KEF LS50 and Audience The One compared to Omega 3i or Omega 3 Desktop

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 23833 times.

roscoeiii

One of the most surprisingly delightful systems I've heard in the lower price range was a pair of Super 3i and the Audioengine N22 amp, on the desktop, and in a room situation.  In the room situation (two different rooms, one big, one medium/small) I ran with and without sub and the sound was incredible.  The integration with the sub (Klipsch RPW10, a real sleeper) was amazing and the bottom end really tuneful.  On the desktop I found a sub unnecessary but it would have been a nice addition. 

I have a customer who came to hear Omega (he has MacIntosh tube amplification (275 MK5), ClearAudio TT, and Maggie speakers).  I played the little system for him with and without sub and he left with the Super 3is.  When he got the speakers thoroughly broken in (he is now running them on a PS Audio Sprout (Class D) he said for much of his music he left the sub off.  He then bought Super 3XRS for his Mac front end.

Canada Rob, are you an Omega dealer?

rajacat

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 3133
  • Washington State
Why are comparisons of Omega's to other brands not discussed in the Enclosures Circle instead of here?  :scratch:

Canada Rob

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 1063
    • Industry Participant
Canada Rob, are you an Omega dealer?
Yes

JLM

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 9020
  • The elephant normally IS the room
Why are comparisons of Omega's to other brands not discussed in the Enclosures Circle instead of here?  :scratch:

Or better yet at least in the single driver circle where at least the single driver concept is accepted.  Perhaps the overall sales numbers don't warrant mention.  Perhaps Omega posters would rather stay in the friendlier confines of their own thread.  The same could be said of other speaker circles, but a more balanced impression by venturing out would be welcomed. 

The very non-mainstream concept of single driver design keeps the general audio population at bay (just like other non-traditional design concepts).  Couple that with the prevalence of SET amplification that pushes the concept further towards the fringe, cheapy little single driver speakers we're all familiar with, and some huge outlandish cabinets (exemplified by horns) and single driver designs have a lots of stigma to overcome.  Many audiophiles can be described as being closed minded fanatics and certainly this phenomenon adds to the single driver stigma.  Honestly a big part of audio is gear lust and modestly shaped/sized cabinets with a single driver doesn't satisfy that yearning for filling the room with trophies from the big hunts.
« Last Edit: 14 Apr 2015, 02:41 pm by JLM »

roscoeiii

Not to mention the tradeoffs and limitations associated with single driver speakers.

I don't think that this should be pinned on audiophile closed-mindedness. Though that certainly exists, pertaining to both more traditional designs and single driver speakers. 

noway

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 123
...
If anyone listening to speakers with a nearfield set-up wants to see if they can replicate the sound I'm hearing, a good test is in the song, Siberian Khatru, by Yes.  Roughly 3:30 seconds into the song there is an extended note from an electric bass that resonates oddly.  If you listen with headphones, you won't hear the resonance.  ...

I don't listen in the nearfield and the song sounds heavily processed.  Not the place to look for natural sounding anything.  But I don't hear anything jarring on the note.  Seems to fit right in with the rest of the song.  My version is HDTracks 5760 kbps and 192 kHz so version might matter.

JLM

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 9020
  • The elephant normally IS the room
Not to mention the tradeoffs and limitations associated with single driver speakers.

I don't think that this should be pinned on audiophile closed-mindedness. Though that certainly exists, pertaining to both more traditional designs and single driver speakers.

Agreed (didn't want to get into the limitations, but as I've mentioned before there is no perfect speaker).

Flinx99

I don't listen in the nearfield and the song sounds heavily processed.  Not the place to look for natural sounding anything.  But I don't hear anything jarring on the note.  Seems to fit right in with the rest of the song.  My version is HDTracks 5760 kbps and 192 kHz so version might matter.

Thanks for checking.  I actually have the same HDTracks version.  I tested that and a CD rip I did in AIFF, but both produced the same results.  I did have higher expectations for the whole album with decent equipment, but I was disappointed.  I have heard that there are some pretty bad mixes of this album, which is a bummer.  It really appears that the issue with the sound only occurs with nearfield listening.  Another member tried it with dual-driver speakers (with a crossover) and heard the odd sound.  He also tried a similar scenario by stepping up close to his Omega Outlaws and he said that if anyone told him that he was listening to the same note, he would have laughed.  A friend of mine could replicate the same issue with a pair of Audioengine A2s in nearfield (he thanked me profusely for pointing this out to him----he used to love the song), which are also dual-driver speakers, so I am really leaning towards a single-driver solution.  At this point, the Omegas seem like a no-brainer for me.

Flinx99

Or better yet at least in the single driver circle where at least the single driver concept is accepted.  Perhaps the overall sales numbers don't warrant mention.  Perhaps Omega posters would rather stay in the friendlier confines of their own thread.  The same could be said of other speaker circles, but a more balanced impression by venturing out would be welcomed. 

The very non-mainstream concept of single driver design keeps the general audio population at bay (just like other non-traditional design concepts).  Couple that with the prevalence of SET amplification that pushes the concept further towards the fringe, cheapy little single driver speakers we're all familiar with, and some huge outlandish cabinets (exemplified by horns) and single driver designs have a lots of stigma to overcome.  Many audiophiles can be described as being closed minded fanatics and certainly this phenomenon adds to the single driver stigma.  Honestly a big part of audio is gear lust and modestly shaped/sized cabinets with a single driver doesn't satisfy that yearning for filling the room with trophies from the big hunts.

I didn't realize I was searching for a single driver solution until I posted here.  I certainly didn't know there was a circle devoted to single drivers, or enclosures for that matter.   :D

I just want to buy once.  My current speakers sound decent and if it wasn't for the distortion I hear in certain frequencies, I would be content for a good while.  I think nearfield listening may actually be quite forgiving----you are able to achieve soundstage and imaging from speakers that I don't believe will do this from a "normal" listening position.  Mine certainly won't.  When I back up from the speakers, the odd distortions go away, but so does the soundstage.  Canada Rob completely changed my troubleshooting direction when he mentioned "phase misalignment". 

I posted already leaning towards Omegas.  I've read great stuff about them, but there is unfortunately not a lot written.  I like that they are made in the US and I especially like that they are made in New England.  I have family probably a half hour from where they're made (not relevant, I know, but maybe I'll pop by the next time I visit my aunt and uncle  :)). 

The other speakers I referenced are supposed to perform at the same level as speakers much more expensive.  They are also speakers that would probably appeal to folks who listen in the same manner as me.  I can't listen to any of these speakers prior to purchasing them, so finding folks that own Omegas and have heard the others, or, better yet, owned the others and switched to Omega Super 3is, is my next best option.

I know I'm not buying a car, but I am trying to buy something I'll keep longer than a car (I've had mine for ten years----it runs well and I'm happy with the stereo).

I am quite happy to embrace a single driver design.

DaveC113

  • Industry Contributor
  • Posts: 4043
  • ZenWaveAudio.com
I've heard most every single driver speaker on the market, some in the high 5 figure range from Voxativ, Feastrex and AES, the Omegas will not be embarrassed by any of them but the Omegas will definitely embarrass every other speaker anywhere near their price. Multi way speakers generally need to be in the 5 figure price range to compete in many aspects of speaker performance.Omega is one of the best values you will find in audio.

Wind Chaser

Multi way speakers generally need to be in the 5 figure price range to compete in many aspects of speaker performance.

Would you be willing to elaborate on that?

Canada Rob

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 1063
    • Industry Participant
I don't listen in the nearfield and the song sounds heavily processed.  Not the place to look for natural sounding anything.  But I don't hear anything jarring on the note.  Seems to fit right in with the rest of the song.  My version is HDTracks 5760 kbps and 192 kHz so version might matter.
I must clarify when I listened to that piece, it wasn't on Omega speakers. It was on an Altec ATP3 2.1 system.  I clearly heard the problem Flinx99 was hearing, a kind of brief boom to the bass.  I've now tried it on an Omega based desktop system and it didn't seem to have any problem that jumped out at me.  I still heard it though, but to a lesser degree.  The Yes Band seemed to favour the bass lines to be in a higher key which tends to add a slight bloat.  Roundabout's tight and articulate bass lines are quite high up the scale for bass.

Flinx99

I must clarify when I listened to that piece, it wasn't on Omega speakers. It was on an Altec ATP3 2.1 system.  I clearly heard the problem Flinx99 was hearing, a kind of brief boom to the bass.  I've now tried it on an Omega based desktop system and it didn't seem to have any problem that jumped out at me.  I still heard it though, but to a lesser degree.  The Yes Band seemed to favour the bass lines to be in a higher key which tends to add a slight bloat.  Roundabout's tight and articulate bass lines are quite high up the scale for bass.

Thanks for checking again.  I just listened to Roundabout and sure enough, while not as pronounced as in Siberian Khatru, I can hear similar distortions.  Did these guys write some of the music to mess with their engineer? :D  It only exists in nearfield----headphones played the notes flawlessly (I used Sennheiser HD 598s) and when I stepped back about 12 feet or so the notes sounded normal.  The problem with this sound is that once you notice it, you begin to hear it in other music.  Thankfully not in all music, though.

When you were listening to the Omega desktop set-up, did you happen to step back from the desktop to give a listen outside of nearfield range?

Is it fair say that in order to categorize a speaker as "reference desktop capable", it must pass what will henceforth be known as the "Siberian Khatru Nearfield Test"?   :)
« Last Edit: 14 Apr 2015, 09:47 pm by Flinx99 »

Canada Rob

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 1063
    • Industry Participant
Would you be willing to elaborate on that?
Gladly,

Maybe Dave will chime in too.

These experiences go back as early as 1990.  Yes, I realize aural memory is considered by many to be zilch, so I'll consider them correct.  However, the memory of the experience and what it did for/against my enjoyment of it will likely be etched in my memory as long as I have one.  It's not my habit to mention other brands negatively but this thread in particular leaves me no choice.  The following experiences are in professionally set up sound rooms of dealers.  In 1990 in Victoria, B.C. in their best sound room I heard the $3500 (1990 money) Linn Kaber with top of the line Linn front end.  They were great, but lit my fire less than any Omega.  In 1996 in Kelowna, B.C. I was in a friends store listening to a pair of $4000 (1996 money) Martin Logans with Parasound front end. Same experience.  2003 in Lethbridge Alberta, PMC towers with Musical fidelity front end.  Nice, but not Omega.  Around 2005 in Lethbridge Alberta, $5000 Martin Logans on two occasions, one with high end Naim gear, and the other with high end YBA gear.  Same experience.  Don't get me wrong, it all sounded great but to my ear Omega gets so much closer to the music, so much closer to "live".

I would take a basic Decware Super Zen and a pair of Super 3i (let alone Omegas higher models) over any of that aforementioned audio gear and save myself about $10,000+ in the meantime.  Not to mention, the superior build quality of the Omega speakers is an added bonus, ditto Decware and many of the audio underground products available today.

Flinx99

I've heard most every single driver speaker on the market, some in the high 5 figure range from Voxativ, Feastrex and AES, the Omegas will not be embarrassed by any of them but the Omegas will definitely embarrass every other speaker anywhere near their price. Multi way speakers generally need to be in the 5 figure price range to compete in many aspects of speaker performance.Omega is one of the best values you will find in audio.

Thanks.  I am encouraged by what I've read in this thread and I feel comfortable with an Omega purchase.  Loyal owners are definitely a plus.

RDavidson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2491
.....and before the train goes off the tracks, let's keep things in perspective : We are all entitled to our own experiences and opinions of them. Good thing we have lots of gear to chose from and can decide what is best for our individual needs / preferences. The key is to explore and gather as much personal experience as possible. :thumb:

FireGuy

Thanks.  I am encouraged by what I've read in this thread and I feel comfortable with an Omega purchase.  Loyal owners are definitely a plus.

I too was encouraged by loyal owners of Omegas on this forum.  Which is why I bought a pair and consider their speakers exceptional, across the board.    Other loyal owners and their selected gear also abound, and I find that encouraging as well.

JLM

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 9020
  • The elephant normally IS the room
Single driver speakers have a coherence that few multi-driver speakers can match (the best in my 40+ years beyond the obvious single driver speakers are small 2-ways, mostly active designs that tend to have more sophisticated crossovers).  Different drivers of different designs in different locations with usually far less than perfect crossovers just can't completely blend.  Listening near-field this is a critical issue for me. 

Single driver designs also seem to be more musical to me.  Frankly most multi-driver speakers don't hold my interest with their disjointed/hi-fi sound and I walk out within seconds of show rooms. 

Over the years highly defined imaging has become more important to me.  Again most multi-driver designs (again, except some small 2-ways) don't seem to image well. 

Wind Chaser

We are all entitled to our own experiences and opinions of them.

Absolutely! And I can appreciate that Dave was merely expressing his own personal opinion. However I'm still interested in the specifics, particularly what he meant by "many aspects of speaker performance" in the context of the rest of his statement.


Flinx99

This is how I want to set up a pair of Super 3is (I think these would work better for me than the Desktop version).  If anyone has a similar setup with Super 3is, I would really appreciate some feedback on Siberian Khatru by Yes.  If the bass notes sound clear throughout the song, I will be psyched.  I've got a sub off to the right side of the room in the corner, but I don't think it is contributing much to the sound issue----I really think the bass notes are above where I crossover the sub.

Thanks.

Here's a link to my system:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=systems;area=browse;system=2118