[geowak]

Might upgrade my Magnepan mmg's to the 3.7i. But wondering in the $5k range what would go well with a Parasound A21. Ideas welcome.
Mostly run digital files. Room is about 16 by 12ft

[steve f]

It sounds like a pretty good combination. I'm not a Maggie guy though. I think the big question is if that model is right for your room. Perhaps you can provide a bit more info about your room, and the music you play.
I'm sure there are members with extensive knowledge about this speaker, or at least it's predecessor.
Good luck.

steve

[Minn Mark]

My room is roughly that size (13 x 20), and I have 3.6/R (precedes 3.7i). I love them; certainly not too much speaker for the room. I agree with what I once read on the Maggie website, that they recommend purchasing "as much resolution" as possible. That is, the largest Maggie one can afford.  My speakers are relatively close the the front wall (30 inches), and my listening position is about 10 feet away. Sound is quite good IMO, without any fancy room treatments, etc. I listen mainly to vinyl but have digital source as well, and use SS amp with roughly 300+ watts into the 4 ohm resistive load.

Mark

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Might upgrade my Magnepan mmg's to the 3.7i. But wondering in the $5k range what would go well with a Parasound A21. Ideas welcome.
Mostly run digital files. Room is about 16 by 12ft

I ran an A21 with my 1.6's.  It was just an OK match. The A21 is an excellent amp but it will make the Maggies sound a little bright.  And I used a tube preamp.  I ended up giving the A21 to my son and bought a used Pass X250 which is light years better than the A21.

[Photon46]

I was a Magnepan owner for twenty years and finally gave up on them. Yes, they're great speakers for a bargain price, but when I owned them it seemed you had to buy something with quality and price like a big Pass Labs amp to get the best out of them. That need for an expensive powerful amp and their less than decor friendly visual style finally turned me to less power hungry, more traditional speakers. Maggies have many virtues but playing at their best with mid priced class A or A/B amplification isn't one of them. Personally, I don't think mid priced amps like Parasound or even Bryston allow Maggies to sound their best. 3.7's would be a bit large for your room IMO, but I'm sure others will disagree. I am intrigued with the potential something like D-Sonic, Red Dragon, or Cherry Digital might have with Maggies. Others have lauded this sort of pairing but I've not heard it myself as of yet.

[steve f]

It's possible to have too much speaker for the room. I've been in rooms that lose their spatial characteristics, and remind me of headphones. The mix is no longer in front of you, but pushing from almost alongside. I don't know if Maggies do this. Might also have a negative effect on low frequencies.

I didn't realize that Maggie's could be that amp sensitive either.

[SteveFord]

You'll end up with too much bass if you go too big.
3.7s will be okay in that room.
You do need to match Magnepans with the right amp and preamp - as you go up the ladder with the speakers you need to do the same with the other components or else you'll hear their shortcomings.
Having said that, I've no idea about Parasound gear.

[geowak]

I measured the room again. Opps it's 17 by 14.

[Quiet Earth]

Might upgrade my Magnepan mmg's to the 3.7i. But wondering in the $5k range what would go well with a Parasound A21. Ideas welcome.

Hi geowak,

I don't want to talk you out of a new pair of 3.7s (especially on the planar circle) but have you ever considered open baffle speakers? They have a similar "open" box-less quality that most planars do but without the amplifier matching issues. The reason why I chimed in here is because I can really identify with this post :

I was a Magnepan owner for twenty years and finally gave up on them. Yes, they're great speakers for a bargain price, but when I owned them it seemed you had to buy something with quality and price like a big Pass Labs amp to get the best out of them. That need for an expensive powerful amp and their less than decor friendly visual style finally turned me to less power hungry, more traditional speakers. Maggies have many virtues but playing at their best with mid priced class A or A/B amplification isn't one of them.

Similar to your situation Photon, I owned SoundLab electrostats for over ten years and while I loved their quick and airy "box-less" sound I always felt like I had the wrong amplifier to power them. After a while I realized that if SoundLab couldn't figure out which was the best amp to make them work, how was I supposed to figure it out? Like you I eventually gave up on my planars because I got tired of chasing amplifiers.

I'm not saying that you should give up geo, but possibly consider upgrading your amplifier or trying a different type of boxless speaker altogether like an open baffle design. (I know we are in the planar circle, my apologies.)  I spent some time listening to the Spatial Audio M3 at the Newport show and man, if I ever wanted to get back into the seductive planar sound I would skip the panel altogether and get the open baffle M3.

If you ever go to an audio show you should check them out. They are way under your budget and they open the door to all kinds of amplifiers that you can use, including the ones you already own. They sounded great with an 8 watt S.E.T. and a two hundred watt modern class D amp.

I have no affiliation with the company, I was just pleasantly surprised (more like blown away) by the great value of that speaker. I am tempted to get a pair for myself but I know in my heart that I don't need two pairs of speakers in my room.

Anyway, good luck with your quest.

[Austin08]

Having bough a pair of Magnepan 3.7i not long ago and I come to agree with many poster above - maggie need good amplifier to sing. I have tried W4S ST1000, BAT VK55 mono block, McIntosh 6700 int and ARC DS450. I found the ARC amp is a really good match to 3.7i. It is worth to note that I also own a pair of Salk Soundscape 8. Both speakers are world class speaker and sound very natural and detail. With right equipments, the Salk has more slam and a bit more aggressive. The Maggie is more forgiving, warmer and better at off axis listening than the Salk. Being said that, Imo, I would give the Salk 10 and the Maggie 9  (1-10 scale) and I could live easily with either one of them. Just my 2cts.

[stereodiver]

I have 1.6's and I have amplified them with a VAC Super Avatar Integrated Amplifier and with Exposure Mono Blocks. The VAC outputs 80 watts and the Exposures output 55 watts each. Both have handled the Maggies excellently. The question I tender is since these amplifiers seem to produce enough current to make the Maggies sing, how much more quality would I be able to get from higher rated watt amplifiers? Any suggestions? Would there be a noticeable change with more output?

[steve f]

I've only listened to Soundlabs at audio shows. I know show conditions aren't always the best. They were always demonstrated with a well known tube amp. The sound never was very good. Not as in bad, but something was always missing. Quiet Earth is onto something.

Planar speakers, just my opinion, seem to show the effects of amplifier clipping more readily than cone speakers. I really notice much better sound when a powerful amp is just loafing along.

Back on topic sort of, what are the benefits of the Maggie 3.7i vs its smaller sibling?

steve

[SteveFord]

Extended bass, resolution and that ribbon.
You'll hear things on the 3.7s that you won't on the 1.7s and you'll hear things on the 20.7s that the 3.7s miss.
The 20.7s are in a different league than their smaller siblings. 
The downside is their price AND they need a gigantic room to play nice in.  Stick them in a 3.7 sized room and you'll drive yourself crazy trying to make them work right.  Ask me how I know...

For power, I guess it's all what you listen to, how loud you listen to things and what size room you have.
I like loud rock and roll so I asked Ms. Manley at Manley Labs what she'd recommend.  She said for what I do the 100s would be marginal, I'd really want the 250s. 
I ended up with some early VTL 300s and then added some 250s for the other system.  It worked out well.

[DustyC]

Be sure that you keep the MMG's around if you get the 3.7's so you can compare directly. 
I have 3.6R's and the amount of power I've used on them has been more to satisfy my curiosity than to address the lack of any shortcomings due to the lack of wattage.
I listen at about 90-95 db max and about 100 watts or so will do the job. My room is about the same size as yours.   

[KLH007]

Please consider the Hybrid planars from GT Audio Works, Model 2.5. They are showing at the 2015 Capital Audiofest in late August, go to their website to see why I think they are special and a cut above.

[Robin Hood]

you'll hear things on the 20.7s that the 3.7s miss.

The downside is their price AND they need a gigantic room to play nice in.  Stick them in a 3.7 sized room and you'll drive yourself crazy trying to make them work right.  Ask me how I know...

What are your definitions of a gigantic room and a 3.7 sized room in terms of length and width? With the 20.7 in a 3.7 sized room how will that drive us crazy trying to make them work right and is this any different than the typical audiophile that is never satisfied? Finally if I will hear things on the 20.7s that the 3.7s miss why would I be satisfied with that or why wouldn't that drive me crazy?

[SteveFord]

By any chance did you see my posts on trying to get 20.7s to work in my living room?
I struggled for months and finally gave up and went back to 3.7s.
To briefly recap, you'll need a good 24x26' room (at a minimum, in my opinion), if you put them in a smaller room you will be overwhelmed with bass output plus you'll have to sit at an unusually high position because the mylar starts at a much higher point than the 3.7s, what may or may not drive you or anyone else crazy I can not answer.
Knocking out the front of my house to expand my living room for a set of speakers just isn't going to happen!
Take a look at Berni's or Thunderbrick's rooms - those are 20.7 sized.
If you don't own a house with a large enough space for these speakers you will want the 3.7s.
It is possible to have too much speaker for a given space.
I forgot to add: just like it's possible to have too little speaker for a given space.
The trick is finding the right size.  For my house (see my systems page) it's 1.7s upstairs, 3.7s downstairs, MMG and CC5 for the boob tube/movies/casual listening.

[Robin Hood]

Thanks. I did see your Jan 12, 2014 post which said based on your experience the minimal room size is 27'x18' and anything larger would be a plus. I also saw the TAS review dated Feb 3, 2015 based on the 20.7 in a 25'x16' room.

I struggle with your description of too much bass since except for the Tympani series many people find Maggies lacking in bass compared some other speakers with dynamic woofers. I'm not sure what too much bass means especially to those who crave powerful bass with good transient response.  Of course I realize that everyone has different preferences and there is never one size fits all.

I guess unlike the DWM woofers there is no way to attenuate the bass in the 20.7 which could be one way to lessen the bass you describe. Perhaps Magnepan could include this in a future model or upgrade.  I assume some people miss the ability to bi-amp the x.7 series speakers which would provide better flexibility and control in matching speakers, amps and room and perhaps that may be preferred for a future model or upgrade.

[SteveFord]

Wendell's description is spot on: A Trombone In A Telephone Booth.

I ran some other ideas past Wendell on trying to get 20.1s to work in my room and at the end I finally had to accept the fact that they are simply voiced for a larger area than what I have available and I'd just end up driving myself crazy and wouldn't be satisfied with the outcome. 
Maybe someday I'll have a house with a larger room and then I'll move back on up to the big boys.

[Rusty Jefferson]

Also wouldn't want to talk you out of something you're sure of, but it would be worth considering the GT Audio speakers. Your a21 is more than enough to run them. They have built in amplifiers for the woofers, so your amp is only running the planer midrange and ribbon tweeters. Several of us who have heard both preferred the GT Audio.

Please consider the Hybrid planars from GT Audio Works, Model 2.5. They are showing at the 2015 Capital Audiofest in late August, go to their website to see why I think they are special and a cut above.