Something wrong with DSD playback

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 4873 times.

Mitch751

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 60
Something wrong with DSD playback
« on: 25 Apr 2015, 08:57 am »
Hello all

Anyone have tried to play some DSD music with LOI?

Do you find something odd with the soundstage ?

I have tried with three softwares, A+ Pure Music and JRiver 20 all have the same problem however my MyTek 192 DAC does not has the issue.

Let me explain, I have a play of Chesky Sampler for a test of  Introduction and Right and Left Imaging Test, normally soundstage will appear as follows :


     Far Left      Left     Mid Left (between Left speaker and centre)      Center     Mid Right   Right(Speaker)      Far Right     


Now with LIO

     Mid Left      Left     Far Left                                                         Center     Far Right   Right(Speaker)      Mid Right 

You can see that the Mid (between speakers and center position) of Right and Left are swapping the positions with the Far Right and Left (Outstage)





Mitch751

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 60
Re: Something wrong with DSD playback
« Reply #1 on: 25 Apr 2015, 08:58 am »
By the way, when it play PCM format, it does not has that problem

Stange isn't it

Audiophile58

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 139
Re: Something wrong with DSD playback
« Reply #2 on: 25 Apr 2015, 09:48 am »
Hello Vinnie personally I have found a well mastered standard PCM 20/96 or 24/192
To give a a Bigger fuller soundstsge . I have found DSD recordings to not be  Consistent.

One disc may have a glorious midrange and depth,on others uneven balance . the perspective may change per sond.This is why I am glad I didnot start selling off my cd collection.
A properly done DAC  done right and not over filtered sounds Natural -close to vinyl  in that respect
This is what good digital should sound like IMO.

brh

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 102
Re: Something wrong with DSD playback
« Reply #3 on: 26 Apr 2015, 01:09 am »
FWIW (which isn't much, as my DSD playback on LIO has been pretty limited), I haven't noticed any glaring discrepancies between the presentation of DSD playback on LIO vs. my Concero HD.

Vinnie R.

Re: Something wrong with DSD playback
« Reply #4 on: 28 Apr 2015, 05:06 pm »
Hi Mitch751,

I'm back from AXPONA and will be looking into this. 

When we use Audirvana Plus on Macbook into LIO (playing DSD), the sound from both channels is definitely in-phase.

I received your email as well, so let me try again in the next day or two and will respond.

It is indeed strange to hear this because I can't think of anything in the circuitry that would be swapping phase in one channel
only when DSD is played.  It sounds like a software glitch somewhere (not hardware), but let me investigate this...

Vinnie

Mitch751

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 60
Re: Something wrong with DSD playback
« Reply #5 on: 29 Apr 2015, 02:31 am »
Thank you.

Mitch751

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 60
Re: Something wrong with DSD playback
« Reply #6 on: 29 Apr 2015, 04:39 am »
Guess what ? I unplug the power cable overnight and restart it today, strange the problem disappeared.

I am going to let it run for awhile and will keep you posted.

By the way, the DSD sound perfectly and I quite like it. Hope the issue really solved

Thank you

Vinnie R.

Re: Something wrong with DSD playback
« Reply #7 on: 29 Apr 2015, 05:06 am »
Guess what ? I unplug the power cable overnight and restart it today, strange the problem disappeared.

I am going to let it run for awhile and will keep you posted.

By the way, the DSD sound perfectly and I quite like it. Hope the issue really solved

Thank you

Hi Mitch751,

Glad to hear that fixed your problem.

I am currently using Audirvana Plus V.2.0.12 on my Macbook Air, playing a DSD64 track - sounding glorious (David Elias - "Vision of Her").

Under "FREQ" display setting on the LIO front panel, it shows "64" to signify that it is receiving a DSD64 track (playing native DSD).

If you are using Audirvana, make sure in preferences that you set Native DSD Capability: "DSD over PCM standard 1.0"  (don't select "automatic detection" or else I think it converts to PCM).  You can tell via LIO's front panel if you are playing native DSD64 or DSD128. 

I hope this helps,

Vinnie

Mitch751

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 60
Re: Something wrong with DSD playback
« Reply #8 on: 29 Apr 2015, 05:06 am »
Sadly, when I use the remote to change the PHASE , the issue is back and I have to unplug the power cord and to restart it. Now it is back to nomal.

Seem the changing PHRASE causing the problem  :cry:

Vinnie R.

Re: Something wrong with DSD playback
« Reply #9 on: 29 Apr 2015, 05:14 am »
Sadly, when I use the remote to change the PHASE , the issue is back and I have to unplug the power cord and to restart it. Now it is back to nomal.

Seem the changing PHRASE causing the problem  :cry:

Hi Mitch751,

I just confirmed this - thank you.

If you unplug the power cord and plug it back in to the outlet, it will reset your LIO and you won't have the problem with DSD (just don't press the "PHASE" button on the remote). 

We'll need to work this one out....

Vinnie

Mitch751

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 60
Re: Something wrong with DSD playback
« Reply #10 on: 29 Apr 2015, 05:15 am »
Got it. Thank you.

Mitch751

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 60
Re: Something wrong with DSD playback
« Reply #11 on: 29 May 2015, 08:48 am »
After a month listening, really love the sound, however, i spotted today that the right amd left balance only showed three steps instead of 12, needed to reboot to make it back to normal。

Vinnie R.

Re: Something wrong with DSD playback
« Reply #12 on: 29 May 2015, 04:47 pm »
After a month listening, really love the sound, however, i spotted today that the right amd left balance only showed three steps instead of 12, needed to reboot to make it back to normal。

Hi Mitch751,

You won't get the full 12dB (12 steps) of balance control unless the volume setting is above a certain
point.  I believe that point is level 7 or 8.

As you might be aware, we do NOT add any circuitry in the signal path to implement the balance control.
Instead, we offset one of the channel's stepped attenuation settings by a certain number of dB.  Each
Balance "step" is approx. 1dB. 

But if the volume level is not at at least a certain level, it will not give you the full 12dB's (12 steps)
of balance.

Fortunately, most people only need a couple of dB of balance adjustment at the most...

Best regards - from THE Newport Beach Show 2015!

Vinnie

Mitch751

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 60
Re: Something wrong with DSD playback
« Reply #13 on: 30 May 2015, 12:53 am »
Thank you for the reply. I am using only the DAC part and the volume was between 55 to 60. Sometimes it only showed 3 after reboot it is now 12.

I am not sure but I feel that after a period of listening time , sound quality turn to be odd and every reboot helps the sound quality (or to be exact back to normal)

Vinnie R.

Re: Something wrong with DSD playback
« Reply #14 on: 30 May 2015, 06:05 am »
Thank you for the reply. I am using only the DAC part and the volume was between 55 to 60. Sometimes it only showed 3 after reboot it is now 12.

I am not sure but I feel that after a period of listening time , sound quality turn to be odd and every reboot helps the sound quality (or to be exact back to normal)

Hi Mitch,

Very odd - I have never seen or heard of this one.  I'll be happy to take a look at it for you at any time.  Please feel free to email me to discuss.  I want to make sure your LIO is perfect.  I'm glad that when you cycled the power, everything is working fine... but I'm just baffled as to what is going on there.   :?

Thanks,

VInnie




Mitch751

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 60
Re: Something wrong with DSD playback
« Reply #15 on: 1 Jun 2015, 05:35 am »
Thank you for the response. It is nothing urgent and will keep u posted after the shows I know you are quite busy

Just to share a photo about my setup




[/img]

wisnon

Re: Something wrong with DSD playback
« Reply #16 on: 1 Jun 2015, 02:25 pm »
Wow, nice Goldmund electronics there!
Why didn't you opt for Goldmund speakers as well?

Some nice passive Logos speakers should sound good, though I can imagine the B&Ws sound great as well.

Mitch751

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 60
Re: Something wrong with DSD playback
« Reply #17 on: 2 Jun 2015, 12:55 am »
I owned B&W 801S since 1985 then upgraded to 800 signature in 2001 before I bought the whole GOLDMUND System.

Do not know why GOLDMUND did not feed B&W800 signature well

Few months ago the tweeter of the speaker blowed out therefore I swapped them with these Diamond series.

It is working pretty well and LOI also driving my new speakers well

Love the B&W sound and I think I would only replace them with JBL K2 if one day I would like to make change

Vlad_Bath

Re: Something wrong with DSD playback
« Reply #18 on: 1 Jul 2015, 11:23 am »
Hi, Mitch,
in that picture on the right, is that the wonderful and impossible to find Cello Palette?
I always wondered if it brings any noticeable degradation to signal, can you please share your experience?
Thanks,

Vlad

Mitch751

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 60
Re: Something wrong with DSD playback
« Reply #19 on: 1 Jul 2015, 12:26 pm »
Hello Vlad
Yes this is Cello Pallett MIV which I bought in 1999 and also my third CP
I am not good to express in word about how good is it
However I can tell you that I can't listen without it
It is very kind that Vinni made a special version of LIO for me that I can play thru thus CP MIV while I am using LIO as an intergrated amp
It is not easy to find one now as most of them have been bought by audiophiles in China , and I heard that an used one cost around usd25,000