CLASS D

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TAULISA

CLASS D
« on: 11 May 2015, 03:29 pm »
Forthcoming regulations from the European Union and other governing entities looking at the power consumption of electronic equipment while at idle. 
If the regulations started becoming more stringent or hitting the audio market, then Class D would be the only wisest design left to opt for !

German regulations are ready towards such electric restrictions.


Rclark

Re: CLASS D
« Reply #1 on: 11 May 2015, 05:07 pm »
Ncores use like 3 watts at idle, but expand from there to 500+++ watts, legit power, and are the audio equivalent of Lasik eye surgery. Get those.

sfox7076

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Re: CLASS D
« Reply #2 on: 11 May 2015, 09:55 pm »
I hope not.  LASIK fails an awful lot.

Randy

Re: CLASS D
« Reply #3 on: 11 May 2015, 10:07 pm »
Forthcoming regulations from the European Union and other governing entities looking at the power consumption of electronic equipment while at idle. 
If the regulations started becoming more stringent or hitting the audio market, then Class D would be the only wisest design left to opt for !

German regulations are ready towards such electric restrictions.

They're nuts over there. That's why Klaus moved over here.   :)

G Georgopoulos

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Re: CLASS D
« Reply #4 on: 12 May 2015, 12:58 am »
At Idle the consumption of a three stage conventional class-b is less than the idle of class-d
,dont be concerned unless you have a class-a with max consumption at idle... :green:

klaus@odyssey

Re: CLASS D
« Reply #5 on: 12 May 2015, 08:25 am »
will never happen...also,  not really why I came over here.......people are completely nuts the world over...there wouldn't be a safe haven on this planet....

FullRangeMan

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Re: CLASS D
« Reply #6 on: 12 May 2015, 08:50 am »
will never happen...also,  not really why I came over here.......people are completely nuts the world over...there wouldn't be a safe haven on this planet....
Agreed in my country Gov, intelectuals, actors and TV lost their moral and ethical values.

TAULISA

Re: CLASS D
« Reply #7 on: 12 May 2015, 08:55 am »
Not that I want to favour it but much has been written about the Class D topology so we won’t go in lots of detail. 
All we need to know is that there are two clear benefits of Class D:

First is its high efficiency when compared to traditional Class A or Class AB designs. 
This translates into less electrical use.
Secondly, because of its high efficiency Class D amplifiers don’t give off anywhere near the waste heat as Class A and Class AB designs. 
As a result, you can have incredibly powerful amps that are relatively small in size, light in weight, and don’t have massive heat sinks.

Believe it or not this is what the EUROPEAN ENERGY LABEL aims at and the German, Dutch as well as Danish entities such as BANG & OLUFSEN
are the first to abide by in Europe with regards to domestic appliances.

No kidding....






« Last Edit: 14 May 2015, 09:34 am by TAULISA »

JohnR

Re: CLASS D
« Reply #8 on: 12 May 2015, 09:32 am »
Is that label from an amplifier?

The thing about energy consumption ratings that (seems to be) forgotten is that the rating a. assumes a certain usage pattern and b. doesn't consider the total energy consumption. At least here, it seems to be relative, that is the rating is intended to provide a guide to consumers for purchasing within a specific product type. However I question whether the rating serves any real purpose other than as a reminder to say "OK well maybe I should work out what this will really cost over time."

It seems to me, for example, that it would be odd to worry about the energy consumption of a class A/B amplifier, when you have things like refrigerators and clothes dryers in the house. I am not suggesting that energy usage (or cost) be ignored, just that actual figures based on usage be looked at if energy consumption is a concern.

(I write this having just gone through the exercise of selecting a new washing machine and clothes dryer.)

poseidonsvoice

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Re: CLASS D
« Reply #9 on: 12 May 2015, 09:57 am »


It seems to me, for example, that it would be odd to worry about the energy consumption of a class A/B amplifier, when you have things like refrigerators and clothes dryers in the house. I am not suggesting that energy usage (or cost) be ignored, just that actual figures based on usage be looked at if energy consumption is a concern.

(I write this having just gone through the exercise of selecting a new washing machine and clothes dryer.)

That's a great way to look at it. Besides, it's not like we're listening to our stereos all the time or having a block party daily.

But we do laundry daily and run our HVAC more than we should.

Best,
Anand.

TAULISA

Re: CLASS D
« Reply #10 on: 12 May 2015, 10:42 am »
Hey guys !

Oddly enough that's the way domestic appliances are meanrt to be in Europe nowadays either you have a kitchen or an audio-video appliance in your dining room.
The less energy you waste on stand-bye the better and more efficient your appliance is being considered !

The CE European regulations don't care if by keeping your monoblocks turned on night and day you have immediate and better auditionings !

Funny enough it's all Klaus Bunge's native country fault that lays down these regulations in Europe !
Just kiddin' !

Anyhow as an export manager when the boss called GERMANY says: do it that way we do it !

Toby
« Last Edit: 12 May 2015, 12:01 pm by TAULISA »

macrojack

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Re: CLASS D
« Reply #11 on: 12 May 2015, 11:53 am »
Kudos to Germany for recognizing this need and acting on it. We have a finite supply of fossil fuels and a demand that grows exponentially with the population.

All of our power sources in use today are stored solar energy. That includes oil, coal, wood, etc. Once we use it up it is gone forever. Measures such as the subject of this thread can help to put the brakes on our depletion but nothing short of a switch to solar energy can save us long term. Better that we conserve our stored fossil energy for production of renewable energy hardware than squander it all running class A amps and unnecessary anachronistic tubes. It's time for all of us on earth to shelve the personal preferences in deference to the long term survival of our habitat.

Class D, while still a luxury, at least reduces our wastefulness. However, if you really must use electricity to put sweet sounds in your life (that surely includes everyone reading this), produce the juice yourself. Investigate the possibility of installing solar panels on your roof or buying into a solar collective. You'll feel good about doing so and the whole planet will benefit from your wisdom.

megabigeye

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Re: CLASS D
« Reply #12 on: 12 May 2015, 12:36 pm »
Is that label from an amplifier?

The thing about energy consumption ratings that (seems to be) forgotten is that the rating a. assumes a certain usage pattern and b. doesn't consider the total energy consumption. At least here, it seems to be relative, that is the rating is intended to provide a guide to consumers for purchasing within a specific product type. However I question whether the rating serves any real purpose other than as a reminder to say "OK well maybe I should work out what this will really cost over time."

It seems to me, for example, that it would be odd to worry about the energy consumption of a class A/B amplifier, when you have things like refrigerators and clothes dryers in the house. I am not suggesting that energy usage (or cost) be ignored, just that actual figures based on usage be looked at if energy consumption is a concern.

(I write this having just gone through the exercise of selecting a new washing machine and clothes dryer.)
I recently got to sit in on a lecture of a gentleman that (I believe) helped design that label.  He is the author of this book, if you're interested.

The purpose of those labels is so that customers can do more comparative shopping in the store.  I believe the labels are supposed to appear on all goods that consume electricity.  The example he gave in his lecture was of a washing machine that is inexpensive to purchase, but due to consumption cost more to own than a machine that is more efficient with higher purchase price.  It's supposed to bring to the fore the cost of ownership, rather than the retail price.  It's in an effort to help consumers make wiser/greener purchasing decisions.  In certain countries in the EU, your washer and drier would have come with similar labels.

JohnR

Re: CLASS D
« Reply #13 on: 12 May 2015, 01:04 pm »
I agree with the principle, I merely suggest caution in the interpretation :) My washer and dryer did indeed come with energy consumption labels, here in AU we have a star rating.

I worry that I may have inadvertently become involved in a topic that may require intervention at some point, but let me try to be as objective as possible. In the case of the washing machine we purchased, it has a fairly ordinary rating, of two stars. (Other washers can go up to six, I think.) This is based on energy usage if used every day, with a warm wash. However, most of our washing is done with a cold wash. When you look at the ratings more closely, you see that the warm wash uses 500 (ish) kWh/year, whereas the cold wash uses 57kWh/year. So with our actual usage, the machine that I bought is (or seems to be, based on the numbers I have available to me) MORE efficient than a higher rated "5 star" machine, but which doesn't actually do a cold wash (like the front loader we had until recently).

Suppose this energy rating system extended to everything. I bought another power tool today, a cordless jigsaw. I have no idea if it's more or less efficient than any other model since there's no rating on it, but suppose that it was rated. Should I choose a cordless jigsaw based on its energy rating? Surely anyone can see that it makes no sense, since the TOTAL energy usage would be less than ... well, who knows, but let's say 0.01% of the dryer or washer. So buying a cordless jigsaw that is TWICE as efficient makes absolutely no difference, relatively speaking.

Where do audio amplifiers fall in this? I dunno, I've never worked it out.

Phil A

Re: CLASS D
« Reply #14 on: 12 May 2015, 01:21 pm »
I think it gets out of hand.  Why not encourage less consumption other ways via the use of some sort of tax credit as discussed in this thread - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=133194.0

There are also other technologies like - http://www.bloomenergy.com/  which may eventually find its way into the home market too.

I went solar with the house build (still needs juice from the electric company to work and I have a generator panel with a portable generator than can run everything except the AC in an emergency) a couple of years back,  My bill through mid April was $24.20 and it was $36 and change the month before with a pool pump running 8 hours.

Even better windows and more efficient AC units work.  I did that in my old house and my bills went down about 30%.  I think less usage should be the goal but not at the expense of having an appliance that doesn't clean or dry clothes as well (and I replaced a dryer in the old place about 18 months before I moved and it was rated better but took longer to dry not to mention it had tons of electronics that could break and end up in some landfill). 


macrojack

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Re: CLASS D
« Reply #15 on: 12 May 2015, 01:42 pm »
The % of people worldwide using any kind of audiophile power amplifier is so statistically minuscule as to have no bearing on overall consumption. However, when creating laws or policies, there would be no good reason to exempt them. OTOH, every little bit helps.
On the subject of purchasing upscale appliances in the service of energy conservation, green building people refer occasionally to the Platko (sp?) rule whereby one weighs the difference in cost between buying the heat pump dryer or buying the more conventional, less expensive, less efficient one and simply adding one more solar panel to your array. The guy who installed my system says he can add panels to my system for about $.02 per watt. I have 270 watt panels so I might spend $540 for an additional panel vs. spending an extra $800 for the premium dryer. We only use our clothes dryer about 5 months out of the year while the panel would produce all year long. The new air conditioning system will be working at the same times that the dryer is not so my plan is to take advantage of that neat dovetail.

TAULISA

Re: CLASS D
« Reply #16 on: 12 May 2015, 02:50 pm »
Nevertheless it seems to me that all those who are passionate about Hi-End Amplifiers believe that the future lies within these evolving ICE Power modules:




barrows

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Re: CLASS D
« Reply #17 on: 12 May 2015, 03:02 pm »
I now choose a class D amplifier for my system, and power use was a big part of why I switched to class D.  Now, I would not have chosen this amp if it did not meet my needs sonically, and I actually worked on it quite a bit to get it there (this is a DIY Ncore amp).  My previous amplifier was a Pass Labs X150.5, which needed to be left on to sound its best: this equated to over 200 watts being burned all the time.  My class D amp also needs to be left on to sound its best, but at idle it consumes about 1/10th the power of the Pass.
Conservation is the best long term energy use policy to reduce global warming (but we are going to have to do everything if we are to survive).  I line dry as well, and my clothes last a little longer as an additional benefit.

Randy

Re: CLASS D
« Reply #18 on: 12 May 2015, 04:49 pm »
I now choose a class D amplifier for my system, and power use was a big part of why I switched to class D.  Now, I would not have chosen this amp if it did not meet my needs sonically, and I actually worked on it quite a bit to get it there (this is a DIY Ncore amp).  My previous amplifier was a Pass Labs X150.5, which needed to be left on to sound its best: this equated to over 200 watts being burned all the time.  My class D amp also needs to be left on to sound its best, but at idle it consumes about 1/10th the power of the Pass.
Conservation is the best long term energy use policy to reduce global warming (but we are going to have to do everything if we are to survive).  I line dry as well, and my clothes last a little longer as an additional benefit.

Read this.  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/globalwarming/11395516/The-fiddling-with-temperature-data-is-the-biggest-science-scandal-ever.html

macrojack

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Re: CLASS D
« Reply #19 on: 12 May 2015, 05:06 pm »
Read this.  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/globalwarming/11395516/The-fiddling-with-temperature-data-is-the-biggest-science-scandal-ever.html
I followed your link far enough to discover that it is off topic and potentially incendiary. It would be best if you withdrew it.