception" here in the U.S. of being the Porsche of audio. (God knows I was crushed when I saw a Bose product in the latest Porsche!).

Eduardo AAVM · « **Reply #17 on:** 26 Feb 2003, 01:55 am »

Hi again ehider, I believe what you said I just asked where you find that info because I have never found figures for BOSE altough I read one day that they were more profitable than harman.

Maybe Twice.com or Nasdaq have the numbers...

Eduardo AAVM · « **Reply #18 on:** 26 Feb 2003, 01:57 am »

Very off topic: Well one thing leads to the other...

Maybe this is silly or not interesnting but I ask you : If you were venture capitalist or investor what small/mid audio/video companies would you pick and why ?

ehider · « **Reply #19 on:** 26 Feb 2003, 02:06 am »

None, it's too volitile of a market. Two channel high end audio is collapsing and home theater is a serious moving target with too many cheapo "home theater in a box" systems coming from Asia. (Some are quite impressive for their low low cost).

I do know of one company in Europe that makes to be what I consider revolutionary breakthrough audio products. Unfortunately I am a little too close to this company to make any investmen recommendations look anything but biased.