[Tonto Yoder]

About 6 months ago, I  replaced an HP with an Epson C84 printer--the test page at the store printed nicely and it was just $100.  But maintenance seems required much more often since it goes out of alignment every couple weeks (inconvenient, but no BIG deal). The major problem is that it goes through ink seemingly much faster than the HP: the $100 printer quickly needed 3 color carts @ $12/each and a black cart @ $25. The black cart just ran out again.  I tried to save a little $$ by using a generic refill cart, but the Epson refused to use it. Faced now with the imminent expenditure of another $61 for ink, I'm thinking of going back to HP.

[Andrew JC]

Tonto, Depending on your use you may want to take a look at Canon printers. The refills are cheap and it's an excellent all around printer for home use.

[Levi]

About 6 months ago, I  replaced an HP with an Epson C84 printer--the test page at the store printed nicely and it was just $100.  But maintenance seems required much more often since it goes out of alignment every couple weeks (inconvenient, but no BIG deal). The major problem is that it goes through ink seemingly much faster than the HP: the $100 printer quickly needed 3 color carts @ $12/each and a black cart @ $25. The black cart just ran out again.  I tried to save a little $$ by using a generic refill  ...

I use Epson Photo printers and they do consume ink more than the Canon.  I personally like Epson higher model for Photo printing.   I am not sure if you print photo quality pictures extensively, but there are companies out there e.g. Lumiflow that retrofit individual external ink tanks with @8-6oz each for magenta, black, yellow...etc.  This gives you losts of savings if you print color all the time.  Canon will be the next on my list if Epson goes out of business.  

This is just an example:


Levi

[nathanm]

I have a love\hate relationship with Epson printers.  On one hand they make great images but they screw you with their bullshit chips and lame, wasteful cartridges filled with a couple drops of ink.  If you really want to print out a lot of stuff your best bet is a CIS (continuous inking system) which is a third-party doohickey which replaces the cartridges in the printer with some surgical hosing connected to 4oz. bottles of bulk ink which will likely last years in a home setting.  (you can even get it in gallons! ) Now here's the big catch: You really need to print something, anything, at least once a week or you run the risk of the ink drying out like mine.  It can be fixed but it ain't fun.  But the cost savings is HUGE.  I've got our work printer (Epson 1280) running a CIS and I am sure the company would be bakrupt if we were using cartridges!  

They lure you in with a cheap printer but when you go to buy ink for the thing they've got yer nuts in a vice.  Thank goodness for hackers!

Ahh dammit, Levi beat me to it.  Yeah, what he said!

[dogberry]

I love my C84.  I have never had a problem with it and I buy the hicap black carts from the web for dirt cheap.  They perform great.  Awesome inkjet!

[gongos]

Stay away. Break down, use too much ink.

[Rob Babcock]

I love my Epson (an R300 with the CD printing carrier).  They do try to screw you over with the chips in the carts, but I have an electronic chip resetter and it works perfectly.

BTW, just where could I get that adapter doohickey to suck ink right from the bottles?  That would totally rock!

At any rate, my Epson has much, much better print quality than my HP, especially with pictures.

Levi:  just which cart/printer is that CIS for (the one you have pictured?).  If I couldn't get one for my particular Epson it'd be worth buying whichever model has them.

[bubba966]

Epson has too many mechanical problems, and as has already been mentioned, they go through ink cartridges as if they grew on trees.

Canon's aren't as bad as far as the ink cartridges are concerned. But they've got their fair share of mechanical problems as well.

HP's are the least problematic, and don't go through ink nearly as fast.

When I worked at Costco in the 'puter/electronics department, I saw a lot of Epson's, Canon's, Lexmark's, & HP's go out the door. And saw a whole hell of a lot of Epson's & Canon's come back non-operational. A good amount of the Lexmark's came back from lack of functioning software. And on the rare occasion an HP came back, it usually wasn't because it was broke (was usually to trade up to a better model).

[bubba966]

Oh, and I should mention that the HP I'm still using (820 Cxi) while 8 or 9 years old now, still works great. I've run over 20,000 sheets through it over the years, and never had a paper jam or any other mechanical problem.

I get around 2,000-2,500 pages out of a black cart, and 300 or so full color pages out of the color cart. Both carts are in the $25-$30 range depending on where you purchase them.

[Rob Babcock]

I guess YMMV, Bubba.  My brother & I have both had Epsons & HPs for a long time- the Epsons have been solid as a rock, but as long as I live I'll never buy another HP printer.  It's just not worth the trouble, in my experience.  And don't even get me started on HP printer software!

[8thnerve]

The dirt cheap Epson R200 is one of my best buddies now.  Yes, it swallows ink like Jenna Jameson, and is finicky and pissy.  But for $99 I get GREAT photos, fast and sharp documents, and this thing prints directly onto printable CD-Rs and DVD-Rs (which is tres cool).  I also have a big color laser workgroup printer next to me, but it hardly gets any use anymore.

And as far as the cost of ink...  why do you think the printers are so cheap, they are essentially disposable.  Case in point.  Epson R200 $99 with ink, replace all 6 (!) inks, $89.  Minolta Magicolor Desklaser 2200, cost $599 with toner, replace all toners $625.  All printers are like that.  Just like console gaming systems.  Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo make hardly anything on their systems, but BOATLOADS on the games.  It's all about consumables!

[orthobiz]

I won't talk about softare so I won't get Babcock started, but...

Ever since my very first black ink HP printer (like when it had a name without a model number), I noticed that replacing the cartridge equals replacing the nozzle. Therefore, new cartridge, new nozzle.

I have a three year old 970 CSe HP and it still works well, although I don't have a big photo requirement. I'm just trying to keep one going so my three daughters can print out stuff for school.

So, they have their "free" Epson printers that came with their Mac computers and damned if they don't always dry out and need to run their flushing software. As described, getting them to work just ain't pretty.

So now we are all networked, software BUILT INTO THE MAC SYSTEM (sorry Rob, I said "software") and they all work wirelessly printing to my HP single printer without any problem ever.

Plus, at home and in my office I have 5 twelve or fourteen year old Laserwriter Pro printers that you just can't stop even with a bullet. HP's for me rule.

Problems: best site ever:
fixyourownprinter.com.
Saved my butt on more than one occasion.

biz

Did I say "software?"

[Rob Babcock]

Okay, orthobiz- you can "say" software, but just this once!    It's funny to see the wide range of experiences people have with printers (and everything else, I guess).  There are tools specifically made to deal with HPs hideous printer software, and even with these tools their stuff can still be a nightmare.  Case in point:  when I installed my last HP printer onto my then-new HP PC, is worked like a dream, no probs at all.  But when I had to reinstall the OS (along with all the other stuff from my restore discs) the friggin' printer stuff didn't want to install right.  And even now several months later the damn thing still isn't working right.  HP printers are legendary for stuff like this.

On the plus side, the ink cart is "dumb" and easy to refill (ie no chip).  And it prints okay.  On the minus side, I really hate the 180 degree paper path of virtually all the HP machine I've seen, and they don't make a printer that I know of that'll print on CD-Rs (man, my Epson is slick with printable CDs & DVDs).

I guess I shouldn't dog the HPs, but I've been so much happier with Epson.  Not that I wouldn't try anything else.  I'd really dig a printer that printed as well as my Epson & had the same straight paper path but with cheaper carts (that are dumb & easy to refill).

BTW, I'd still love some info on that CIS dealie.

[nathanm]

I've used two different kinds of CIS.  The one I use at home is like the one pictured in Levi's post.  I believe nomorecarts.com makes these although I was always confused about who actually makes these things.  Anyway, I got mine here:  http://www.inkjetart.com/cis/

mediastreet.com sells a CIS which is pre-filled, meaning that it comes with ink already in it and you just plunk it down.  However, their mounting hardware for the hosing sucks IMO.  The inkjetart model you have to prime first with a syringe but it is nice to have that thing because if you get air bubbles in there you are screwed.  The key is: never never remove the carts without first pinching off the feeder tubes with a heavy duty paper clip!  I learned that lesson the hard way.  Once an air pocket gets in there it is hard to get out again.

It's pricey, but in the long run I wouldn't wanna do it any other way.  Think about how much you'd pay for like a 5-pack of magic markers and then think what you're paying for a damn inkjet cartridge - it's total insanity.

[orthobiz]

Does Epson make a printer where the print cartridge has the print head on it? Maybe a fixed print head is the reason people think the Epson print quality is better. I'm trying to get my kids to print out a page every week or so to keep the print heads on the Epsons flowing freely...

biz

[nathanm]

Does Epson make a printer where the print cartridge has the print head on it?

Nope, not as far as I know.

I'm trying to get my kids to print out a page every week or so to keep the print heads on the Epsons flowing freely...

Very good idea.  You can hold down thepage feed button whilst turning the printer on and it will print out a nozzle check.  Don't even need to turn on the computer.  That's the unfortunate compromise you have to make when dealing with ink that dries so fast as is squeezed through microscopic holes.  If these inks took say like 10 minutes to dry and you had to be careful not to touch them when they came out the ink clogging problems would probably go away, but...that would be kind of inconvenient too.

Another caveat with a CIS: an Epson printer thinks it is more clevver than you.  So even though you've got a tank 'o ink pumping into the thing there's an internal counter which will flip its bitch switch after awhile and tell you the ink is out.  You will also get periodic naggings about "these cartridges aren't original, do you wish to continue?" blah blah blah.  You just have to power down for a while in the 1st instance and the second one just involves smacking down a silly dialog box.

[Rob Babcock]

One of the links you gave, Nathanm, shows a CIS that claims to have an electronic chip that essentially always reads as full.  That kit is $450 ( ) but it would almost be worth it never to have to mess with the "low ink warning" crap again.

Aside from those minor issues, is the CIS feed totally reliable & trouble free, assuming you make sure to use it regularly?

[nathanm]

Yes, I would say so.  The one we use at work obviously gets pounded with lots of color proofs so it's rarely had nozzle clogging problems.  But mine at home sat unused for weeks and months at a time and that is not a good thing!  Keep air out of the hoses and you're golden.  My cyan ink was actuallyy sludgey and gooey on the bottom it sat so long.  Ack!

[drphoto]

I'm a big Epson fan. I've had the 1200, the 1280 (two of 'em in fact) and now the big daddy of all printers the 4000.

The 4000 rivals even the LightJet for photo quality.(the Lightjet is a $100K or more system that uses lasers to expose conventional photo paper, rather than ink) I'm amazed at the quality of the stock profiles on the 4000. I'm getting very acceptable greyscale images w/ the stock profiles which is almost unheard of w/ inkjet printers. One of my 1280's did it great and the one could never be beaten into submission. I even resorted to converting the 1200 to the 'hexachrome' all grey ink setup. But that was a giant pain in the butt.


I've had the continous flow inking systems on the 1200 and both 1280's. (via inkjetmall.com.....a great bunch to deal with BTW) If you print a lot....this is the way to go. Your ink cost become almost negligible. The kit is around $200-$250. I had a former assistant who was an art student print up a show. She must have run close to a 100 11x14 prints and didn't put much of a dent in those 4 oz. ink bottles. If using regular factory cartridges it would have been a serious chunk of change.

The Canon's are really fast, but I think their print quality is not quite up to the best of the Epsons. Epson's are notoriously slow. The 4000 is one of their faster models and it still takes 5 or 6 minutes to run an 8x10 at high res.

Oh BTW.....the inkjetmall guys have gotten past the Epson chip issues....it's all good now. But yes, you do have to print something every few days or face some really annoying clogs.

[Rob Babcock]

Thanks, drphoto.  I'm a little too tapped out right now, but asap I'll give that a shot.  Wonder if my R300 can use that type of thing?  I'd buy a new printer if need be- I could use my current Epson for just discs, with the CIS setup for  everything else.

I do sometimes go a couple weeks without using the printer, but of course I could just print something every day or two to keep the ink running.  It'd be a small price to pay for breaking the monopoly on ink!