[ricardojoa]

Just wondering whats the word about having more expensive components on crossovers. Does it make any difference over the standard and less expensives one?

[Early B.]

Just wondering whats the word about having more expensive components on crossovers. Does it make any difference over the standard and less expensives one?

Yes.

[Tyson]

I'd agree - High quality Teflon caps or Oil caps using silver or copper are usually quite a step up.  But they are expensive.  You might be better off getting a small value premium cap and using it as a bypass on the stock caps, rather than replacing the entire cap.  Usually a bypass value 1/10th the value of the main cap is fine.

[DaveC113]

+3, for sure... I'd go with copper foil caps or Clarity ESA if they are too expensive, possibly with a smaller copper/silver foil bypass but I wouldn't do this without experimenting.

Foil inductors and Duelund (or Mills) resistors would round out my choices.

[mresseguie]

As long as this thread is on a roll...what impact does a heavier gauge inductor (or even foil) have on SQ?

I've read that Dueland (or similar) caps dramatically improve SQ. I'm guessing I can only find out for sure by dabbling on my own, yes? I don't know anyone nearby who has done this with their crossovers.

Tyson,

Could you talk more about "small premium cap...bypass ...a bypass value 1/10 the value of the main cap." I'm too much the newbie to grasp this significance.

Thanks,

Michael

[ricardojoa]

Thank you for the info.
Honestly, i dont know much about the xovers components much.
I took a look at my tempesta xover and was wondering if anything could be mproved from what Rick uses.

[Tyson]

As long as this thread is on a roll...what impact does a heavier gauge inductor (or even foil) have on SQ?

I've read that Dueland (or similar) caps dramatically improve SQ. I'm guessing I can only find out for sure by dabbling on my own, yes? I don't know anyone nearby who has done this with their crossovers.

Tyson,

Could you talk more about "small premium cap...bypass ...a bypass value 1/10 the value of the main cap." I'm too much the newbie to grasp this significance.

Thanks,

Michael

The crossover capacitors have a value that is stated in microFarads, or uF for short.  A typical cap for the tweeter will be 5uf or 10f.  Midrange and bass are 15uF or 20uF or sometimes higher.  Lets say you have a tweeter capacitor of 10uF.  You don't replace it, you leave it in place, but solder a smaller capacitor "around" it so the smaller (bypass) capacitor is in parallel. 

But when you solder 2 caps together like this, their values add together.  Which is why you want your premium bypass cap to be pretty small - if you change the value of the main capacitor too much, it will make changes to your crossover point!  Usually 1/10th of the value of the main cap is small enough to not cause any problems.  So in our example, a tweeter cap of 10uF for the main value would work best with a bypass cap or 1uf (or smaller!). 

For resistors and inductors - I find inductors make a moderate amount of difference and resistors almost none.  Capacitors are where the big changes are possible, so focus there first.

[Rick Craig]

Just wondering whats the word about having more expensive components on crossovers. Does it make any difference over the standard and less expensives one?

Just because a part is more expensive doesn't mean that it's automatically better.Prices can be higher for many reasons - greed, cost of manufacturing (labor, equipment, small production runs, inefficiency, government taxes/duties, etc.). None of these have any bearing on what makes the component  better than a comparable part of lower cost.

[ricardojoa]

Just because a part is more expensive doesn't mean that it's automatically better.Prices can be higher for many reasons - greed, cost of manufacturing (labor, equipment, small production runs, inefficiency, government taxes/duties, etc.). None of these have any bearing on what makes the component  better than a comparable part of lower cost.

I agree with you Rick.
Maybe I should have put it better. What's the word with higher end capacitor like sonic craft and some of those mentioned in this post.
I know that some vender offer crossovers part upgrades, so I was wondering what that will do an already good sound.

[mresseguie]

Rick,

Thank you for that info. I know you have a lot of experience with crossovers and their components. I felt a bit guilty asking as this thread is in your circle and I'm about to receive one of your creations [but I'm not going to play with the crossover in the Ancora]. I may experiment with my Adelphos' crossovers though.

[Rick Craig]

Here's a quote from my blog on the Selah Audio website...

One of the questions I'm often asked is something like "what crossover parts do you use or what upgrades do you offer"? Before I founded Selah Audio I worked as a component buyer in the electronics industry. Part of my responsibility included working with design engineers to find suitable parts for a variety of products.

Some of the equipment we manufactured worked at very high frequencies way beyond the audio band. Slight deviations in passive components (resistors, inductors, and capacitors) often became critical to circuit performance.

The same can be true for high end audio; however, it seems that the claims made for exotic parts often have no scientific basis and lack the documentation to show that there's an audible difference (let alone if it's even closer to the source material you're listening to). Of course there are many opinions on this subject and if you ask 99 audiophiles you might receive 100 answers. Stay tuned as I discuss my thoughts on this and other subjects in the coming year...

[Rick Craig]

In my experience bypass caps make no audible improvement. Same for many of the exotic caps. If your speaker has electrolytic caps in a tweeter or midrange circuit switching to a film cap can actually change the response in a negative way. It all depends on how the circuit was designed and quality of the electrolytic parts. I have modified speakers from B&W and Wharefdale where the ESR resistance of the cap was factored into the response. in those cases I observed about 2db of increased output when replacing the caps.

 Changing inductors can actually make things worse depending on how the circuit was designed - lower resistance is not always better. Resistors are pretty straightforward which is why you don't see as much snake oil with them.

[bladesmith]

For resistors and inductors - I find inductors make a moderate amount of difference and resistors almost none.  Capacitors are where the big changes are possible, so focus there first.

+1

[maxboy00]

It is great that OEMs on this site make this kind option available to any perspective buyer. This is one element of custom design that, I think, would need good understanding of how such changes impact the sound of the speaker.

For me, I will leave it to the speaker designer that the best drivers /parts are being used to achieve the sound intended are included in the original design.

[Rick Craig]

As long as this thread is on a roll...what impact does a heavier gauge inductor (or even foil) have on SQ?

I've read that Dueland (or similar) caps dramatically improve SQ. I'm guessing I can only find out for sure by dabbling on my own, yes? I don't know anyone nearby who has done this with their crossovers.

Tyson,

Could you talk more about "small premium cap...bypass ...a bypass value 1/10 the value of the main cap." I'm too much the newbie to grasp this significance.

Thanks,

Michael

One of the problems is that the cap manufacturers virtually offer no metrics to show how their parts are superior. I have participated in a few blind tests with caps and having seen (and heard) the results is why I am skeptical of most claims. There are a few companies who do some scientific testing; however, nothing has ever come out to show one type clearly superior to another.

[Rick Craig]

Thank you for the info.
Honestly, i dont know much about the xovers components much.
I took a look at my tempesta xover and was wondering if anything could be mproved from what Rick uses.

You are free to make changes; however, I think your time and money will be better invested elsewhere.

[jonbee]

I agree with the post that says that caps make the most difference. That said, higher price does not necessarily mean better sound. As I have said here often, things like cap selection and wiring/cabling is more like using spices in cooking- matchups are everything.
I have found that moving to "mid priced" caps such as Sonicaps or Claritycaps (which Rick uses, I think) offer much better focus and clarity than the cheap caps most mfrs. use. Moving up to teflons, oil caps, etc. certainly change the sound, and may provide a positive change, but only if matched up. Cap rolling, like cable changes, can be time consuming and expensive because of this uncertainty.
I find Sonicaps and Clarity caps offer reliably good, neutral sound at an acceptable price, notably better than cheaper Solens and Axons, for instance. Spending more has been a mixed bag for me.

[Rick Craig]

One thing to keep in mind is if your goal is accuracy then the better (more revealing part) might actually make things sound worse. The problems in recordings are far greater in terms of audibility versus a simple parts change. Food for thought. 

[Rick Craig]

I agree with the post that says that caps make the most difference. That said, higher price does not necessarily mean better sound. As I have said here often, things like cap selection and wiring/cabling is more like using spices in cooking- matchups are everything.
I have found that moving to "mid priced" caps such as Sonicaps or Claritycaps (which Rick uses, I think) offer much better focus and clarity than the cheap caps most mfrs. use. Moving up to teflons, oil caps, etc. certainly change the sound, and may provide a positive change, but only if matched up. Cap rolling, like cable changes, can be time consuming and expensive because of this uncertainty.
I find Sonicaps and Clarity caps offer reliably good, neutral sound at an acceptable price, notably better than cheaper Solens and Axons, for instance. Spending more has been a mixed bag for me.

Most of the parts I use are made by Clarity. In some situations I use other brands if I cannot get the same component value from Clarity. There are also situations where the case size is too large and then alternative caps are used. If customers want something different I try to accommodate their requests as much as possible. BTW, the best sounding caps I've ever heard were 30+ year-old Solens - incredible break-in! jk 

[ricardojoa]

Thanks Rick,

sometimes I think that different xover part might have an impact but not necessarily on  the audio quality but just a different  sound.
Speaker are like good wine, sound prefer this and some prefer that.....
The tempest is quiet good achievement. The only complaint I personally have I thing I've told and that is most likely my problem.