Where to start?

John151 · « **on:** 21 Jul 2015, 03:01 am »

I have been kicking around the idea of getting into head phones for quite a few years now. The problem I have is that I really don't know where to start and each time I start researching I go into analysis paralysis and lose interest. I almost pulled the trigger on Amazon's black Friday event last week, but couldn't determine what I really wanted, so I let a few good deals expire before my eyes. I know that when I build my main audio system, it took several iterations and lots of money before I was pleased. I am hoping to streamline the process with headphones. Thus, I am looking for recommendations on building an entry level HP system (amp, HP, DAC, anything else?).

Background:

Budget - Looking to spend $500 total and prefer to purchase audio gear on the used market (AC and Audiogon mostly).
Usage - Initially, listening will be limited to my den. No audio equipment exists in this room at this point. I don't need mobility and am happy to go corded for improved sound.
Source - My laptop will be the source (iTunes library with loss-less files). I can feed either directly off my laptop or via an SB3.
Audio Preferences - I prefer the tube sound when driving speakers. Wondering if I would also prefer tubes with headphones? I have a small stash of 12AU7 tubes, so gear with 12AU7 tubes is a plus.

Any input will be greatly appreciated.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Jul 2015, 11:44 am »

I think an important distinction to first make before heading down the Head-Fi path is to determine if you want open or closed back phones.

For open back phones, you will contend with poor isolation, but likely a better soundstage. Closed back phones naturally trend mildly in the opposite direction. Will you listen in places with background noise, or will it likely be quiet where you intend to listen?

For an open backed setup in your price range, i would consider Grado headphones as an affordable and widely available trial. I really liked what I heard when I owned 60i, 80i and Allesandro MS1. I paired them with a Millett Max hybrid headamp with a modded SB3 as the source. The exact headamp I used is currently in the Head Fi classifieds, from the guy in NYC I sold it to. Good deal, and mates very well with Grado's.

I currently use a closed back set of phones. I am using Sennheiser on ear Momentums with a Zen headamp. Excellent sound with my iTouch (4th gen).

Both available under your price point, and both deliver what I consider to be good sound on a budget.

Head Fi classifieds are very active, and lots of options there once you narrow the search.

I simply needed an isolated music experience so my setup changed over the years.

For portable use, I am running Westone UM1's direct out of my iPhone 5s. Great for trains and planes.

KR500 · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Jul 2015, 11:52 am »

Do you wear glasses ?
For some that do, there are some headphones that may be uncomfortable over a listening session
I've heard that Grado is one and that was from a dealer
I think the well regarded US designed and built headphone amps from Garage27 like the Project Sunrise and Ember use 12AU7 tubes

JohnR · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Jul 2015, 11:54 am »

The garage1217 amps (that use tubes) can use a great variety of tubes - that is one of their strengths. However 12au7s will work well in them.

adydula · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Jul 2015, 12:13 pm »

If your budget is $500.....

The most important part of the chain is your headphones and source.

I would spend the money on a good set of headphones and try them with your existing laptop..and see if your ok with that source.

If you can find a friend to try headphones in your device now that would be a good idea to do... try and see if your laptop will drive headphones to your taste.

If your laptop is not that great and you have lossless files on the laptop then getting the sound from USB to a dac then an amp is the path.

Amps like the O2 and ODAC are relatively cheap and work very well.... www.jdslabs.com in the USA. Other vendors WW.

A combo O2 and ODAC costs $279. So you have $200 for headphones, which is on the low end side but there are some good candidates out there.

So you have some choices and decisions to make.... its very personal and your tastes etc.

If the sound out of your laptop is ok to you then you will have more $$$ to buy some "better: headphones like Beyer T90's or Senn 600 or Senn 650 etc...

Good luck and all the best.

Alex

mcgsxr · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Jul 2015, 12:32 pm »

Another idea I overlooked is the Audioquest Dragonfly (either version). I owned the V1, and it was quite good.

It could plug right into your laptop as the source, and provides a 1/8th headphone output.

That should leave $300-$350 for headphones.

timind · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Jul 2015, 01:46 pm »

As you say used I recommend a Nuforce HDP (used $150-175) and ideally a pair of Sennheiser HD600 or 650s. The HDP has an excellent dac with both USB and SPDIF input and class A headphone amp. The amp mates well with the Senns.
I tried a Bottlehead Crack with Speedball upgrade which uses a 12AU7 tube but I prefer the HDP with my HD650s. While my Crack was dead silent, it lacked the dynamic drive of the HDP IMO.

brother love · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Jul 2015, 02:06 pm »

Here is a good source for headphone reviews: http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared

A $500 budget for dac/ headamp/ cans, even allowing for used equipment, will most likely result in this system being temporary.

Schiit Audio makes some good relatively cheap dacs & tube/ss amps that can be had fairly cheaply on head-fi.org.

I'd probably focus on spending the lion's share of your budget on a good set of used headphones that fits your listening preferences. Then I would make sure the headamp is a good synergy with the ohm rating, etc. of your cans. Decent dacs are inexpensive & would be where I would spend the least amount.

Edit: here is an option to consider ...

Buy a Schiit Audio Magni 2 headamp & Modi2 dac for $99 each: http://schiit.com/products/magni-2

Apply remaining $300 to a good used pair of headphones that suit your tastes. That would be an excellent entry system on a tight $500 budget. Upgrade amp & dac later if you so desire.

KR500 · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Jul 2015, 04:44 pm »

Quote

here is an option to consider ...

Buy a Schiit Audio Magni 2 headamp & Modi2 dac for $99 each: http://schiit.com/products/magni-2

Apply remaining $300 to a good used pair of headphones that suit your tastes. That would be an excellent entry system on a tight $500 budget. Upgrade amp & dac later if you so desire.

This is a good piece of advice me thinks
I'm a fan of Schitt Audio, like Garage 127 they are designed and built in this country and are dependable good sounding gear

John151 · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Jul 2015, 01:31 am »

Wow, excellent input provided here! This gives me the jump start that I needed. Very much appreciated.

Thanks.

eclein · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Jul 2015, 01:47 am »

Quote from: brother love on 21 Jul 2015, 02:06 pm

Edit: here is an option to consider ...

Buy a Schiit Audio Magni 2 headamp & Modi2 dac for $99 each: http://schiit.com/products/magni-2

Apply remaining $300 to a good used pair of headphones that suit your tastes. That would be an excellent entry system on a tight $500 budget. Upgrade amp & dac later if you so desire.

Excellent idea brother love!!!
If you do the above or similar then start thinking about headphones you heard and hated, and why.
Then the ones you liked and why......simple ideas, "it looked cool" "I heard some tune that blew me away...."
If you had any experience with any kind of headphone or in ear bud.... pros and cons......
Lay some out here and maybe we can direct you to the neighborhood so you can fine the ballpark.....it might take a few at bats to get your first home run.
Any local shops where you can listen???

brooklyn · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 Jul 2015, 02:36 am »

I just noticed the HIFiMan HE-400 Headphones right now on Amazon for
$249.00 Might be something to look into if your interested. I would love
to give these a try myself..

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007ZG32I4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_5&smid=AQG144I0DN37H

ajzepp · « **Reply #12 on:** 25 Jul 2015, 06:55 am »

Quote from: brooklyn on 24 Jul 2015, 02:36 am

I just noticed the HIFiMan HE-400 Headphones right now on Amazon for
$249.00 Might be something to look into if your interested. I would love
to give these a try myself..

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007ZG32I4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_5&smid=AQG144I0DN37H

This.

I recently bought a pair that unfortunately had a driver fail. Hifiman was more than happy to fix it under warranty though. The problem was that I thought I was being smart by sending them a few extra bucks in order to move up to the newer HE-400i...that was a big mistake. The HE-400 is a better headphone...the trick is that you really should get the velour pads that are offered as an option. The pleather pads that come stock don't allow you to hear this phone for what it really is.

Being that you fancy electrostats (at least I think you do!), I think you'd really like these.

brooklyn · « **Reply #13 on:** 25 Jul 2015, 11:44 am »

I’ve had the Hifiman HE-400 Headphones in my Amazon basket for awhile now then notice the $50.00 price
reduction which made it very tempting. I thought the OP might be interested.. I’m pretty happy with the two
pairs of headphone that I have and just purchased a new TV and Laptop otherwise those HE-400’s would be
on there way to my home..

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #14 on:** 25 Jul 2015, 12:02 pm »

Quote from: ajzepp on 25 Jul 2015, 06:55 am

This.

I recently bought a pair that unfortunately had a driver fail. Hifiman was more than happy to fix it under warranty though. The problem was that I thought I was being smart by sending them a few extra bucks in order to move up to the newer HE-400i...that was a big mistake. The HE-400 is a better headphone...the trick is that you really should get the velour pads that are offered as an option. The pleather pads that come stock don't allow you to hear this phone for what it really is.

Being that you fancy electrostats (at least I think you do!), I think you'd really like these.

A matter of taste, I like the 400i better. The 400 has more bass, the i model has a smoother frequency response. But what really interests me in the low end of the line is the new 400s. $299 and can be driven by portable devices like cell phones. Haven't heard it yet, but looks promising.

brother love · « **Reply #15 on:** 25 Jul 2015, 12:40 pm »

Quote from: brooklyn on 24 Jul 2015, 02:36 am

I just noticed the HIFiMan HE-400 Headphones right now on Amazon for
$249.00 Might be something to look into if your interested. I would love
to give these a try myself..

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007ZG32I4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_5&smid=AQG144I0DN37H

Wow, that is a killer deal! Great find.

The HE-400 at $399 was only one of the five headphones with a value rating of A+ in the battle of the flagship headphones that I referenced earlier: http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared#user_HE400

Blu99Zoomer · « **Reply #16 on:** 26 Jul 2015, 07:14 pm »

John151,

I have seen the HE-400 headphones for sale here on AC for $200 in good used condition. But I would agree with others that the 400s sure sounds interesting for their heritage, price, and flexibility of use. I look forward to giving them a listen at the next head-fi meet I attend. Those meets are great places to try out gear, ask questions of other headphone users, and hangout with folks of similar likes. Good luck in your search for headphone nirvana.

Best,

Blu99Zoomer

JohnR · « **Reply #17 on:** 27 Jul 2015, 04:37 pm »

I think there's a new version of the 400 coming out, the HE-400s. I don't know anything about it but RRP here in AU looks to be AUD 429 which suggests (OK I googled it) USD 299. Just FYI.

Blu99Zoomer · « **Reply #18 on:** 27 Jul 2015, 11:18 pm »

Yes sir. That's the headphone I was describing. But I left off the HE-. Sorry. Is the price in your range? That is if you give it a listen and like what you hear.

Best,

Blu99Zoomer

John151 · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 Aug 2015, 01:53 pm »

Update: I purchased a pair of Sennheiser HD 558 from Fry's for just under $100 and also purchased a Schiit Fulla direct from Schiit. Total investment is just under $200. Long term plan is to have two set ups - one for my desk at work and one for my office at home. The Fulla will be for work, so I am still in the market for a DAC/AMP solution for home (but not in a hurry). The HD 558 will also probably be for work as well.

I am very pleased with both so far, although I don't have much time with either one. I ordered the Schiit a while ago, but the USPS delivered to the wrong house and ended up being "returned to sender" so it took a while to get them.

The Schiit Fulla works very well. No drivers needed on the Win 7 and Win 8 laptops I have tried it with. A-B tests show that the sound difference between the Laptop headphone port and the Fulla is significant. The volume knob on the fulla is also a nice feature.